Aspies with Borderline Personality Disorder?

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^^ To the above... it does have a stigma attached because so many with it have been labelled as manipulative and vicious.
I once went on a forum for the relatives and partners and ex partners of those with Bpd, and I was appalled at some of the stories there, and the bitterness felt by those who had associated with someone with bpd.

I also agree that spirituality can help a great deal with some of the issues, as weird as that might sound.

One of the other, more particular hallmarks of BPD is chronic emptiness. BPD sufferers don't have any sense of themselves, what they want, or what they should be doing. They use other people as crutches, in a way, to give them some sense of identity and purpose, which they're incapable of providing themself. This is why they fear abandonment - without the person, they're back to being empty and aimless. They can't tolerate being alone. The points made about the tail wagging the dog (rejection fostering fears of rejection) make some sense, in that BPD people are probably frequently rejected when their partner picks up on their neediness and volatility. I can see where there is some overlap between BPD and apsies (or social phobics or depressed people). There are likely many aspies with BPD, so the lines are blurred in some cases.

I can get behind *feelings of emptiness* -but I never ever wanted anyone to give me an identity. OMG - that would be the worst thing I could ever imagine. I've fought tooth and nail to BE exactly who I am in spite of the world's trying to make me into one of the mindless lemmings. Another thing - never used anyone as a crutch - if anything they used me as their scapegoat till I got wise to their antics . And that's it. It's a messed up way to be - and it needs to seen as living in hell. Cause I have a feeling that's exactly what it is. Being in the hell of your own mind without a life jacket or the strength to keep treading water.

If you don't mind being alone and don't seek emotional anchor from other people, I don't see how you could be borderline, and I'd have to question the diagnosis. It's really those traits that lead to all the other diagnostic criteria. Emptiness can be explained just as well by depression or a number of other things.

The literature does mention that BPD people can also fear engulfment. Because their sense of self is so tenuous, they may fear losing it when in a relationship. All the same, they still prefer to be in relationships, they're just push-pull about it. They want validation and definition, but fear losing control to it.

It's worth mentioning that BPD is probably one of the more abstract and subjective diagnoses in the DSM. Schizophrenics have delusions, depressives have anhedonia, OCD individuals have obsessions and compulsions, but BPD criteria aren't so black and white.

There are most likely autistic people who have a borderline personality disorder at the same time. I mean, you can get... I would have said you can get fleas and lice at the same time, but this comparison sounds somewhat negative.

However, I made the experience that characteristics of BPD and ASD are similar on the surface. A friend of mine has a borderline personality and our actions, likes and dislikes and even some symptoms are similar! The things is, behind the obvious statements there are very opposite reasons for the behaviour and the thoughts of a person. Like day and night or fire and water... you get the picture.

So, yeah, if a psychologist/psychiatrist doesn't know autistic and doesn't get into detail and discusses the reasons behind the behaviour, someone with Asperger's can end up as being labeled not with autism, but with a borderline personalty disorder. Happened to me almost. But seeing as I know my friend, I also realise that's one of the worst mistakes that can happened in misdiagnosing.

I was diagnosed with bpd over 11 years ago when I had some sort of psychotic episode having moved to London and been working in theatre etc. It is difficult to know really. At the time I was VERY self destructive, but the reasons were frustration and an all out anger because I was caught in a sort of love/hate thing with my mother who would constantly criticise me for my lifestyle etc and was incredibly overprotective of me.

Once I left her, the self harm almost stopped and I became, to a degree more stable.

I note that at the time I was Dx'd with that, I spent almost all my time alone, had one friend, had never had a relationship and absorbed myself in obsessive interests. Maybe my mother was the one I depended on, I don't know?

I think when childhood abuse is involved it can be very tricky, and one is bound to end up with one issue or another from that unless made of solid steel... the mind is a delicate machine.

These days, I only self harm, again, from rage when things overwhelm me. But I have lost count of the times I have asked myself, is this Bpd? I know I have some traits because I have become dependent on the human contact I find on the internet and almost all of my 'rages' come as a result of losing that for in my real, day to day life, I do not connect to anyone really and live alone.

I prefer being alone. The idea of losing my 'own world in my head' is quite unnerving, and with relationships, it can be difficult to find that balance between being too detached and being too attached. Is that bpd? Who can say. It is an issue, that is enough for me to know.

I have eye contact issues, I cannot approach people unless there is a good reason for me to say something, I keep to myself, I stim, I hoard and obsess over things and I have done since a child and I score very high on all the online tests.

So maybe one can have AS and bpd or maybe someone with AS who is undiagnosed and has added complications can come to carry some of the bpd traits.

I do know that those on the support site for relatives of those with bpd told me they did not believe I had it as I behaved so differently to the usual.

Either way, the tag does carry a nasty stigma and I have worked hard to try and erase most of the things that might be construed as bpd traits.

My gp thinks I am most likely AS and I guess I shall soon find out after my assessment.

I was diagnosed with several personality disorders over a year ago, and a fortnight ago with aspergers. My shrink's theory is that the stress of dealing with undiagnosed aspergers where no-one made allowances for me is what might have caused the personality disorders at a young age.

But if you want a personality disorder that looks almost identical to aspergers, try avoidant personality disorder. (I've been diagnosed with that one too!)

Very true. Mental health professionals aren't that enthusiastic about working with BPD patients, from what I've read. They're seen as emotionally trying, and difficult to make any progress with. Therapists often feel manipulated by them. Best to avoid being labeled BPD if at all possible.

My complaints during that time were chronic depression, suicidal feelings and the inability to endure relationships.....3 shrinks (iirc) gave me that dx in spite of my not meeting the other criteria....<shrugs>

My 17 yr old daughter was also dx with BPD, and even went through this thing called dialectical behavior therapy. She didnt have it of course and we wasted thousands on a treatment that was a joke. She is AS all the way. The school where she was tested just didnt want to figure out the problem anymore so they labeled her with that.

I wouldn't hold much merit to a diagnosis. I have about 8 different diagnosis's myself.

There are certainly many aspects of Avoidant Personality Disorder I can identify with, and several similar traits to AS. However, the problem with APD in particular, is how do you clearly distinguish cause and effect, I mean how do you distinguish between a case of extreme shyness, or anxiety/depression, or a PDD like AS, and that of just APD? My own personal view of Personality Disorders is that they should be best left as a last resort diagnosis, where there is an absence of any PDD or affective disorder to explain such problems. A PDD like AS gives you a framework to work round, to understand the difficulties you have, and to make the life adjustments you need so you hopefully don't feel like you have APD, and the presence of an affective disorder means there is a treatable cause for your behaviour.

The the wikipedia article on "Love-shyness" is also interesting, I think many AS males can strongly identify with that also.

8? Why does nothing about modern science surprise me anymore? Oh well, it's funny if you can see the humor in the tragedy.....

Sorry to dig this thread out of the grave, but I actually found it while searching for information on comorbid AS and BPD. I'd been wondering for a while if I had BPD, but never really seriously considered it because most of the really crazy stuff I did was when I was a teenager, and by definition the behaviors have to continue on into adulthood to be BPD. However... I live with another aspie and a different person who is borderline (and DEFINITELY not an aspie). I have a lot in common with the other aspie, but I also have a lot in common with the borderline. I looked at the diagnostic criteria again, talked with my roomie about it, and our similarities are striking.

I don't have an official dx of AS, but I'm going to get one when my insurance goes into effect in a couple weeks. I'd like to find somebody who can help me with both AS and borderline issues, since they are very much entangled with each other.

It is possible for somebody to have both. I found a thing online (sorry, can't remember where) that summarized BPD in this way:

There is an intense fear of abandonment with this disorder that interferes with many aspects if the individual's life. This fear often acts as a self-fulfilling prophecy as they cling to others, are very needy, feel helpless, and become overly involved and immediately attached. When the fear of abandonment becomes overwhelming, they will often push others out of their life as if trying to avoid getting rejected. The cycle most often continues as the individual will then try everything to get people back in his or her life and once again becomes clingy, needy, and helpless.

This describes me perfectly, but it's intensified because I don't know how to meet people and form relationships on my own, so when I get attached to somebody, I get REALLY attached to them. Of course, being completley socially ret*d, I don't know how to properly show people that I care about them, so they freak out and leave me. And it goes on and on.

I talked with my borderline friend recently about the cutting, and we came to the conclusion that the motivation behind it is what differentiates borderline cutting from aspie cutting, but it's hard for me to know what the motivation behind aspie cutting vs. borderline cutting is. Sometimes I do it because it's the only thing that will calm me down, and sometimes I do it because I want people to notice that I'm really not doing well and I don't know how to tell them otherwise.

But again, there's so much overlap between BPD and AS that it's hard to know if there really are two issues with me. Maybe it's like how pneumonia can be caused by two completely different pathogens? Either way, I have the symptoms and meet the criteria for both, there's just no way to tell if my outbursts of anger are my short aspie fuse or the BPD rage.

I've been thinking about this issue a lot. I dated someone who had been diagnosed as BPD and this was a crazy dynamic in our relationship. However someone else I had dated a few years back had stated that she thought that I had BPD. So this girl that I dated who had been diagnosed and obviously fit all of the criteria.....she became something of a mirror to me. I started to understand why I would seem to have this. In particular something she made me realize is that BPD can be thought of as something like an addiction to emotions. This made more and more sense the longer we were together. We could not have a normal interaction...it was always mediated by emotional extremes. This became my understanding of BPD that the emotional addiction gets in the way of real interaction..... So it didn't work out.... But since then I have more and more noticed these tendencies in myself. I don't exhibit the classic push pull relationship tendencies necessarily but I feel like I do at times become addicted to emotions of different varieties and when I am not experiencing these I feel somewhat lost or empty. So I was thinking that maybe the sort of isolation that AS brings on can perhaps naturally lead one to be more inclined toward such a dependency on one's emotions for meaning and fulfillment. ...... as opposed to finding meaning in relationships I suppose. And perhaps with classical or pure BPD the primary source of the emotional "fix" is through tumultuous relationship dynamics whereas with someone with AS it might present in a slightly different form ....

Borderline Personality means being borderline between neurotic and insane. Why many of them get sent to prison and hospitalised is because they can have delusions,along with self harming behaviours and being aggressive towards others.

There is no particular connection between BPD and AS at all. There is, however, between Schizotypical and Schizoid Personality Disorder.