Are there any true geniuses here? (IQ over 155)
If you are an Aspie Genius, do you think you're being underutilized by society, an Einstein who is writing new theories of matter in between helping customers at the mini mart, but who couldn't become a real researcher because of AS? Do you write novels in between working three jobs-at age 18? Do people call you arrogant because you make them look like intellectual midgets? (Not that they aren't intellectual midgets, but being in the presence of somebody who isn't is rather disconcerting for them.)
Do you find yourself adrift in a sea of idiots to the point where you want to pull your hair out, because they JUST DON'T GET IT after having the obvious explained to them a million times? (I suppose that is how it would feel to be a Ron Paul supporter at the 2008 Democratic National Convention.) Do you just want to disappear into your special interests and a cabin in Montana? What is it like to be an Aspie Genius?
Two points:
1. The Mensa Criterion is being in the 95th percentile or higher by a standardized IQ test.
2. IQ does not tell the whole story about genius and intelligence. Richard Feynman one the the great physicists of the 20 th century and a genius at physics scored 125 on a standardized IQ test.
ruveyn
Proves my point. Ever read about him? Feynman was practically an Aspie.
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FYI
be aware that there are at least three different scales for IQ. If you once scored 148-150 that's on an obsolete scale. If you ever scored 178 it's bogus. The official is the one mensa is using these days. The spread is 15%. If you score 130 on the new scale, you're within the 2% most clever ppl in the world an d qualify for mensa membership. (whoever wants that).
cheers
I've been reading all the articles linked to on the homepage of the Davidson Academy of Nevada, a school for those whose IQs are in the top 0.1% of humans, and it got me thinking, thus this thread. I believe the Academy's homepage is at http://www.davidsonacademy.unr.edu/ . The school's benefactor pioneered educational computer software and got VERY rich, and decided he was gonna play Medici and be a patron to geniuses as the merchant princes had funded artists and composers, thus this school. If you comb through the articles in the "press room", the thing that stands out is how uniform "genius" is.
1) A genius is an autodidact, he talks a LOT about intricate details of what he knows, as opposed to "rambling".
2) He thinks "out of the box", consistently.
3) He hates authority, sees the structures that give normals meaning as useless regimentation holding him back.
4) He has a broad AND deep base of knowledge. He not only knows a lot, but knows a lot about a lot.
There may be a few others that I can't think of off the top of my head. While aspies tend to be autodidacts, they talk obsessively about a single subject, as opposed to ranging from classical music to medieval history in one chat, AND knowing a lot about those and everything in between. Aspie hatred of authority seems to me to be more based on our mistreatment at the hands of those who have no business being in authority yet inexplicably are, including parents and teachers and psychiatrists, than on being too regimented. In fact, the aspie LOVES regimentation, and is usually lost without it. A genius will view a strict schedule as being for little people. Thomas Edison repeatedly expressed this sentiment. People with AS seem to be no more prone to out of the box thinking than regular NTs, as seen in some of the posts on this board.
The thing is, the parents will just KNOW their kid is a genius, and eventually other people see that there IS something different about the kid. Today, people who work with kids are jaded to parent claims of exceptionalism, every parent thinks their kid is Einstein. In one interview the school founder said that most high schools see ONE genius kid every TWENTY YEARS! Some of the small towns where some students come from have NEVER seen it, in the whole history of the town, which usually dates back more than 100 years.
Parents of truly genius kids have to deal with the legions of educators trying to shake them back to "normalcy", screaming YOU'RE NUTS, THE KID IS JUST A KID! Everybody insists that a kid is a kid, and eventually the parent is liable to agree, since when you're the only one who sees the genius, you start to think that maybe you ARE nuts. Americans tend to hate intellectual exceptions. Music or painting is fine. But true intelligence is to be feared.
This may be the inner witch hunter in every American, in a country which has repeatedly experienced purges or attempted purges of people who were seen as just slightly off kilter, because they were thought to be possessed by demons or because of unusual political or religious belief, usually. Americans are a God Fearing people, and tend to see the influence of evil everywhere. The mentally ill are possessed. Autistics are possessed. Communists are doing the work of the devil.
Maybe deep down there is a suspicion that the genius has sold his soul to the devil for his intellectual gifts. Periodically, an exceptional person will have this claim made about him. It was made about Bill Gates in the 1990s. An exceptional blues musician during the Depression (whose name I can't remember) had it made about him, and he tried to play on it, refusing to confirm or deny it, and inserting references to Southern witch lore in his songs-he once sang "there's a hell hound on my trail", folklore talks of Satan taking the shape of a black dog. I once read a book on paranormal mysteries that took these claims deadly seriously, especially the blues musician.
Sometimes I wonder how a country like America ever became a world power-some places here are more like Africa where you have spells to invoke or ward off magic and people carrying around amulets to ward off evil, some places have a custom of putting those little feng shui mirrors over doorways, in a corruption of true Chinese belief.
Pezar, that's cool. If you don't mind this question, why do you find the Davidson Academy so interesting? What if we were able to interview the alumni and current students? What kind of answers do you think they could provide us? We could compare their answers to ourselves and determine our I.Q. that way...
Many genius's have problems with socialization or at least understanding empathy and being polite and aware of how what they say effects others emotionally, IQ measures raw intelligence but in the end what we're really talking about here is the social recognition of genius, there are tonnes of genius insights out there in the world, real genius is truth, it's not about the person. If many great works were found to be output by less then stellar people on IQ performance tests would we reject them as works of genius? Many genius's aren't worth much if they lack character, ability to do certain socially valuable tasks is not enough if you're a complete as*hole or the next hitler inside.
My own take from being in a high IQ society is that I value character over raw intelligence any day of the week, like any tool, intelligence is only as good as the personality equipped to use it, it's not a badge of honor for me. Intelligence often comes with a curse of horrible and beligerant personalities, if the history of high IQ or ultra high IQ societies is any guide, extreme intelligence that is not balanced out by wisdom, age and experience is not a great thing.
If you want to see a real genius (as per you definition) see Chris langan video link below, most people are not going to score off the charts, you're talking about an extreme minority of people. Not to mention "IQ" as measured on different tests is measured differently, an IQ of 155 would be like 130 on another, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ak5Lr3qkW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ak5Lr3qkW0
It's good that geniuses aren't defined by IQ. Langan thinks one can prove through mathematics the existence of an afterlife. This is rampant nonsense of the worst kind. Who cares about his IQ? What has he produced of any worth? (Those questions aren't directed at you, ZakFiend.)
Last edited by Modality on 15 Mar 2009, 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And thus proved your intelligence!
I scored 163 on the Weschler test at the proctored Mensa session (only 155 on the California Test of Mental Maturity, but I was only 15 at the time). And as I so often say, that and $1.25 will get you a cup of coffee at any Dennys in town...
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If you dig down deep enough on that site, you will find an old ABC interview where they talk to a couple students, as well as a teacher, and the billionaire funding it. Also, several print articles do extensive interviews. The Time Magazine article "Failing Our Geniuses" is interesting, and the University of Nevada alumni magazine did an in depth interview with three families and their experiences. A girl named Emma Schmeltzer seems to get interviewed a lot-at the time, she was 14 and had already written a novel and was taking 200 Level (advanced) courses at the university-and scoring 100's on the tests.
Why is it intriguing? Because I wonder if these ultra-smart kids, trained properly, couldn't pull the planet out of the mess it's in. We already had one moron president, George W. Bush, bring the globe to the brink of societal ruin, and his successor seems to be intent on finishing the job. The last time this happened, we needed to resolve it via war.
The end result was so horrifying that it largely prevented the Final War from happening, a nuclear war that would have eliminated most life on earth. If we need a war to resolve it now, it will likely truly be the war to end all war. I for one am not willing to throw away humanity to placate the egos of a small class of financiers. This time, there will be no hiding behind walls for the powerful.
I can't help wondering if a world run by Davidson graduates wouldn't function way better, and not need nuclear weapons to settle scores, incinerating billions while the financiers try to eke out time. It reminds me of the old Black Sabbath song War Pigs from 1970, which can be found on any free music download service. What would the world be like if we didn't have the war pigs and their financiers running the show? Will we ever find out?
It wouldn't surprise me if many of those war pigs and their financiers would have had as children the intellect to attend and graduate from Davidson had it existed at the time. The problem as I see it is the allure of genius, or supposed genius. A high IQ is no substitute for experience and good judgment.There have been some incredibly intelligent political figures in this country who have made grave mistakes, perhaps worse than those made by our latest moron president. The name McGeorge Bundy comes to mind with Robert McNamara not far from his shadow.
Why should geniuses be morally better than anyone else?
A genius sociopath would be downright dangerous.
Why should they be any better at social relations? Remember social skills are not measured on an IQ test.
Why should they be any better at connecting people?
Would they be any good at relating to the majority of average humankind?
A genius would easily fall into the trap of narcissism: "I am smarter, therefore I am better, therefore I know what is best for you, therefore your opinion does not matter. I am doing this for your own good." That is dangerous. See above re. variable moral quality of geniuses.
I think geniuses would generally make horrible world leaders--their intelligence would actually give them a disadvantage. Better: An IQ around 120, in the high-average range, and lots of people skills, such as what's necessary to negotiate compromises and truly understand those who do not think as quickly and thoroughly as a genius would.
In a very real way, someone with profound giftedness is as disconnected from the rest of the world as someone with profound mental retardation. Disconnectedness does not make good leaders.
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I can think of a whole novel or screenplay in my head, but I'm on the lower-average side of intelligence.
I find that I cannot concentrate properly if a question has to much information, and I'm not given enough time to break it down in my head.
There's also performance anxiety and not being able to concentrate with distracting noises.
Callista is right though, so I'm glad I don't have a superior IQ in case I have that 'I'm-better-than-thou' attitude.