Isn't it time to speak up against NTs?

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I understand there isn't really anything, except maybe some rules in some places (which doesn't include high school), that says people have to accept someone. I been thinking about this for awhile and I guess the freedom of the country extends to the freedom of acting mean toward those who are not like us. I rather not be doing the same thing as them, but even if I am, there is one difference between me and them. I don't go around start being mean to every peer who isn't like me. They came to me first and started doing those things. That's not to say I follow “If they hit you, hit them back”, but after dealing with this for so long, it tends to be hard not to be very angry toward them. This again brings me up to why do they even care. It usually only affects them because they choose to let it be so.

I used to not really say anything about “accept me”. Even now, it's more like “leave me alone”. It still stands as of now that there is nothing written in stone that says “you must accept other people”. However, I hope making people more aware of this and maybe seeing it from their point of view would help. It doesn't have to be this way forever since social rules and norms are not forever written in stone. Simply saying “in America we have the freedom to be accepted for who we are” doesn't really seem to work, since they can counter with “in America we have the freedom to not accept the likes of you”. Of course, talk against certain people (at least the “average” high school student) doesn't work regardless of what you say.

My memory is a bit faded on this, but I believe I was told many times “why can't you just be normal?”, including by one of my older sisters. Rather or not I wanted to fit into this normal label, I don't really remember at the moment, but now I really don't want to. Once I get out of high school (however that happens, but that's for another post), maybe I will meet more accepting people. Until then, this is all I can go by. At the moment I'm in no big rush to get into college after high school, despite teachers wanting you to feel that way. Again, that's for another post. I rather not pretend to be someone I'm not to have “friends” who only like who I pretend to be and not who I really am. Not letting it be known more about yourself isn't exactly pretending, but rather hiding bits of yourself, something I rather avoid if it can be helped.

I do feel like I'm pretty much at war with the world. Due to ignorance and stupidly, it just seems like it's nearly impossible to be truly open with myself, even right here at Wrong Planet, but it's still a big step up from nearly any other site I been too so far. Anyway, I rather push myself away from ignorance and stupidly as much as possible. Many people have their own different ideas of truth and some feel more strongly in their ways in others, which is another thing making it very hard to be open with myself. It makes the truth that much harder to find, if even one exists. Due to human nature, that may simply be impossible, but that's for another post. I don't wanna be judging of many different people and things like many are, rather NT, AS, any whatever else.

We can't take one look at someone and know their NT. From what I seen of the people who gave me trouble, it seems like to me their NT in their behavior, rather this is correct or not. I wouldn't rule out a people with AS acting similar, but I find it hard to believe they would want to treat people the same way they get treated. That's not to say all of those with AS get picked on and bullied. To say I don't want people to feel like me at all would be a huge lie. I understand the more strongly you feel about something the more you want to get people to see it and even accept your way. However, many people take it very far with insulting, name calling, and other means to do so. There's even those that go as far as murder among others things, but like other stuff I said, that's for another post. I don't believe I said I never cared about how people felt about me, but I might have unwilling said that in some form.

About freedom, it seems to be very subjective. Rather or not America law gives a meaning of freedom, people will still have their own idea of. Like I said earlier, this may include the bullying and more. “Hey, it's our freedom, so shut up about it!” From a legal standpoint, I guess in the future, freedom, at least when it comes to legal rights, can be applied to more people. It also seems like freedom from a legal standpoint includes the freedom to be white/black/etc., male/female/*both or neither*, and more, without not being allowed certain rights. I understand the wording on that sentence may have been a bit poor.

I guess one reason people may worry about what others think is because thoughts may lead to actions. Certain people may feel like they have good intentions and know what's best for us. However, don't only oneself know what's best for themselves? I can somewhat understand those that are like “I know your different from your peers, but shouldn't you do this and that to fit in a bit more?” However, that may be another case of hiding the closet or pretending to be someone else.

Unfortunately, people do this. Instead of helping others get through the pain they went through, they grow up angry and treat others like that. Turning it into a negative cycle. The hardest thing to do is not to get angry. In order not to get angry I try to simplify things. There are as*holes and people that aren't a**holes. The former can have a bad impact on us and can make us bitter for when the time comes that we run into people in the latter group, but we're so angry that we don't even give them a chance. I went through quite a lot of a**holes before I met my two best friends in the world. These two people that accept me for who I am, love me for who I am, and they are worth the jerks I had to go through to find them. They helped me regain my confidence, and let me know that it's okay to be myself. No matter where you go you are going to run into a lot more stupid and ignorant people as you get through life. Believe me, if there was a place idiot-free that existed, I would not be here.

I know that it doesn't help you much now, but it does get easier as you get older. I've found that adults are alot more accepting of differences than children and adolescents are. It would be a pretty boring place if we were all alike, and you'll find many people drawn to you because of your differences or uniqueness. At least that's what I've found. The attitude I try to project is 'I'm my own person, take it or leave it.' Even if I could change to try to please someone, that person wouldn't be worth having in my life if change was needed or expected. If you're in high school, I'm sure that you've noticed many who are teased, bullied, or rejected by some...and they do not have AS. So it's not right to identify it as an AS/NT problem.

My son is homeschooled and he has only one friend who happens to be NT. They are total opposites but get along great. When he feels the need for socializing, he'll invite him over for the weekend. Other than that, he's happiest at home with his privacy or with our adult friends. One of his previous teachers commented that he was like a 30 year old trapped in a 10 year old body, so I'm hoping that when he's older he won't have as many problems socializing as his peers will be older also. He has absolutely no problems socializing with adults, in fact he loves it. I hope that made sense, sorry.

I guess I'm just trying to say that it won't always be this tough, and that things will get better. It did for me when I got out of those awkward teenage years when I knew nothing about AS, just thought that I was painfully shy.

I totally agree with this. I think its wrong that some seem to create an 'us v them' divide that is completely unnecessary. I feel that those who say 'I have AS, woe-is-me' are being self desruptive by creating such a divide, a self fulfilling prophecy that causes your own depression if you like. I mean, ok its not nice when others can't accept you for what you are (I've had this), but some NT's face this too. And its horrible when people bully you (I've had this too) but, again, some NT's also go through this. By saying 'I have AS and woe is me' you make yourselves sound like you are either not accepting who you are or playing on it to gain sympathy. And you bring yourself and those around you down. I accept what I have and I don't see it as a bad thing because without it I wouldn't be me. Some people cannot accept people with AS or pick on them because they are ignorant, shallow and need to do it to make themselves feel better by taking delight in bringing others down. This is what they want and when people take the 'woe is me' stance, they are delivering to the perpetrators just what they want. I know its hard to begin with but one has to stand tall and be proud because you are always going to be better than the ignorant scum who do this. No one else will prop you up quite like yourself, thats what I've learnt. I think I've got my message across on how much I hate this stupid NT v AS crap.

Sadly even some adults are very intolerant. I was at the Autism website at About.com and one of the parents of an autistic child talked about some of the nasty comments another parent made to her and her child while they were at the playground. She said another parent came to her and said, "Your child doesn't belong here. This playground is for normal children. Your child is disturbing the other children." I don't remember what this lady's reaction was, but if she had said something like that to me, I would have said "_itch, where in the fsck is the sign that says "Normal Kids Only". No, scratch that. I would have kicked her *ss.

That was a bunch of nerve. I wonder if this was a black child, would she have said this playground is for white children only. And you know there would have been an uproar and it would have made the news.

I used to be on a Yahoo group FOR parents of special needs children and when their was a news story about a child with autism from Maine being banned from the playground there were actually parents who were glad because kids like that don't belong there. I asked for some clarification because I thought maybe they were misinformed but a couple of the parents were definite that they did not think it was fair for kids to have to be around a child like that . And these WERE parents of kids with other special needs but their kids weren't on the spectrum so they didn't want to concern themselves.

I agree that some adults are intolerant and uneducated idiots, I didn't mean to imply that all people are accepting and understanding of anything or anyone the least bit 'different'. It was my experience, however, that the childhood and teenage years were the worst as far as bullying, rejection, etc. The pain that I felt eased as I became older and I felt less vulnerable to hurt and rejection. It may have been that I just learned not to care what certain people thought of me, and to just be myself...like it or leave it.

I'll admit that the vulnerability came back as I realized my son was going to experience much of what I had, and I'd rather live through that 100 times before seeing him live through it once. That's why he is not in the public school system any longer and he's much happier. I know this isn't the answer or ideal situation for everyone, but it works for us. I do take some criticism for some of the decisions I've made, especially homeschooling him, but it works well for him.

I just wanted Truth-Seeker to know that it does get a LITTLE better as you get older, and to have hope.

You know? This kind of stuff is disturbing. Is this like some kind of trend that's going to start up? Autistic kids are not harmful, and where are they going to go if people start banning them from places? I'm more or less an aspie, and I don't appear to be different unless I am in a relationship or under stress. I know some autistic kids, cause I've went to school with them, who were noticeable at first glance. Some of these kids have a hard time communicating even simple sentences, and I wonder what they feel when they start losing places to go. These kids do feel, sometimes more so than NTs.

- Ray M -

Yes. I can vouch for that. I have been taken out of the public school system and placed into a private school for special students. It was the best thing that ever happened, because the bullying in the public school system began to get very physical. Once I entered college, students there seemed to not even care too much about one another. I think, as we grow older, most adults are at least understanding if not supportive.

- Ray M -

If that's so true, then why do many people with AS try to bemoan NTs? Some with AS treat NTs with the same oppression that they themselves have been treated. I think that AS types are more shy, so they rely on a group setting, such as these forums, to truly get their tactics across. Some of what is said on here could be very hurtful to NTs, I'm sure.

Let's just get along with one another, and accept differences. Isn't that what the green bracelets are for?

- Ray M -

I'm a newbie here but I would of thought that its pretty much up to the individual to make the difference by firstly accepting themselves and secondly not accepting unreasonable behaviour from others and thirdly being aware that you/I have the knowledge and information to advance the 'cause' where most NT's don't.

There may be some unwilling to be accepting but they're likely to have other prejudices as well, I can't save them from that.

NT, AS. I don't really see what the difference is. I think that that everybody can learn a lot from each other, and get along, regardless of our differences from one another.

I agree.

First of all, Aspies have the condition not the NT's. Therefore it is our burden to adapt. NT's have no reason to accept us. There are more of them than us (by great numbers) and society is structured around them.

Second, we are accepted as a general rule. However, if the time comes when we are not accepted, there is a reason for it. We either hurt their feelings or did something socially unacceptable. Therefore, it is not unreasonable for them to want to discontinue socialization with us.

It's very simple when you think about it.

Lastly, why the hell are some of you running around telling people that you have AS? You can't seriously do that and expect to be accepted. My entire life, there are only 2 people that know I have AS. One was the lover that diagnosed me with AS. The other was an ex lover that accused me of being intentionally mean and I set her straight. She was also a nurse with an BS and I felt it appropriate. My best friend of 14 years has no clue I have AS. He just thinks I am insensitive on purpose.

BTW, let's drop the double standards. Don't tell me how you want to fit in to society and then tell me how you want to be accepted for who you are. In the real world, you can't be seperate but equal. You need to make a choice. The fact is people with AS emotionally damage and hurt NT's. We can not offer them the type of empathy and support that they need to feel completely loved. There's an interesting book "Asperger's Syndrome and Adults..." by Karen E. Rodman. It is a collection of essays and poems by NT's who have suffered with Aspies. It is truely terrrible what we can put them through. When I left my lover of 8 years she had to see a psychiatrist for a year to heal the damage I caused her.

I just don't think it's right for people with AS to insist that there is no reason why NT's choose not to mix with them.

quote 'NT's have no reason to accept us' excuse me but that simply doesnt fit with my world view, be like a black person saying whites have no reason to accept us or Gays saying straights have no reason to accept us. We exist and that alone is sufficient reason to expect acceptance.

I don't buy into your view of things one bit, but I accept your belief's as being valid for you.

I kinda sit on both sides of the fence here.

Firstly, though, there have been a lot of references to 'America' is this or that or the other. We're not dealing with America, but the world. The problems truth-seeker is encountering exist on all sides of the globe.

But I highlighted that because both Aspies and NTs are very guilty of segregation. I was reading a book review the other day in which someone claimed the author could not possibly be aspie because she was so well adjusted to the real world. To me that's no better than the expectations for everyone to conform to a particular standard.

I don't really think there is such a big divide between Aspie and NT. I believe most people are on the spectrum somewhere, whether at the very bottom or at the very top. None of the rest of my family are Aspie, but I can see aspie traits in all of them and my doctor told me the likelihood was that I inherited what I have from parts of both my parents. So it's not really right to classify individuals as one thing or another.

We're not really talking about a wide scope of every person on the planet who does not have AS.

What we're *really* talking about is the nasty, shallow, easily threatened group of morons that make up the intellectually challenged and vocally proficient section of human society. The bullies. The 'popular' kids. The ones who think it's fun to abuse and taunt anyone who is different, and to treat other people like they don't matter.

Those people, in my view, are more handicapped than any of us ever will be ^_^. That's their life, forever. We have intelligence, perception and we think outside the box. They're locked INTO that box...no way out.

No. I honestly pity them.

Apple