Japanese - Aspergers connection :-) ?

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I think it's natural to be drawn to a culture that is foreign from yours. The grass always looks greener...

Sometimes I think I should have been a European. It seems that my values are generally more in line with someone from Europe. Then again, Europe has its fair share of problems I wouldn't want to deal with.

I'm half Japanese and an Aspie.

There is a definite affinity between Asian societal culture and Aspie behaviour.

I don't know, this seems easier to learn to me, if time consuming. The example you listed implies consistency and rigidity, something we aspies like. Compared to what little i comprehend about North American socialization, is meeting for coffee that different than meeting for a few beers? If you're going out for beer, do you need to get beer or is it acceptable to have another alcoholic beverage (mostly applies to males, girls seem to get to have whatever they want)? Are you even judged on this other?

The fact that there is an etiquette course to take and that the rules actually apply create an appeal to me at least. Compared to here where social rules are so damned fluid, they barely count as guidelines, and definitely not rules.

Certain parts of it are rigid - the external bits that outsiders see and "think" they have "got it" when they have not got it. It is the unspoken rules which are the difficult part. I grew up in the West, but my family were very traditional Chinese and I lived in Japan. I like to think I move in both circles.

For example, you are supposed to be humble and hence are not supposed to ask someone for something directly. So you imply. The other person is supposed to "get it". If they don't get your hints they are to blame for not getting your hints.

Another example is, you are not supposed to praise yourself or your family. So for example your kid does well in school. You are not supposed to say that your kid is smart. In fact if anyone hints at this you are supposed to deny it and say something like "Oh, it is just that he has good teachers" or something similar. However you expect other people to initiate the praise instead. If they accept your dismissal as "Really? I didn't know. Must be a good school." instead of "Oh no. He is the smartest, most hard working kid I know." you have a right to get mad. However as you are not allowed to directly b***h to their face, what you do is go behind their backs and b***h to all of your friends about how rude they were not to praise your kid. And you have the right to do so, because the other person was supposed to get it. He/she was supposed to know that what you said was not what you meant.

Passive aggressive behavior when pissed off is big in N. Asian societies. Being able to read between the lines and see that people really mean X even if they swear up and down what they really mean is Y is a big bonus.

Outsiders don't often get to participate in this because as outsiders they are not supposed to know the rules and hence get "forgiven". Asians who are deemed to be "outsiders" because they did not grow up in this are also exempted because even if they are full Asian by blood they are not by culture and hence might as well be outsiders.

Personally I get annoyed with all this "oh another culture is so exotic" stuff. And this is not just aimed at Americans who go goo-goo gaa-gaa at Asian culture. I've seen the exact opposite amongst Asians. It gives you a bit of perspective when you see it happening on both sides of the fence. Guys, people are people wherever they go. People who go over might think it better but that's because as "outsiders" their mistakes are forgiven because they "don't know any better".

And by the way, over in Japan, a lot of anime is considered to be kid's stuff. You can understand why - as you get older you are supposed to more reserved and show fewer emotions, become more dignified. That is the sign of being an adult. The excessive emotions in anime (the reason why so many Aspies like it) are in fact a sign of immaturity. This is also true of the Japanese TV shows with easily read emotions. Ever notice that they are the ones with the least maturity?

Last edited by AnnieK on 21 Jul 2009, 5:01 am, edited 4 times in total.

The lack of facial expressions is certainly similar, but if an Aspie does something socially unacceptable it wouldn't go down well there at all.

I think England is the best place for Aspies to live. Unless they've been drinking everyone's pretty reserved and a lot of them have issues with eye contact, especially on the London underground. Eccentrics are usually well liked (except by teenagers) here as well and a lot of the weirder traits you could probably get away with more than in places like America, Australia or Asia. There was someone with more obvious Aspergers than me at my last job and everyone loved him and just found his quirky ways and obsessions amusing.

No it would go down OK if you are a foreigner because it will be dismissed as part of being a foreigner.

If you were say looked Japanese, spoke native level Japanese and hence might be expected to "know" the rules, no it would not go down well. Miss the passive-aggressive hints that you pissed off Tanaka-senpai down the hallway by not being able to read between the lines enough to know he really *did* want the green-tea flavored donut and was just being polite in refusing it because he didn't want to look like a glutton and hence you taking it was a big faux pas? For example, him not greeting you in the morning, though taking careful note to greet people around you (based on a true story)? The little verbal barbs that seem oh so innocent on the surface and said with a big cheerful smile (also based on something I saw)? And trust me there's a lot more going behind your back. Oh boy...

To show how much of this "reserve" is not based on character but societal restrictions, for those areas not covered by societal restrictions, Asians are actually very direct and honest - a lot more than Westerners. The key area I am thinking of here is prejudice. Political correctness does not exist in Asian countries and so people feel free to be very very blunt about what they think about say, someone who is fat, someone who is foreign (esp. if they are non-white or even if they are white), women in the workplace, someone who is disabled etc. Hotels in Japan for example feel free to ban foreigners from staying (and there is no real law against this either). Hell, both Japanese and Chinese feel free to make fun of people of other Japanese/Chinese because they are from a different part of the country and speak "funny". So at least your Asian friends will feel free to tell you that that dress really does look fat on you and you need to lose weight now. And your boss will feel free to tell you that yes, you did lose that promotion because you are fat, disabled or female. And the idea of "sexual harassment" is a joke (no literally, I've seen Japanese men in the workplace joke about that - try that in America). Of course they won't tell you that Tanaka-senpai is pissed off with you because it's not proper to say this directly. In America political correctness is big and the "rules" say you are not supposed to tell a female she is fat because it is not polite. The point is, everything is based on rules on what you can and cannot say. In any culture though, if the rules say you can't say it, people will work around it, leading to white lies and passive-aggressiveness and when they can say it, they will be blunt and honest. It's just the rules are a different in different cultures, not that people are necessarily more honest or dishonest, reserved or not in different cultures.

Of course it's fun watching Americans trying to process how Japanese can be so reserved and polite and suddenly spout this casual venom about disabled people. Or Japanese trying to reconcile how Americans can be so blunt about the fact that they really do want that green-tea donut but seem so hesitant to tell their friend, that dress really does look fat on them or to admit that they don't want someone around because they are disabled.

If you are having trouble in your own country moving to another country might work for an Aspie but that is because you are "foreign". The more you assimilate the more you will find that people are well, people. If you can't handle people in your own country because of your lack of people skills - it's not going to help running away to another country in the long-term because people are still people wherever you go. Unless you decide to (a) become a hermit, though you might as well do that in your own country or (b) be the eternal foreigner and live in blissful ignorance. (b) is not a bad option - you just have to accept the limitations this brings as well e.g. restrictive career options.

I don't need to move to a different country to feel that way.

I've watched all the movies of Yasujiro Ozu. They weren't shown in the US for the longest time, being considered "too Japanese". However, you can buy/rent many of them on DVD now as the Criterion Collection has re-issued them (with subtitled). I loved them. His earliest movie are silent, and his last movies are in color, so that gives you an idea of the time frame - They aren't about modern Japanese culture. A big theme is the rules of traditional Japanese society and the idea of young people breaking those rules and paying the consequence. Most of the characters come around to the old style of thinking. There's little plot, but rather a slowly evolving storyline about the relationships between family members, which makes the movies feel more like plays than movies. I would recommend to anyone interested in Japanese culture.

I'm not sure about 'other asian countries' but I believe you make a really good point, for Japan at least.

"National research studies indicate that Japan and other developed countries have the highest rates of autism among their children today."

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/coun ... utism.html

Tokyo is waaaay overcrowded..... think i'll pass.

I frankly think most people like Japan just because of the anime and manga. I've never heard of someone liking it because of the mannerisms, that's interesting to hear about. The Hungarian language is very, very conditional. It used to be more so before the post-WWII era.

I have always loved Japanese culture because it's quirky, the food is nice and the language is interesting.

Sort of the same reason I love Estonian culture (except you never hear about Estonian culture...), minus the food part. Potatoes in every meal must get boring. After all, a northern climate can't grow much besides lingonberries.

Haha, I love Ireland but the stereotype that Irish only eat potatoes is kind of rooted in truth. I mean, they even make BREAD out of the stuff. It's nice bread, but I couldn't bear to eat potatoes every day. Unless of course they were in a crisp. I love the Irish Tayto crisps (LOL at the name).

I've had those too! There's also this orange soda with orange bits in it. When I drank soda, I'd have it.