An NT's definition of annoyance.

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Being called "them and they"

Post's where NT's are portrayed as all being the same. i.e. we all have 50 friends etc.

NT's are far more complex being's. Please don't assume we are all the same . I am using this forum to try to understand AS traits, how to recognise it in my partner and explore how to improve our relationship

"US and THEM post's are unhelpful, annoying, and personally are pushing me away.

Vee

I couldn't agree more.

Vee,

Please don't be discouraged. There are those who really feel that way for a variety of reasons, including aspies feeling like the NT world see's them all the same, which they are not at all. They are just as complex and individual as we are and people don't realize that. If you were autistic and spent your life being missunderstood, which I feel is a big part of having AS in an NT world, you would feel like it is an Us and Them situation sometimes too. I think some here feel that way more than others, and some have no problem with NT's. It is very hard to understand what it is like to be AS, and is just as hard for someone with AS to understand what it is like to be NT and it can be very frustrating and isolating.

You can learn a lot from these posts about the different perspectives of the people on here, regardless of their attitude about NT's. This difficulty is just as much a part of AS as any other challenge it can bring someone.

Don't take it so personally, you really can find it helpful to understand all perspectives of AS, especially difficulties with NT's. The feelings they have towared NT's can give you insight into how you as an NT can be perceived by someone with AS. You can learn so much from the people on here, and for the most part they are all very nice people.

You know, it's kind of hard to have a general discussion about a large group without using some form of generalizations. It is with general things that aspies generally tend to have problems.

I am an "NT"

I have never even noticed being called "them" or "they" here or anywhere else for that matter. It really doesnt bother me to be generalized. The fact is that I am a "them" or "they" often just like you are. Everyone is "them
or "they" in some respect or another.

I know, I just reacted on the first post that raised my anger. My/ our world is in turmoil right now, and I just dont know what, why, where or anything. We recently realised he has AS, and I am discovering why I have felt such confusion for such a long time, and trying to work through it.
I do know there are people who have probably had bad experience of NT's, and withdrawn into their safe AS world. I also need my safe place, so kinda understand.

Thanks
vee

Ditto.

Though Mommyjones had it right: don't take it personally.

Because one of my sons is black, I told him many times to not take it personally when a cop pulls him over. I also told him to do whatever the cop says, no matter what. Police can be sued later if need be, but at the time you have no idea what the cop is responding to: an alert for somebody that looks like you, his wife's ultimatum that morning, the insult his boss slammed on him, the heat and humidity, jealousy over your neat car. You don't know, and he doesn't know you. So the pull over is impersonal. Don't make it personal and cause an incident. They are the ones holding a gun.

Also, I think saying NT or Aspie is just shorthand to saying, An NT I know who is like a lot of NTs but of course not all NTs treats AS like this and I hate it.

My son has AS, and through him I realized my husband also is very likely AS. Because of this website I have gotten a different perspective of my relationship with my husband and it explains a lot about our difficulties we have had, particularly at the beginning of our relationship. It has been great for our relationship because I understand so much more, and take personally so much less. Once the confusion goes away and you learn more, it will give you some clarity, and it can be very bonding.

Good Luck!

I have never really understood any kind of generalizing of any group. It's just so absurd to me, unless it's done for scientific purposes. I think ppl that do that are the ones that are venting or just trying to make sense of things, so they oversimplify the world to make it seem more easy to cope with.

I think lumping people into one group is stupid. I realized how stupid I had been when I was lumping NTs into one thing, now I don't do it anymore. I now get sick of NT this or aspie this or aspie that or NT that and acting like we are angels and we wouldn't hurt a fly or do this or that. BS.

How would you describe the group 'Non-Greek'?

Hi Vee;

I think you are an answer to most aspies prayers. I percieve you as someone who honestly wants to understand "us". Being understood for who "we" realy are, I believe, is something most autistics rarely experience, and painfuly long for.

Perhaps I can lend some insight with some theorys I have been working on for the past couple of years.

A former supervisor of mine once made the following observation of me. He stated that I am a very intelegent person, and because of that relative srtength in my personality, I had come to trust and rely on the product of that trait with a high degree of confidence. I found that to be a highly astute and insightful observation. My experience has been that I have a highly advanced skill in the art of thinking, (only because I have learned and practiced that skill), and because of that, it is quite reasonable and natural that I should believe the results of my anylitical thinking are usualy correct.

I believe most NTs have a highly developed skill in the art of "mind reading", or "theory of mind". To define this as I understand it: NTs have the ability to understand what others are thinking, and understand what others think that they are thinking, (second order theory of mind). In light of the relative skill which NTs use this ability, it is quite reasonable and natural for an NT to have a great degree of confidence in the acuracy of their perceptions of other people.

The difference between these two "reliances", is, I believe, what makes AS such a disability. When an NT meets an aspie, or anyone with a high degree of inteligence, I think "they" immideately begin to make decisions based upon their skill in mind reading and life experience on who this person "is". "They" therefore form expectations and read motive and meaning into that individual that generally have proved to be acurate.

Where the problem arises, (again I believe), is that AS is an invisable disability. When presented with a person who is obviously intelegent, it would seem quite inconceveable that this person would not understand simple things that would be reasonably expected of a five year old, and therefore discount lack of understanding, and credit things like arrogance, and your belief that we think you are stupid, as a motive for "our" behavior. The simple fact is we don't. "We", or more accuraely I, don't think you're stupid, and don't "see" things that NTs see as obvious.

My NT wife, and I have come up with simple rules for dealing with this dilema.
Rule #1) You gotta tell him, (me).
It's not that I am unable to understand peoples perspectives, it's just that I don't see them. I need to have peoples perspectives explained to me, just as you would to a five year old.

Rule #2) Listen, don't assume.
I generaly say exactly what I mean, and if you listen to every word, and trust my sincerety, you can derive my meaning. If you decide what I mean based upon your perceptions of me, you will probably be wrong.

I sincerely hope this is of some help, and am exceedingly grateful for people such as you and my wife.

Maybe I read that the wrong way, but I took that confusion that you have been feeling as trouble understanding your son. (Wait, at first I read that as your son, but now I'm just seeing "he," and I'm not sure what "he" that is.. I'm sorry.. not I'm quite confused too..)
But anyways, the trouble understanding is exactly what's being talked about when people refer to NTs as "them".. People who think differently, people we can't quite comprehend, people we'd very much like to figure out a bit better so they didn't keep baffling us. No, they're not all the same, but not all aspies are the same either. Most issues about not understanding things that come up on a site about autism spectrum disorders have to do with differences between people who have autism spectrum disorders and people who don't. (Or, arguable, between people who could be related to the autism spectrum and people who are not on it at all. There have been quite a few threads detailing how not actually having a disorder doesn't completely mean that someone isn't on the spectrum at all.) The "us" and "them" is not a line, it's more of a big grey field of fog. The "them" is referring to "people who do things that baffle me and blame me for not reacting correctly to things I don't get."

I would not, as it holds no particular relevance to me, and I don't need it in my consideration.

Besides, your implied argument is fallacious.


I agree that it is a crude subdivision, but it is still exists, and it is significant for plenty of people, and as useful information can be gained from it, it is useful.

Of course that's just the surface of it. But I'm not particularly interested in the discussion of finer points of terminology as I find them neither important or particularly relevant at this moment. Well, at least for me. If I want to go into specifics I will go to a more specific topic. As far as I'm concerned this is generally settled.

....why are you posting in this location then ('safe place'_, this place is a neurodiverse safe zone-neurotypicals like you won't dojavascript:emoticon(':?') too good here due to this place having a different orientation

you're looking for relationship advice and info yes-but be reminded this is our world so things will be biased in our favor. You have your world which is the majority

Please elaborate...