Help i think im an aspie but noone really wants to listen :(

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Well i'll just start with a hello to all first since this is my first post on this forum...
And next thanks to all who read this and thanks to all who reply ...

Well i dont know where to begin :S so i'll just start from where i first thought about asperger / autism...
It all startet the day that i saw some program about autism on television and how they found out if they had autism and i noticed that in lots of these tests i would turn out to have autism (i was about 7 or 8 at that time)... After that some years went on till now where i just turned 18... I've got a friend who is aspie and a nerd/geek like me... When i first met him on the internet i thought i was talking to myself and that was before i knew that he was aspie... When i then found out that he was aspie i wanted to find out more about apie and autism and found a lot of sites with lots of information and all those things just fit perfectly on me... Well i'll just write those things down wich really fit on me...

I cant deal with other people's feelings they make me confused... I get really confused and "frustrated" in social situations because i cant keep up with the conversation(s) and then just leave... I cant really keep eye contact with people when im talking to them... I cant take it when people want to help and i dont want their help... I almost only look at the details in E.G. movies or things like that and dont really look at the "people" in it... I have two interests if you can call it that and they are programming and gaming (on my homebuild computer ofcourse)... I managed to get a job a few months ago but dropped out because i couldnt handle to be together with all those people i always ended up in confusion when they where talking to each other (and me i think) and always ended up doing nothing or being very frustrated because i didnt get the point in that joke the boss told or things like that... I cant really handle if something not goes as planned (E.G. a bus i'm on is late or something... I again get frustrated and confused at the same time and then just cant go on with the other things that i had to do)... I have 2 friends now and the one of them is aspie and the other one has been my friend since i was 9 and never really make new friends even if i try... I can talk to others yes but only about my own interests and i cant really keep a conversation running... I do weird things with my hands (i have to do that else i would go crazy)... I prefer to do things on my own and cant really work in a group... I fail to get the point in jokes... I cant "read between the lines" when someone is talking to me and then they always get mad at me because i didnt understand them... And now i've forgotten everything else i wanted to say :S:S:S ...

I hope this is enough for somebody to tell me what to do and what not to do and so on...

I live in Denmark and dont really know anything about how to get help with this kind of problem but maybe somebody can give me some advice there too...

Thanks to all who read this and Thanks to all who answer...

/Jolger

hallo jolger,

I think you should visit a psychiatrist .

Agreed, and your accountant of course...It's a while since I've seen such an evident and mercenary phoney!

ummm could you explain what you mean by that??? :S:S:S

Welcome.

Jolger

here is my take on what gwynfren wrote: some people jump to nasty conclusions with a minium of facts - ie ignore him.

If you have a number of aspie friends, see if you can find out who diagnosed them, and get referal to the same doctor/psychologist. You live right next to Germany where Hans Asperger was from, so there should be plenty of psychologists in your region familiar with Aspergers.

From what you write, I'd guess that you show more Autistic traits, more strongly ie you're further along that end of the spectrum than most Aspies. I'm guessing you're better at verbal/written things than visual things (pictures/movies/role playing/performances). There is a sort of divide between "aspie verbaliser" and "aspie visualiser" depending on which you are better at. You may also have something called "Auditory Processing Disorder", that's when you have trouble interpreting meaning when people are talking to you. You can hear them fine, you just have a hard time understanding what they mean.

You have a bit of a double opportunity at being misunderstood here, I'm guessing English is your second language - you write it very well but the way you present your information is a bit different (a difference between Danish culture and USA culture?), and if you're aspie - being misunderstood just goes along with it.

My specific (linguistic) example
"I cant really handle if something not goes as planned" - is an odd way of writing it but the meaning seems clear to me.

I'd probably write
"I get upset if things don't go as planned"

Note this is a bit scary for life in general because plans usually do get changed a bit. I do get upset if we were planning to go to an upmarket restaurant and we end up at a pie cart (one of those takeaway shops in a caravan) instead. Some General said "plans never survive the first engagement with the enemy" - however this doesn't mean we shouldn't make plans. It is easier to change or adapt a plan than to operate with no plan at all.

There is a subtle attitude difference that I think might be cultural but I can't quite figure out how to explain it or describe it. It's a little like the way Yankees (USA) like to brag about everything and put themselves in the best possible light, but Australians prefer to be more humble, avoid taking credit for their successes, and like poke fun at themselves. Note: our cricket team seems to be the exception to this - they come across as obnoxious and arrogant.

True

Well almost... I speak German as my native Language... Danish as my second "native" language... and English as third language...


And okay if your conclusion is that im on the other end of the spectrum(what would that be then???) then i think i have a question:

The day before yesterday one of the guys i live with here decided that i should have a desk and my computer in my own room...
We started cleaning up in here and took a lot of things away from the room (I.E. some chairs a little plastic drawer and THE OTHER BED!! !)... When i had to sleep that night i couldnt... everything seemed too different and new sounds where in the room and some of the old sounds where gone(I was kind of frightended and REALLY nervous)... Now that i have the desk and my computer in my room i cant sleep at all... I have tried with my computer turned on and with my computer turned off but i just cant sleep ... There is one thing i remember from when i was younger and that is that when i moved the things around in my (very old room) i would always end up putting it back exactly the way it was before or i just couldnt sleep and got frightended and nervous...

Now my question is: do you have any tips on what to do about the (anxiety<<< if this is what frightended is called in this "context") or (???nervousity???)...


Thanks

Jolger

The following is based on my interpretation of stuff that I've learned from reading books and searching the internet.

Autism Spectrum.

Low functioning Autism - pretty much unable to communicate well enough to take care of oneself. May not know when to eat or go to the toilet without a strict routine, body doesn't necessarily signal action required in a way the brain interprets quickly enough if at all. The kind of thing I imagine where the person sits in the corner rocking, and not able to talk to anyone else. May be associated with a low IQ, but I sometimes think that says more about the limits of the IQ tests than it does about the very Autistic person's intelligence or ability to learn.

High Functioning Autism - able to (learn to) communicate well enough to take care of oneself - eg Temple Grandin. Usually associated with higher intelligence depending on the limitations of the tests used.

Asperger's Syndrome. May or may not be able to take care of ones self. Overlaps a lot with High Functioning Autism. May or may not be the same thing as High Functioning Autism. Usually has some language skill. Usually seen as a bit weird, eccentric or socially incompetent by "Neurotypical" people. There's variety in the way Aspergers affects individuals and how much.

For instance - I've got the social incompetence thing happening, and I like details and a whole lot of other things, but I can sleep if I rearrange the furniture in my room. I can't sleep if the neighbour's dog barks all night. I have a hard time going to sleep if I can't use the sleep function on my radio, and my night-mouthguard (stops teeth clamping/grinding). I can't sleep if someone else is in the room.

High functioning end of Asperger's syndrome - easily able to take care of oneself, get married, raise children, hold a job, run a business etc.

Low functioning end of Asperger's - can't take care of oneself, but can yell at Mum for doing a bad job.

I believe it is possible for Asperger's people to learn to look after themselves, and appear to move along the spectrum of Autism. However when under stress or pressure, without opportunity to destress - the original thinking patterns reappear - and what I'd call - my dark side will come out.

Although - I've read that Asperger's people can make good emergency workers because they learn the set of rules that go with a situation and can follow them, no matter how bad the situation gets. They appear cool calm and collected while everyone else is panicking.

I'm sure if you do some more research of your own about Autism and Asperger's together and pay attention to the bits that mention spectrum, you will get the idea. If German is your first language, you should be able to read Hans Asperger's original publications about his "Little Professors".

The confusion about Autism Spectrum and Asperger's Syndrome, I think is a historical thing, Autism was described first by someone called Leo Kanner, and Asperger's by Hans Asperger. Hans called his discovery "Autism" too. I think I'd like "Little Professors' Personality" more than "Asperger's syndrome".

Oliver Sachs compared Autism and Aspergers in "An Anthropologist on Mars" in the chapter called "Prodigies". There are a bunch of traits they share, specifically a mental aloneness (autonomy?) - ignoring, disregarding anything that comes from the outside.

Kanner also mentioned "an obsessive insistance on sameness" - does this seem familar?

hmm how to deal with the anxiety?

I mostly deal with it by putting it in a box and ignoring it - if that makes any sense. And I repeat in my head a mantra - the room is rearranged and the room is ok. The person sharing the room is my mum and she's ok. What ever I need to tell myself to be ok - over and over. When it comes to things like hotel rooms and other new places - I usually don't get much sleep the first night. If I'm doing a long trip, I have to organise to stay a couple of days in one place so I get some sleep. I might take my own pillow - so I can be comfortable.

So instead of thinking about the room being re-arranged or different, just keep telling yourself that it's ok (it is, isn't it?), concentrate on nice even breathing and making sure your body is relaxed - check by tensing up various bits and then relaxing them. This is akin to meditation or a form of it. Meditation is supposed to be as good for you as sleeping. And if you are really really tired and you meditate, you have a good chance of falling asleep.

If however, you get anxious about being anxious - you are in real trouble.

My problems with aspieness seem to be a lot less extreme than yours. That's why I feel that we're in different places on the spectrum. My advice isn't necessarily going to help you any, but don't let that put you off trying to find out what you need to know.

I think im going to give that a try... I really hopes it makes me feel better and more comfortable... But right now i cant even play the games i like because i feel axnious and nervous all the time... My aspie friend told me that he had the same problem when he rearanged his room and that i will get used to it the way it is now (I certainly DO hope so... :S:S:S)...

And thanks again for the reply AND your willingness to help :):)...

P.S.
Some great things are happening now in my life... Finally i got myself convinced to tell somebody about my problems and ask them for help... And now i've got a (???psycholog/psychiatrist???) "meeting" in about two weeks yay finally something is happening

Dear Wobbegong, Jolger and everybody

At first a short introduction: I'm a Danish guy, or rather the guy that together with my partner have taken Jolger into our home, into our family and into our hearts. We and especially I have a lot of practical experience helping kids like Jolger - kids that are intelligent and have great potentials… some have been abused or violated in some way - but most have “only” some emotional problems – like Autism, Asperger – often combined with a terrible childhood and youth.

Wobbegong: Thank you so much for helping “my son” – your thoughts are clearly heartfelt and constructive, and your writing is an important part of helping him

Jolger is a wonderful kid that we met at a acquaintance more than a half year ago; he was sitting in a corner and looked a little ill-adjusted to the stuation - I found it natural to talk with him and learn to know him better. At that time I simply saw him as a little shy and lonely kid, so I suggested that the next time we had some sort of gathering for those kids and others, we would be glad to also include him… and it was a pleasure to see him light up and smile

In the weeks following we saw him more and more and he soon became a regular guest and resident in our house, and it was obvious that he was enjoying his stay - but also was we - we became slightly infatuated with his boyish charm and his intelligence – you know the kind of boy you would wish to have as a son

It was always a sad moment when the weekend or the visit were coming to an end and he was going back to the mutual acquaintance, because it was clear that he felt much more safe and happy here with us. After an ending that were particularly sad, he simply told us the extremely sad story about a schizophrenic mother, a twisted step-father, no real friends and the times he run away from home – and on top of that did, he did not feel safe at the acquaintances’ home…

He then asked us if he could please move in with us and stay here, in our house where he felt safe and at home – I must admit that we both shared a tear and after a warm talk about the terms of him becoming a part of our family, he simply moved in

We had a guest room that we simply used as his room instead, we helped him finance a PC as his own and we took him shopping for clothes and other similar items. Jolger were afraid of starting an education because of the many of people at his own age and wished for a job in an IT-company instead – so I arranged with the company where I are working, that he could start as a trainee with us.

The job was only a partly success – Jolger was much liked by his colleagues and he also found many of them funny and good to work with, but after a few months it slowly began to fell apart… Jolger was often extremely difficult to wake up in the morning or simply refused to get to work with me, without any concrete reason – but it became clear over a period of time that he started fearing the work; the thought could make him cry immensely, so he wanted to stop – which we naturally did.

After a few months after that, with sleeping to noon and playing “World Of Warcraft” the rest of the day and night (a teenagers dream? , Jolger found out, with our aid, that he wanted to work with IT-security and software development and we therefore needed to find him the right education. We made a plan for studying Computer Science, but starting with a high-level technical IT-high-school and everything seemed just fine

…

Jolger has connected to the both us, but especially me – so when I’m sad, he’s sad, and if my partner and I seems to be mad at each other, Jolger gets confused and very sad… so when my mother suddenly died 3 weeks ago, it was an extremely sad situation for me, with naturally affected Jolger strongly.

2 weeks ago, we were on vacation in a large beach house – me, my partner, Jolger and his/ours aspie friend - it started most perfect and it was a sheer pleasure to see the kids run around happy as ordinary teenagers, not missing their computer However in that week Jolger’s mood started to get unstable, he was occasionally sad and distant and at some time had a terrible quarrel with his friend over small issues, a situation that caused a lot of crying on both parts for hours, but we managed to patch things up and get them on close friend terms again – whew!

Jolger then told me that a part of his sadness was my unwillingness in accepting that he was an Asperger. I admit that Jolger have had some clear streaks of Asperger in the time I have known him, i.e. the narrow-focused fascination of technical items, the extreme egocentricity and the trouble relating to people (together with sharing of my immense fascination of the Star-Trek universe but in many ways he was functioning so very good and since he was now in some way my son, I probably refused to se it clearly… but after our talk, I willingly accepted that he clearly have some Asperger in him.

When we got home we discussed a solution to his situation, and he found that he needed privacy and could be stressed easily without it – a situation I found very natural since we all need our personal space from time to time – and since we had previously discussed the need to a desk in his room for studying, we decided that purchase the needed furniture’s and rearrange his room accordingly – all decisions were taken together with Jolger.

Then hell continued

Jolger went into a depression where he slept really bad, were unhappy most of the time and simply impossible to approach and talk with – he was really sad and frustrated and was not able to let us help him. He started then to intensely search for definitions of Asperger and aspie-tests around the net, looking for situations in his past for where he could clearly “prove” that he was an aspie. I understood his intelligent reason for finding definitions of his problems, to then find equally solutions of those, but was not convinced that this almost manic search for similarities was not the best solution for him?

Things are however improving. In 1½ week we have the first appointment with psychologist who is experienced in situations like his and also he are getting slowly more relaxed about his room. Last night we sad and talked for many hours end exchanged situations from our childhood that were similar and he clearly started that we was very happy about the talk and that he found it soothing and it was easier to talk now

All troubles are naturally (sadly) not solved overnight, and he have had some shorter sad moments today, sitting on his chair rocking back and forward – while reading this forum – but it’s very clear that the last weeks adjusting to his “new” room, long long discussions/talks with me about his life AND the knowledge that an experienced psychologist are looking forward to help him, very clearly brightens up his life and his look on the future now…

…

Jolger are a kid we love very much, and are looking forward to have as a part of our family the rest of our lives

Storebror

Wow - what a detailed letter (are you sure you're not a bit aspie too?).

I didn't have any of the scary mother/father childhood problems that you describe for Jolger. My parents were perfectionists and really busy which can be stressful for a child but I coped reasonably well.

Jolger's difficult experiences may be why he gets more anxious about changes like re-arranging furniture or staying at new places, and takes longer to adjust than I would. But this is part of the nature of aspieness - we get anxious about change, but some get more anxious than others - ie a question of degree or quantity. And there may also be differences in the way we express the anxiety from calm discussions to complete screaming temper tantrums.

My family hosted a series of school age exchange students that couldn't fit in with their assigned host families. I don't know whether this was because the students that didn't fit in were a bit aspie and fitted better with a family that was more aspie, or because my family was more interested in and tolerant of diversity. Or maybe just because we weren't all stressed out about studying for exams while the original host familes usually had at least one kid studying for uni entrance exams which usually conflicted with the interests and distracting activities of the exchange student. Anyway - all that is to tell you I know what it is like to take in a stressed out kid - though probably not as stressed as Jolger.

For me, getting a formal diagnosis seemed really important so people would "believe me". But then my therapist decided to believe me without me getting the expert to diagnose me and my need evaporated. I found there was not a lot of point telling most of my family or friends about being aspie because they didn't understand what it meant. But knowing the diagnosis for myself allowed me to better know myself and manage my discomforts and take advantage of my aspie assets. There are no government services available for people with an Aspie diagnosis here - so no need to get a formal diagnosis for that reason either.

Stress will make any situation more difficult and for the moment Jolger is probably easily stressed - so if your therapist can teach you tools for stress management for aspies, time alone to decompress is one, then I think things will settle down and there will be fewer times from hell.

About the room - just because Jolger designed and agreed with the change, doesn't make the change less stressful, unfortunately. I think he himself wrote that he prefers the room the way it is now. But it still stresses him. I think the only thing that will help is time and the mantra (repeated thought) - "it's ok, I like it like this". If Jolger is anything like me, he will do things that are stressful - because he gains something more preferable than not doing the stressful thing. The thing is going to be stressful anyway. Like climbing a mountain.

By the way - I don't know very much about Denmark and Danish culture except for what has been in our news because of Prince Frederick and Mary from Tasmania getting married. My favourite sweet pastry here is known as a "danish" - though I'm fairly sure it is from France or Germany. That I could be writing with a Danish person because of the internet is a wonderful thing.

Wobbegong

I have long time ago accepted that i'm a bit aspie as well

Thanks for your reply...



Without knowing your family I would normally say that it's a bit of both reasons.
Looking back to the last year I would not say that Jolger is severely stressed, but he have been for the last 1-2 weeks, and I must admit that it have been extremely hard for me to both to aid him in his life and simultaniously come to terms with my mothers death (on top of a demanding work situation).

Howevere im getting there - Jolger is quite better most of the time, and the amount of hours we have used together discussing situations seems to get him in a quite better mood and psycological state than he was before - alså thanks to your writing and your matra.

You wrote that for you getting a formal diagnosis seemed really important so people would "believe you". I tend to think that this would not be needed fort Jolger, since I and we are always therefor him and believe in him, but must also accept that the diagnosis important for complementing our acceptiion - but especially also for him selv in beliveing that there are something "fixable" in his situation - propably a situation you have had also.

Your uses of the words "fewer times in hell" amuses me - propably because I'm having caring thoughts of Jolger meanwhiles, but it's nice to get assured in my oppinion that it will get better and easier to cope with - also with the tools provided by the psykologist.


Prince Frederik are a good amasador for the Danish mentality - shy, intelligent and proud of being a small country that represents the rights of the individual and the neccessary space for people that are not ordinary. And yes, the "Danish" youyr know are not wery close to our Danish" and again that kind of pasty is originating form Austria

But yes - it's simply great to use the net for this - both for us to communicate, but especially for the all of us - the aspies I have got to knowe as friends and carefor, som of the deeply, I would never have met without the net

Hi Storebor

I think you are handling this well. There's not much more advice I can think of now.

One little thing.

I'm a bit wary of looking for "something 'fixable'". Maybe it's just which words you've used and you're thinking about it the same as me. But I think if Jolger is looking for a kind of fix that he does once and forever he will be able to cope with all his stresses, he might be very disappointed and frustrated.

I think of my learning as ongoing, as I find new tools and strategies and ways of dealing with things that stress me. There isn't one that works every time or instantly. And problems don't stay away once they are dealt with.

Hypothetical Example: the room.

I think Jolger's stressful history has contributed to the high level of anxiety and as he gets more comfortable with you that this will reduce. At the same time he finds change fairly stressful, so unless he practices changing things around he will never be really comfortable with it. Ie if you keep the room the same for a year maybe - and then change it, he will be almost as stressed as he was this time. So hopefully, he's learned a good coping strategy - patience with himself and a mantra - but he isn't cured of being freaked out by the room re-arrangement. This is hypothetical of course. But if he wants to be less freaked out by room changes he'd need to re-arrange it often. First - maybe by changing where little things are and then maybe by re-arranging the furniture. But why would we want to do this? Is it easier to practice the coping strategies and learn new ones, or to re-arrange furniture every week. How well does he cope with staying in new places, like when travelling, what would help this? But there is no off-switch or permanent fix for the stress of change. It's more like car maintenance. There are always things that need doing. There is no fix that you can apply to the car that will be permanent.

I'm not sure how much sense this is making. I think I'm trying to say that living with aspergers has assets (good things) and deficits (bad things) and coping with the stresses is an ongoing process, not "something fixable". Merely getting a formal diagnosis - won't change anything much. It's the learning and practice you do that matters.

Hi again... A little while since i've posted in my own thread now lol...

Well I've talked to Storebror about the things he wrote with the "fix" and yes i'm not looking for a "permanent fix" but more like you describe a "maintenance" and how to deal with things... I'm looking to "understand" "how" i am or more "what" i am and how to deal with it... If there would be a "permanent fix" for the condition i wouldnt even consider doing it... I wouldnt "be me" any more...

/Jolger

Hi wobbegong,

Tanks for your reply.

No, we know that there is not some “smart little pill” that Jolger can take which fixes everything - deep down he are naturally hoping for such a substance, but we both know that it will not be that easy.

I think that, even though it slightly frightens Jolger, your mentioned idea about not having his room static, but making small changes once in a while, is a really good suggestion that can aid him continuously.

I totally agree, but it's still important for Jolger to get some sort of diagnose, perhaps only to know that when you have the diagnose, you also have strong indications of the right way to help him...