Just some random thoughts on therapy

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I just posted not long ago how therapy was getting a bit strange for me because I was experiencing transference. I found it interesting that Tony Attwood said that aspies most times do not experience transference. I definitely am and I am still exploring my feelings on that. True it's a "normal" thing and I've seen some therapists post that if you don't experience it than it usually means the therapy isn't working, and the therapist will generally refer you to someone else. (Aspies would be the exception since they generally don't experience transference). I guess the reason I've brought it up again is because I'm worried about myself. I know I have a good therapist, otherwise I wouldn't experience transference. But I know there will come a day when the therapy will end and once again it will be someone that means something to me walking out of my life just like everyone else has. It will hurt me but I hugely doubt it will have much (if any) impact on their life. I don't want to stop my therapy, but I've started to wonder if I can handle the inevitable rejection and should. It's probably too late now so why end something that gives me someone to talk to that I "think" at least cares on some level? I know it sounds like I'm being a martyr or something, intentionally inflicting pain on myself because I don't want to have to handle their rejection some day. The whole thing makes me wonder at my own sanity. I guess once again I've proven that I'm the aspie that experiences emotion at a more accute level... that almost makes me feel mental because I feel like I've attached myself to someone out of my lonliness that couldn't possibly feel the same way about me. I have heard people say "it will be ok, the feelings in time will diminish" but I don't think I'm so shallow that I can look at this person and not feel attached to them. Friendships just don't last for me, people have walked out of my life too many times, and this to me is an hourglass. I feel like I was given a glimpse at what friendship feels like but is only an illusion, or a dream, and as the hourglass runs out so will this, like any dream, eventually come to an end. It feels very painful for me to be reminded of something I want but don't have and feeling the time watch running down.

Hi There,

I'm a few weeks younger... I'm glad to hear you feel therapy is helping you, I on the other hand struggle to find a therapist who will even talk to me... and knows what adult AS is... as I feel that Drs generally think AS is a childhood issue.

I too get very attached to those who I feel close to and break down when they push me away... and it doesn't help when the circle of friends is like 2-3 people and most turn out to be fair weather friends.

What's transference? Is it anything like transubstantiation? Any symbolic cannibalism involved?

He who loves 50 people has 50 problems

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd3Mt8JBBBg[/youtube]

Having had six therapists in the past 30 years, I've never once managed any transference. So leaving them was not a problem. But I've a friend (non-NT) who has very intense transference issues with therapists, and melts down sometimes when leaving one. So I've heard about this from her, and I've read Atwood's book in which therapy is discussed in depth.

The end of your therapy may be easier than you expect, since it will presumably end long after the transference phase is over, and when you are ready to leave. A good therapist will not abandon you or reject you. And of course a good therapist will not go through the same emotions you're talking about, since therapists are trained, competent professionals (ideally, anyway).

Friendships don't last for most people. Even the best friendships don't last more than seven years on average (according to psychological research). All you can do is make friends and be glad you've had the ones you've had, and look forward to having more. Of course, you can also do things to improve your odds of making new friends, too.

I'd like a layman's definition of transference as well. Just went on wikipedia and read the first paragraph but I'm confused! Could someone please explain it for a simpleton like myself and maybe give an example? Then I can understand better the topic here.

I think this website (I'll just copy and paste) describes transference the best:

Transference was identified by Sigmund Freud when he noticed that his patients often seemed to fall in love with him - including the men. Fortunately, he realized that this was caused by something other than his magnetic personality...

Transference is...

Transference occurs when a person takes the perceptions and expectations of one person and projects them onto another person. They then interact with the other person as if the other person is that transferred pattern.

In the way we tend to become the person that others assume we are, the person who has patterns transferred onto them may collaborate play the game, especially if the transference gives them power or makes them feel good in some way.

Typically, the pattern projected onto the other person comes from a childhood relationship. This may be from an actual person, such a parent, or an idealized figure or prototype. This transfers both power and also expectation. If you treat me as a parent, I can tell you what to do, but you will also expect me to love and care for you. This can have both positive and negative outcomes.
Types of transference

Paternal transference

When we create paternal transference, we turn the other person into either our father or an idealized father-figure. Fathers are powerful, authoritative and wise. They protect us and tell us what to do. They know many things. They provide a sense of control in our lives. They make us feel safe.

We often transfer as a four- or five-year old child, where 'father knows best' and the pattern is one of trust and compliance. When we regard higher-level leaders (e.g. a company CEO, the transference may be as a baby, where the father is distant, powerful and protective.

Male managers in companies often encourage paternal transference by taking on the mantle and behaviors of classic fathers. They assume wisdom. They speak with authority. They reassure us that all will be well if we do as they tell us.

Maternal transference

We develop relationships with our mothers at much earlier dates, and so take on roles of babies more than children.

In our early years in particular, mothers are the source of unconditional love. After the separation of birth, they recreate unity by holding us and making us feel as one. Mothers also are the source of ultimate authority, and the threat of separation is very powerful.

Mothers appear in myth as both the fairy godmother and also the wicked witch, and we often have ambiguous relationships with them. We can also become Oedipal in our desire to be the sole focus of attention of our mothers.

Maternal transference is thus often deeper, with more primitive and emotional elements than paternal transference. Women managers often have excessive expectation put on them that they will nurture their staff, who then become disillusioned when this does not happen (hence the manager becomes cast as a witch).

Sibling transference

When parents are absent in our childhood, we may substitute these with sibling relationships, either with brothers/sisters or with friends. This is an increasingly significant pattern as families fracture and mothers spend long hours at work and are often away from the child during the critical early years.

People with preferences for sibling transference work well in horizontal, team-based organizations, as they do not fall into the leader-seeking behaviors of parental transference. This can also lead to greater anarchy as we ignore leaders and work through networks rather than needing a controlling authoritarian hierarchy.

A note: Bill Clinton was the subject of sibling transference more than other US Presidents. He could thus get away with being the 'naughty older brother' that is secretly admired for his boldness.

Other transference

We also transfer non-familial patterns onto other people. In fact we invariably treat others not as they are but as we think they are, and often as we think they should be. Thus we form stereotypes, and transfer these patterns onto others. We also form idealized prototypes, for example of policemen, priests, doctors and teachers, and project these onto people when we need the appropriate roles. Thus when a person is hurt in the street and another stops to help, they may have a doctor pattern transferred onto them.

Are you expecting your relationship to end with your therapist any time soon? It doesn't sound like you are but I'm not sure. It isn't insane that you would think of it as a loss when the time comes, because it is a real loss. But usually your therapist won't cut you off until you are ready unless you are doing a therapy that is meant to be only several sessions long like CBT, they feel they absolutely aren't equipped to treat you, or you have issues on your end such as finances and insurance. But it can't go on forever of course. When taking courses in counseling and clinical psychology therapists learn how to make appropriate closure and any good one will have you discuss those feelings before your relationship ends. They want things to end on good terms for both parties, as they have to go through their own feelings regarding the termination. If the relationship isn't ending anytime soon as far as you know I would try not to stress about it for now because it will probably get in the way of the work you are trying to do. However it the thought is consuming you than maybe it should be brought up if you feel comfortable because it could probably lead to a good discussion about how you deal with loss in general and the negative experiences you have had in the past that you want to try to avoid without avoiding forming relationships altogether.

In the end it should be helpful just because the relationship will hopefully end in a healthy way and not just be someone walking out on you with no warning or reason. But I definitely understand how you feel.

I don't really know when the therapy will end, we've never discussed any time frame. I thought about asking, but deliberately did not because I'm afraid I will not like the answer. Part of me feels like it might be a good idea to talk to him about this, but I'm too afraid of what he'll say. It may sound like I'm overly-exaggerating, but I keep visualizing him saying "I think you should see another therapist" and regardless of whether or not this is appropriate, I don't think I would, and I'd feel rejected on a whole other level. I'd feel like I screwed up the entire process. It's hard to read about how people with aspergers are apparently so clueless when it comes to "love" and will mistake peoples intentions, etc. I'm not trying to say I'm in love with him, but transference actually feels like a form of love, to me. I mean, isn't friendship a form of love? So here I am feeling this bond, or connection with him, and its very strong, and the pride in me is saying "this isn't right, he may not even like you, he may only tolerate you for a paycheck at the end of the week". And because of having aspergers I'm afraid he is going to think "she doesn't even know what this really is" when in actuality, I really think I do. It's just painful for me. It's extremely rare for someone like me to get any support at all that is caring and supportive, at least, I have yet to have that. Nothing in my life has ever been unconditional. So while I know transference is only an illusion, it's still a new strong feeling to be in the presence of someone that is actually listening, responding, appears genuine, non-judgmental, and caring. I know it's not so strange after my other negative life experiences to latch onto this and want to hold onto it, I don't know if I can just let it go one day. I'm afraid it will send me spiraling into a deeper depression. You can't experience something like that, at least, I don't think I can, and then turn it off and walk away from it. The phrase "too far gone" comes to mind, because I feel like I am in more ways than one, and it's a terribly scary feeling.

Maybe I've just never experienced transference.. but I don't really understand. Isn't the goal of therapy usually to get to a point where you feel comfortable without the therapist, so that therapy would just be a burden? Also, it's not like a therapeutic relationship has to just suddenly end. Don't most people kinda taper off?

I guess therapy has just almost felt like nothing but a burden to me. Most of the therapy I've been in has been forced or at least heavily pressured.
But if the therapy is helpful, I think some people taper to like an occasional "maintenance" level.. Like once a month, or every couple of months, so you have the chance to get stuff off your chest if you don't have that somewhere else.
I guess it's something I have trouble understanding... most of the therapy I've been in has either been terrible or just kinda neutral. A lot of *grumble grumble gotta yank myself away from the computer to go talk to the freakin' therapist* kinda stuff.. Not to mention having to drive there (or when I was younger, be stuck in the car with my mother..) The general waste it felt like to spend that much money just to talk to somebody.. somebody who rarely had anything useful to say.. I went because I was *supposed* to, and I tried to get something out of it because I was *supposed* to.. but it always seemed so.. BORING. I'd be in therapy, looking at my watch or the clock.. wanting to leave..

Wow, I didn't know transference was a normal part of therapy and it meant the therapy was working. My mom has had lots of therapy and I always wondered why she seemed to like it so much...that's probably why. She is experiencing this transference thing and it keeps her wanting to go to therapy sessions.
I've never really liked therapy at all, it must be because I never experience this "transference" and I feel uncomfortable sitting with the therapist thinking of things to say.
If you experience the transference and it's considered normal in the theraputic process, you might as well stick with this therapist and see what happens. The transference could fade some. I think I have experienced this before, but not in therapy. It's more about things I am into and the transference gets weaker as time goes on. Maybe yours will weaken as well and that's a normal part of the process, too?