Do you consider NVLD to be part of the Autistic Spectrum?

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I do consider it a part of the ASD. Even though its not in the DSM (At all) for the most part from what I can tell it is.

If you read into the female manifestation of AS and the occurance of NLD in females you get to the point in these case studies you realize you are reading about the same people. Basically, the manifestation is almost identical.

The problem is the crossover between NLVD and AS is to significant to distinguish between the two. To say NLVD is less severe is also a fallacy. The best way to put it is parrell intersecting Developmental Disorders that share common traits. NLVD is now seen as more common in females, even though its traits are very close to the common female manifestations of AS. Which kind of tells me...its the same damn thing.

Think of traditional AS as the male manifestation, and NLVD as the female manifestation. These two manifestations can intersect. Even the diagnostic guidelines for school professionals (neuropsychs) doing evaluations recommend that in many cases NLVD traits is a red flag for a possible ASD (usually AS, or PDD-NOS).


I should note I got re-diagnosed with PDD-NOS. I still have NLVD, but I have enough autistic traits which justified the atypical autism diagnosis (plus the old diagnosis was Semantic-Pragmantic Disorder/NLVD...PDD-NOS is actually more fitting, since I am just an atypical manifestation when it gets down to it). For example, I stim, I get obsessed with subjects, I meltdown, I get over-stimulated. There is alot of cases of folks with NLVD who later get an PDD diagnosis, largely because it is more appropriate.

The only case where NLVD is NOT autism spectrum when the ability to read social cues is there, but there is visual deficits/Fine motore, but this is very rare. There is a move to define NLVD that requires the inability to read social cues to get the diagnosis, if thats the case, it is probably a form of ASD.

(By the way, I can't fake normal even if I tried. But I do come off pretty friendly and inviting, but this is only a recent occurance. As a kid people just saw me as a weird creature meant to be abused. I felt completely alienated.)

If NVLD and AS are both PDDs.. Is PDD not on the autistic spectrum? I could be wrong, just wondering.

PDD-NOS, or atypical autism, is definitely on the autistic spectrum. It actually makes up just over half of it.

Upon further investigation, I really think NVLD would easily fit into PDD-NOS; it is essentially very much like Asperger's without part of the activities & interests subgroup.

People with NLD aren't supposed to have the deficits in empathy and communication (pragmatics) as seen in AS though (autism has semantics in addition to pragmatics), so the social difficulties are nowhere near as striking and evident. Plus, the restricted range of interests aren't as intense.

My doctor told me that lack of empathy was very common for someone with NVLD when I was diagnosed, and that it was part of the disorder.

Check this.

I didn't think I really fit NLD things (except autistic things, of course) until I saw this: "with inability to form visual images".

I think it's AS just a different name.

Is that supposed to mean that they consider NVLD an autistic spectrum disorder or they don't? I'm always confused.

From what I understand, they don't consider it apart of the Spectrum.

Nevermind I just re-read teh whole thing adn missed a batch of it.. I think they do consider it apart of the spectrum though I think more of a its "the cousin of an autistic spectrum" kind of thing. idk.

It just shows that empathy isn't really affected that much in NLD compared to AS/AD. It does have one + against it (0 means no problems), whereas AS/AD have the full ++++.

So, he was right in saying that empathy is affected, but I wouldn't call it a core area going by the little graph down the bottom of the page ("lacking empathy" would be a little extreme in regards to NLD).

I only know what my doctor told me and what I experience myself. I know things hurt other people but I often don't understand why, and I have problems with knowing that others think and feel things differently from me. I really think it depends on the person, not just whether it's AS or NVLD.

I'm still confused about what makes a person NLD or AS... the appearance of interest in being accepted by peers? of initiating social contact, even if unwelcome?

my son was dx'd NLD and I expect a dx of something next week (what, I don't know, although I have a provisional dx of AS). my son wants to be connect with other people and has no idea what friendship really is, and he actively avoids situations where other people are physically present but can spend enormous amounts of time chatting online with people who share his interests. I'm the same. I enjoy limited social contact when it's on a topic that's interesting, but I don't seek out "friends" and actually prefer to be by myself.

I'm finding it difficult to advocate for my son in the classroom when the expectation is that he can be socialized and I'm not sure he can

Make it very clear he can't. TELL the teachers...listen this is a communication disorder that frequently leads to bullying. Socialization will be extremely difficult and PROTECTION should come first. Give him the option to go to the library for example during recess to decompress.

Also Pragmatics and Empathy issues are extremely common with NLVD, this has been noted in various sources. Pragmatics especially. The fact is there is alot of conflicting information with NLVD out there which is part of the problem. But MOST people with NLVD have the exact same social problems with AS except the highly specific special interest is not there. The best explanation of what NLVD has is asset focused interests which are generalized. The very fact is Doctors have acknowledged that the two can look VERY similar (the differences of what is noticed seems to be the differences between the manifestation of AS in men and the manifestation of AS in women, NLVD leans heavily towards the ladder). The other difference is NLVD is more commonly diagnosed with women. When one looks at the specifics in these case studies...one realizes NLVD is just probably a feminine manifestation of AS. The interests are more generalized, but they are still there. Thats why saying "its not an Autism Spectrum Disorder" is not necessarily accurate. When all the evidence of the manifestation of AS in women, is almost IDENTICAL to NLVD manifestation in Women, at least from a behavioral perspective.

this is helpful! thank you!

so, it comes down to focused interests more than our horribly awkward social interactions... then I'd have to say my son is AS or HFA because he's absolutely obsessed with 2 things. he can do other things, although mostly reluctantly and more willingly if there's a reward system in place. his things are his computer (graphics and gaming) and music (listening and playing drums)... he's actually like a walking catalog of hard rock.

he's in a behavioral classroom now and they've labeled him as disruptive and defiant. he gets mad when he's not given an explanation for things and will act out in some spectacular ways to get out of the situation, which I can totally relate to since I did the same thing as a kid. I hated adults just expecting me to know things and I would cry because they made me feel stupid.

I want to find out if he's AS or NLD because I think he'll get better support if he's dx'd AS. it sounds stupid, but people don't seem to understand his sensory issues and difficulty in putting 2 and 2 together aren't things he has control over.

personally I can see very little difference between NLD and AS. not having a "special interest" might be accounted for by the expression of ADHD traits since ADHD people get distracted by shiny things anyway, and then I think there are the emo auties who are more affected by emotion than detached from them. but that's just my 2 cents, which might only be worth 2 cents.

I think that "autism" is not a spectrum, but a "ballpark". "Autism" can have various learning profiles, various neurocognitive properties. Brains of children with NVLD are different than the brains of the children with "classical" forms of AS and HFA. For me all "NVLDs" are in the same group as autism and should be named in one word.

Intellectual disability may have different reasons and profiles, why PDD (ASD, Asperger's) could not??? I think that one person with ID may have VIQ 60 and PIQ 35, but other may have PIQ 65 and VIQ 30. They still have an intellectual disability. One person with Asperger's may have relatively good theory of mind, other may have worse. For me the most significant traits of Asperger's are in social, behavioral (also in emotional) areas. Not in cognitive, sensory etc.!

The first criterium of autism and AS in ICD-10 and DSM-IV is about serious dyssemia (impairment in nonverbal communication). Due to my "profound" developmental dyssemia I may look like a "stupid" person. I was named as "down" or "idiot" in the secondary school, who "founded" me AS diagnosis. I has many strange, strong interests which were once named "manias" as one boy who was in my class in elementary school. I do not feel the need of being loved so much (also the need of parental love).

I think that NVLDers are a subgroup of Aspies. "Aspiedom" is not about visual thinking, severe theory of mind deficits, rigid mind (such things are traits of "Kannerism" for me, not all "autism")... It is developmental phenomenon which has really negative impact on someone's socio-emotional state. I named Asperger's and similar conditions, such as HFA and NLD, as "aucorigias" (aucorigia - form "autocontrast" and "originality" which means asynchronous development combined with bizarrity (such as "weirdness" or obsessiveness). Everybody with AS or NVLD (also someone with subclinical (phenotypical) AS is an Aspie for me. I am moderately functioning aucorigian now, but I should be high-functioning due to my neurocognitive abilities (and think that I will be later). I have quite unpleasant situation in the family. I am on the studies, which are hard for me, also due to my obsessiveness. Some people with aucorigia, which I meet in the Internet, are fascinating for me. I am "obsessed" about Aspies. I rather do not consider myself as an Aspie. My mentality looks like a rare mixture of NT, NLD and ASD (AS and McDD) - my mentality is a mental "hybrid". I do not know if I have NLD. I am good in Maths, in the exam on the end of the secondary school I had VERY good results in Maths, although about 16 months earlier I had VERY POOR grades in Maths. Due to having a PDD I received extra lessons in Maths. It is interesting what I would do now if I hadn't been diagnosed with a PDD. Maybe I would not be on the studies?