learning

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hi to all, i was wondering about learning, i have a 10 yr. old daughter with AS and we home school i was curious if anyone knows if AS children learn better if there is alot od color or black and white. we use black and white but i would like to try it with color. any advice thanks deanna

hi, im an aspie and i think i would find colours very distracting...i couildnt handle it but im no educationalist either but just the thought of it makes me cringe...no way.
keep it simpole plain colours please
for me

Spatial organization helps me more than anything else. If something is laid out in a useful pattern, then it's more easily learned.

Colors can be used for color-coding, but they should not be overwhelming.

If your daughter is like a lot of people with AS, she probably has good rote-memory skills (though she may not enjoy memorizing things). Test this to see if it is useful (it may or may not be).

As things go, Aspies are pretty good at learning since by definition their IQs are normal or better; it's the special interests and lack of social skills that can interfere with school. I'm currently learning how to use schedules to corral my special interests so that they don't cause me to fall behind in schoolwork.

Helping your daughter to organize her day can be very good; but you have to be sure that the organization becomes internal (chosen by your daughter) after a while; otherwise, when she moves out of the organized environment, she'll be at a loss as to what to do.

A note: Every Aspie is different; your daughter knows herself best. She herself may be able to give you some tips on how to help her!

[If your daughter is like a lot of people with AS, she probably has good rote-memory skills (though she may not enjoy memorizing things). Test this to see if it is useful (it may or may not be).

As things go, Aspies are pretty good at learning since by definition their IQs are normal or better; it's the special interests and lack of social skills that can interfere with school. I'm currently learning how to use schedules to corral my special interests so that they don't cause me to fall behind in schoolwork.

ok good advice this...but watch it.....rote learning is one thing..but when it comes to abstract concepts like algebra, calculus, trigonometry....physics and the deeper sciences then i think your in trouble....aspies can look and breath in stuff and remember it..but making links between a and b..this is where we fall down.
abstract concepts making connections between intent cause and result and understanding is difficult for us......high iq sure. low eq is where we come unstuck.
dont let high iq be the be all and end all.....

IQ was never really a good measure of overall intelligence anyway, aspies might have "normal iq or better" but the fact that many aspies have relationship problems means their intelligence is skewed to only apply to a limited set of problem domains.

Personally I'd rather be both intelligent and a social person, I look at my cousions who have great jobs and are getting married and I feel like my social skills are below those of most 13 year olds.

When you say black and white, I think of black and white as in "this or that" and color as in open-mindedness

I don't know, I can only suggest what I think would have worked best for me, which may not be helpful for anyone else, and ultimately it may come down to a matter of experimentation and trial-and-error. Trial-and-error, and communication with your daughter to see what works best, may be your most important tools here.


I think I always learned best with open-ended hands-on experience with the subject, in situations where there is no "right" way of doing things. Given the tools, material, and information to work with, I could try putting things together in various ways to see what happens, and ultimately reach the conclusions on my own. As to black-and-white vs. shades-of-grey, I think I would have preferred "neither" - rather, I think I generally did better recieving information and an idea of how cause-and-effect plays a part in it, the how-and-why of it, and then have an opportunity to put the information together in different ways to find the results out on my own. I would say that I got a good feel that way for there being a number of possibilties, but only a few that actually work effectively that way.




For examples:

Math didn't really "click" with me until my parents took to laying out piles of coins for me to add and subtract: it was being able to move and touch concrete objects that helped.


I think that learning computers, politics, and history worked that way for me, but it took a long time for me to reach a point where I could teach myself in that way.

So, when history went from "on X date, Y happened, and A, B, and C were involved" (as it was taught to me in public schools) to a matter of "because of U, V, and W, Y happened at Q, which was similar to what happened previously in other countries in the following ways...." (as I learned by teaching myself in college when I was supposed to be in class studying whatever the heck it was I was supposed to be studying in English Literature) - that's when I suddenly gained a great appreciation for history. Memorizing a collection of facts was less useful and definitely less enjoyable to me, than understanding HOW things worked, how events in history were related to each other, the reasoning behind the men and women who set events into motion, and so on.

Another example would be in computers, in which I learned more by sitting back, and changing things one at a time to see what happens, and then try to understand how they were related and how to predict the results of a similar change, and how to recognize it when that change was made. This would take the form of repeatedly "breaking" the computer or the program in various ways, to see what happens. (Or taking my toys, or clocks and things like that, apart to see what they look like on the inside and try to figure out how they work, much to the horror of my poor parents, who could ill-afford that sort of seemingly mindless destruction!)




My parents tried to teach me in every way they could think of how to tie my shoes and how to tell time on an analogue clock, and it quite visibly irritated, frustrated, and disgusted them that I couldn't figure it out. I wish I could offer an easy solution for something like that, but the only way I eventually learned how to do either one was after I recieved so much humiliation and abuse from my classmates at school for not knowing how to tie my shoes or tell time; I had to teach myself how to do both by paying an un-natural amount of attention to how my friend did it, and then locking myself alone in my room to try to duplicate it as best as I could, over and over, until I finally started getting it right.

Time, I suppose, should have been easy - most of my trouble with time had come from a bunch of mis-understandings which I took forever to get past (I'd concluded somehow that there were five minutes in every hour, and 12 hours in every day, and couldn't get past that.) Laying things out in a more concrete, spatial way first, before translating that into a clock face, might have worked better, I think!

Tying my shoes, on the other hand, is different - I just couldn't effectively hold all the steps involved in my head in the right order, until much later than "normal" students. I think I knotted and un-knotted my shoes until my fingers bled until I finally figured it out.

I guess what I mean is that I learned at what must have seen an insanely and frustratingly slow pace in certain things, and it might take years longer before someone like me is ready to learn certain things like that. I mention my problems with telling-time and tying-shoes, because perhaps that might reveal some insight into things that could give you problems and suggest ways to solve those problems that my parents and I might not see. Good luck in either case.



I was lucky to catch on to reading pretty quickly, though I had terrible motor control and it took me longer to write. I was reading complete novels before I started Kindergarten, and could read extended passages from the Bible, including complicated words I'd never seen beforee (this, my grandparents seemed to regard as miraculous.) My parents tought me to read by colour-coding the words in a simple child's book (one of the Little Golden Books, the ones with the shiny golden spines), using a line drawn in crayon under common words (red under "the", blue under "giant", etc.) They would read the book with me, and I would read the words that I could recognize out loud, sometimes using the coloured lines as a guide until I recognized the letters by sight. Then they would move on to different words (underlining the "the" in "them" and "they" in red, just like just plain "the" - I'd have to figure out how those words were different from just plain "the", and how the letters effect the way the word sounds out loud. In time I could do that with all the words in the book, and I myself, in first and second grade, taught my younger brother and sister how to read before they got into school, using the same method.)





Ultimately, my worst subjects throughout school ended up being mathematics (because i couldn't fit in and get along with my classmates, I stopped paying attention at one point in school, starting with long division, and never did catch back up in math), English (largely because I refused to do writing assignments, because I hated writing), penmanship (my handwriting is nearly impossible to read, one reason I hated writing), History (I just wasn't interested in all the confusing dates and names that didn't seem related or relevant in any way - in short, a complete failure to teach History effectively!), sports (I never understood the rules), and social skills ("getting along with others".)





My parents home-schooled me before I started Kindergarten and over summer breaks through my first few years of school, but never had any intention of completely home-schooling me in complete absense of public school, which I regret because public schooling was one of the worst experiences of my life, and definitely the worst influence! The only useful, positive things I ever learned were from my parents, and anything I taught myself. So, best wishes to you and your daughter,

y.

hi to all, so keeping it simple hmmmm so i should stick with the mostly black and white ???? as for math she struggles in thhis area especially with subtraction and when school begins we will be moving into division with remainders, i know she isnt ready for this so what should i do? and i should use objects for math is this correct??? so is it visual,spatuial or auditory for most aspies?? i am desperate i want to do what will be best for her. she does have a GREAT memory and that is how she does the math, and she does use counters to do subtraction. but how do we do division???? i dont really know her learning style she seems a little bit of all, so what do i do? thanks megans mom

There are so many terrific homeschool helps out there. I would suggest using manipulatives in Mathematics as much as possible. I even saw one program that taught some pre-algebra skills using manipulatives. I was trained (way back in school) to never use manipulatives but my kids have not been able to grasp math concepts without them. The memorization of facts can be learned through computer games and other such aids. With my son, we used a game-based curriculum (which we largely made up ourselves) through the first grade. He didn't seem to have any problems learning as long as it was a game. When he started second grade, we went to mainly workbooks and they were a bit plain. Not too boring but not the kind full of colorful pictures that read like a newspapaper with chunks of information in a more random layout. (I hate those!) They had consistent text with bold-faced headings, etc. He seemed to do well with it. It was Bob Jones, by the way. Ace Paces also worked well for early grades, but after about fourth grade, are somewhat lacking, especially in Science and Math. You will have to try different things for a set amount of time and see what works and what doesn't. Feel free to send me a private message if you want to discuss this further.

Well, objects and visual/spatial worked great for me, anyway... it wouldn't hurt to give it a try, but you may find that something else works well for your daughter.

When I do division, I break things up into groups... it's hard for me to describe, but with objects:

35÷7=

Count out 35 beans... now you are going to divide those beans into 7 equal groups... there will be five in each group. In a lot of ways, that's how I do division in my head. Of course memory helps out, and those infernal memorized division and multiplication tables do help out (Oh, how I loathe those, and hate to admit they help!) But I usually use a combination of memory and a mental version of "bean-counting"

Should be easy to do on the table with real objects, but I wouldn't know how to tell someone to do it mentally. If your daughter learns it with real objects, though, no doubt she can teach herself to do it in her head later on.



Oh, do you have an abacus? I don't know if you can even still find one anymore in an age of electronic calculators, but that might be helpful as well. (I hope that 'abacus' is the right word and that you know what I mean: it's a wooden frame, with sliding beads on rods, used for counting? It's like piles of coins/counters/beans/whatever, but more self-contained and organized! And it makes a nice *clicking* noise when you slide the beads over!) Perhaps it would look a bit strange at school these days, but if it works, who can argue with that? I know I put it to good use back in the 1970's in early elementary school, when teachers had a zillion of them in the classroom. I don't remember if it was any good for multiplication and division, but it worked very well for addition and subtraction!


Anyway, this may not be the best way in your case, but it's how I do it, so maybe it will work for your daughter.


I'll be happy to clarify anything I garbled, feel free to ask!


Best wishes,
Y.

I'm not sure what "manipulatives" are, but it sounds like Bland has got some great ideas.

I forgot all about the workbooks! I hated them at the time, I think, but I guess they worked.


Oh, and one other thing: when you said you were anxious, that rang a bell, and I recall my parents were pretty anxious that I wasn't doing as well in school as I should have... that anxiety showed through later on when the home-schooling was basically tutoring to keep me up to the speed of my classmates, and easily became frustration and irritation with me. Learning should be fun (at least for me, I loved and still love learning everything I can!), try to keep things in a calm, relaxed pace, and expect to make mistakes and be surprised, and don't let that shake you or your daughter! In many ways, the time you'll be spending with your daughter, and how you spend it, will be more important than reaching goals x y and z - teaching her how to learn, and how to enjoy learning, will, I believe, be a far more important accomplishment than teaching her, for example, division alone.

I say this, because in my case, public school tended to be a nightmare and trying to make up for it at home while my parents were anxious, frustrated, bored with trying to explain something for the 50th time, and annoyed because I wasn't catching on... that couldn't have been the best alternative! (Still much more enjoyable and more effective than public school, but....) I think, though, in retrospect that they were missing the forest by focusing on the trees - for example, they exhausted themselves in an effort to teach me to tie my shoes that might better have been spent instead on teaching me how to figure it out in my own way, which is what happened eventually anyway! I don't think they ever completely understood how I learned or how my brain worked, and missed an opportunity to find out; sadly, to this day, I think I have been a mystery and a disappointment to them.

hi to all, thanks for all the advice. there is alot to consider i wish there was a book with simple instructions telling me what i need to do. i was actually going to try the ACE for science and history. we have been using rod and staff. for math,spelling,english. it is all black and white no color and she does well with it, but i am concerned about the math. the beans and the counting rods sound great i think i will try to find some, i have actually seen some on ebay. so you used bob jones??? i thought that might be a little to much. what math curriculum did you use? did you use bob jones also? my daughter will be in the 4th grade. by the way how do i email you? how do you know if she is a visual learner? i get so confused with all the learning styles like i said it seems like she has a little of them all. thanks deanna

After using the Bob Jones stuff for a couple of years, he seemed to do very well with it. I think consistency is key. He actually began to be a self-directed learner. Then I put him in public school! Now he is in special ed. He really has grown alot socially and gained alot of maturity through the experience. We take it on a year by year basis. He loves school and I'm not sure he would take to homeschooling again. The kids are nice to him.

You said it. Every person has different learning styles and preferences in each subject. Just curious, have you tried any of those DVD or computer programs?

(You can send a private message by clicking on the pm icon at the bottom of the posts.)

yagaloth, you are so right on about learning things own her own. i did worry about her shoes but she just tied them one day and you know what if she hadnt have i would have just bought her shoes that didnt tie. i doubt your parents are dissapointed in you. every day is wonderful with some cringing also but hey nobody is perfect not even the regular kids. another thing NORMAL what is normal???? my sister in laws little boy is a terror no respect mean to other kids (megan also)and there is nothing wrong with him!! ! my daughter is very loving,sweet and kind and she has AS go figure i told my mother in law i think megan is NORMAL and something is wrong with the rest of the world really though what is NORMAL? who is normal? i dont reckon i have anything wrong with me....but i dont think i am normal. thanks megans mom

Normal is a highly subjective word. I prefer typical or average. (when choosing descriptive words, that is)

Most of us seem to learn through rote memorization skills. I know I did. As far as colors go, a lot of colors can be confusing for me when I am trying to retain information. I have to re-read things more often when there are color mixtures. I get distracted in Word because of the colored underlining the software uses, so I tend to turn that off.

I learned math skills by counting on my fingers. It was something that the school seemed to not like, but I simply didn't care. I just did it anyway. I never really memorized times tables the way most people have. Instead, I count out numbers in sets in my mind. Certain times tables I've memorized, such as the 5's and 9's, because there's identifiable patterns to those. Others, like 8's and 7's, the patterns are a bit more confusing, so I just count out the numbers in my head, usually quite quickly.

I still hate it when people ask me to do math problems. I have to write things out, sometimes even simple problems. And I'm quite good in math in many ways, but social situations, and the fear of saying the wrong thing, can cause simple mistakes.

As for reading, well I speed read. I understand what I read, but I usually don't understand concepts in stories and whatever. I just see words, and I read them. And I tend to read extremely fast, so fast at times that I read faster than my eyes can see, and I can screw up word placements. Whether or not this is due to AS or something, I don't know for sure. I can write really well and place thoughts into words with no problem, but I can't read and visualize at the same time. It's just something I can't do.

I have no idea how to approach reading that makes it any easier. Comprehension became better as I grew older, but I still have trouble comprehending things in stories that aren't directly stated. Everything I do is more or less visual.

- Ray M -