Social Phobia

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Could a person be social phobic without being aware of being anxious or scared or anything? Im sure people must think I am but the way Id interpret it im just passive. When would you consider a person to be shy? Or when would you consider it to just be a 'character issue', that the person just isnt nice or something? A few years ago I wouldnt even have said hello to someone unless I had known and been around them regularly and had time to get used to them for a good while, often nearly a year. Or could I have just read too much? Im right brained but without the 'social savvy' thats supposed to go with it, and somehow came out systemiser/extreme systemiser or something on those eq/sq tests online. Im not sure something like aspergers fits me, in some areas yeah but other than that if anyone ever did decide I have it id be a pretty unusual expression of it. My confidence is just fine, I know what im good at and I know what im not so good at and am honest with myself. My facial expressions may not be appropriate at times, like I have people come up to me telling me to cheer up or that I look cross or something when Im relaxed and content or just thinking about something. Should being 'nerdy' hold a person back, not that I consider myself to be but some might in one topic? What other reasons are there for weak social skills?

If Asperger’s isn’t an exact fit, you can call yourself a “cousin” and still hang out with us.

I think I can relate to some of what you say. The “flat affect” makes people read things that are not there. I call it “hallucinating.” People project so much onto me that I often feel like a walking mirror. People who don’t like themselves tend to hate me instantly.

I spent a big chunk of my life thinking I was mildly depressed, but it’s just that I run a low emotional temperature. My emotions emerge slowly and are usually easy to control. I can’t name them quickly enough to suit some people because they don’t exist yet.

Also, I have some kind of communication disorder that I can’t really pin down. Talking to a group of people, especially if I don’t know them well, is impossible. I don’t know how anyone can make a speech to a big group. So many complicated factors going on all at once.

I think the main reason for my social difficulties is that I really am different. They can’t guess what I’m thinking because I’m not like them. Even if they could sit through an explanation, they wouldn’t get it. Then again, if they did understand, they'd probably need to kill me.

Asperger's without social phobia exists, and I'm one of many such people. I mean, sure, I embarrass myself regularly; but I don't really care to make friends, and don't care much what people think (unless it's a legitimate gripe they've got with me, because I do care whether I hurt people, and care a lot). So if you don't care about rejection, why would you have social phobia? Autism minus social phobia is either somebody who really has very little interest in other people; or else somebody who is confident (not overconfident--that way lies narcissism and a lot of hidden anxiety) enough to accept that he pretty much sucks at socializing and do it anyway, because if somebody's enough of a jerk to reject him for being eccentric, then why'd he want to hang out with them anyway?

In an ideal world, people with Asperger's would develop social phobia at the same rate that neurotypicals would; but the environment of constant rejection that many of us live through tends to give all but the most aloof introvert a pretty bad case of social phobia at least sometime in his life. The good news seems to be, though, that many of us resolve this problem eventually, and become able to interact without constant fear.

My opinion, OP? You don't have social phobia; you're just very introverted. Unless you're so out of touch with yourself that you don't know when you're afraid (very unlikely), you don't have a phobia if you're not actually scared or avoiding things because they scare you. It's not surprising that you might be an introvert if you have autistic traits, because people with autism are introverts at a much higher rate than the general population. But if you don't care about what people think of you, why would you have a great deal of anxiety?

Some introverts do have weak social skills, from lack of practice. However, that would be the extreme introvert--almost to the point of schizoid personality--because most regular introverts have a small circle of close friends that they do most of their socializing with. While such introverts likely won't be experts at socializing, simply being introverted doesn't mean that they're clumsy at it.

Callista wrote

Yep lack of experience would give you weak social skills. I missed a year and a half of school when i was 14/15 and i noticed the difference when i got back and it took a while to fit in again. 2 years later i was mostly on top of things again but still, it probably wasnt a good thing for me to miss so much. 3 of my cousins were home schooled and it shows but I still wouldnt classify any of them as 'weird'.

What do people mean by socially 'clumsy' by the way?

I've got very high paranoia, which can hold hands with social phobia. I'm so scared of what other people are thinking of me, that I'm letting it take over my life. I'm scared to get out there and mix with other youngsters, because young girls are the worst to mix with when you're somebody with paranoia, because they're mostly the cause of it, even in NTs. I think girls aged between 14 to about 24 are the worse to mix with, because all they do is judge eachother about one another's clothes, personality, looks, hairstyle, and even weight. And I hate being judged by other young females. It's part of social anxiety/phobia, especially when you're unconfident like me. Usually young females can pick up on confidence too - especially if they're all confident and you're just there to ''make up the number''. I hate tagging along behind a crowd of teenagers who don't really want to know me at all. When I go and see my cousin, she always wants to go out and hang out with these loud, rowdy teenagers, and it really isn't my idea of entertainment or company. I'll rather see my own friends (who are older and mature), and go for coffee or cinema, or just chat at home. I hate hanging around the town with loud, immature teenagers who have nothing in common with me - why should I feel I should put myself through something what I don't find very enjoyable? I know I'm acting like a 50 year old, and I know I'm being a boring old fart, but I have a fear of socializing with teens, and it makes me feel like a fish out of water, and there's nothing I can do about it. Her friends are all NTs, all love facebook, all have really handsome boyfriends, all dress up and have 100% fashion sense, and all are pretty and chatty to eachother. And there's me, tagging along behind them, not knowing what to say, not really liking the people, and feeling bored out of my head. But if I stay indoors with my mum and her sister, they will tell me that I should go out and mix with them. Ohh, it's awkward being me - and I can't change myself. I have Aspergers Syndrome, which is a mild form of Autism - it will be hard to just get up and happily go out with a load of rowdy teens, knowing exactly what to say and do. Ohh - I hate having a brain where the social cells are missing. It's rather difficult to carry on living in this crazy, cruel, NT world.

My daughter's social phobia is perhaps the most debilitating aspect of AS for her. She is genuinely ANXIOUS about mixing with other people and I don't know why. She has never been hurt by anyone but as far back as I can remember she has seemed genuinely afraid of others. This is the root of the no eye contact for her (why would you look at something you're afriad of?). She clings to me as her safety person when we are anywhere with people. I sometimes think if we lived far out in the middle of nowhere all alone her AS would be fairly nonexistent-her social phobia is the root of all her social skills deficits and even exacerbates her sensory difficulties. It compounds upon itself because then people see her and judge her and think she's weird. Even as young as one year old I would take her to storytime and she would cling to me and watch the other children as if they were crazed animals. It's so difficult because there is no "therapy" for social phobia. No medication makes it easier. The only "treatment" would be to self isolate, which my daughter wants to do more and more.

Until recently I haven't been bothered by my social phobia, although there's plenty of evidence I have it. To give one example, in the years I was forced to live in college dorms I spoke to very few of the other residents, including my roommate, if any. (For some reason they tended to move out by second semester.) I also got up in the middle of the night to use common facilities--kitchens, bathrooms, showers--alone. Still, I think back on those years fondly, and it is only now that I realize how um, alternatively I was acting.

Subsequently I was able to deal with people adequately in business, though they weren't overly fond of me, and I've even had a few loyal acqaintances who--it's really amazing--doggedly fought their way through my defenses. Still, no real friends.

This is beginning to bother me now because the only person I can talk to is my mother, who is in her mid-80's. Even with her I have a very limited "friendship," as we have totally different interests, but an unspoken agreement that I'll listen to her rattle on if she'll reciprocate. Soon I won't even have that. That's too much alone-ness even for me, so maybe I shouldn't have been so proud about not needing people--everyone needs some.

I've been diagnosed with it before but I don't think I have it. My anxiety can be explained by transitions, sensory issues, and just general anxiety. There's either no reason why I'm anxious, I'm anxious about transitioning between one place and another, or I'm anxious because I'm around a bunch of people who could overwhelm me. Who wouldn't be anxious?

I'm pretty sure I'm socially phobic - I avoid social situations because my mouth moves too fast for my brain; I say things before I've really thought them through and always end up looking awkward. I developed the socail phobia over the years 'cause people always thought I was wierd.

to the OP: you asked if a person could have social phobia and not really realize it. I'd vote "no" on this one -- I had it in my 20s, and remember trying to make myself go out somewhere, to a party... or a wedding... and I couldn't (I still feel a little guilty for missing that wedding). I'd be either just terrified or curled up in the middle of the living room floor crying (I lived alone). So I'd say if you had it, you'd know it.

Social phobia with me is it's not what I say, it's what I do. I keep asking myself, ''do I look unconfident? Will they pick up on that and immediately think I'm unconfident and boring without giving me a chance? Do I stim and not know it? Do I stand/sit/walk stiffly instead of looking cool and relaxed? Will they laugh at me behind my back? Are they judging me?'' and so on. So I worry more about what they're thinking of me than what I'm actually saying. I think my speech is pretty good for an Aspie, but the way I act is difficult for me.
When my NT teenage cousin brings a mate round (usually she brings a different mate round each time), I never know her mates and I don't want them to know I'm an Aspie, because most teenagers laugh at people with disabilities, and also I don't always know how to be around them, so I've got to put on my ''NT front'' (which is tiring), and try and act cool - just to impress them. (I'm only 2 years older than my cousin, and sometimes she brings a mate round who's the same age as me or a year younger). I don't mean I impress them in a sexual way (no way!) I meant I try to impress them to make them think I'm witty or cool. And because most teenagers judge other people more than anything, especially if they are confident in themselves and you have no self-esteem - they will pick up on it. And I don't want my cousin being embarrassed by me either.
And I'm not the sort to go around telling everyone I see that I'm an Aspie. As soon as my cousin and her friend enters my house I can't just say, ''oh I'm an Aspie, please excuse my difference, if any,'' and expect them to know exactly what it is and socially accept me, and seize the day (whatever that means). I know they will just look at me and think I love myself or something. I don't like telling all and sundry about my personal abilities and disabilities anyway - it's never been in me. Plus the fact that I'm ashamed of it.

Anyway, even if I did tell them it would never help my social phobia.