Freedom of thought. Why do people never ask WHY?

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I hear so often people saying "I dislike NTs because.... Or aspies are better because...."

I think the real determination between people should not be between one condition and another. It should be between those who think for them selfs and ask "Why?" and those who accept any thing that they are told.

Those who ask why is the system like this? Why do people do this? How does that work? Whats really going on in the world? Should I accept this view just because every one else does?

And those who go. 6 billion people cant be wrong. Lets buy that thats cool. Lets get drunk this weekend. I need to earn some money. That guys cars not very flash...


I think that the thing that seprates humans from lumps of rock floating in space is the fact we have a human mind! Why is there so many people that dont use it? That dont ask why? The education system is one example. They "teach" people to blindly memorize information and not really think for them selfs or create interest. And any one who questions this system not that many people seem to really question it are labeled as hypocrites or as trouble makers. When the people giving the labels are the real hypocrites.

People are too content with there day to day lives and fail to question or find out things that are really important.

The only way that this factors into the Aspie VS NT thing is because some aspies are not afraid to ask why? And the way alot of aspies minds work drives them to figure stuff out. It is mearly a side effect. It is not because aspies are actually any better than NTs. Its not really about that. There is also ALOT of aspies who are just like NTs in the way they accept things as they are and never ask why?.

I hope this makes sense.

My point was more that people follow what they are told with out questioning it. No matter how dangerous it really is and how it will effect them and others in the long runthey dont seem to care.

all they focus on is there daily lives and do not care about any thing remotely deep or actually important.

"The paradox of education is precisely this – that as one begins to become conscious one begins to examine the society in which he is being educated. The purpose of education, finally, is to create in a person the ability to look at the world for himself, to make his own decisions, to say to himself this is black or this is white, to decide for himself whether there is a God in heaven or not. To ask questions of the universe, and then to learn with those questions, is the way he achieves his own identity. But no society is really anxious to have that kind of person around. What societies really, ideally, want is a citizenry which will simply obey the rules of society. If a society succeeds in this, that society is about to perish. The obligation of anyone who thinks of himself as responsible is to examine society and try to change it and to fight it – at no matter what risk."

-James Baldwin

We the sheeple......

How can you post about the Valedictorians speech, and then ask a question on why we follow what an authority says without asking why.

Don't you understand that we are ingrained to not question authority from the first day we enter kindergarten. We are not allowed to ask if the teacher really knows what they are teaching us (that is for the state to decide) or what is correct. We are not even allowed to determine what we want to learn.

All of the edicts have the same effect as "Follow the group". "If you would act more like everyone else". Hell, the idea of NCLB is to standardize what everyone learns, in effect, making as many sheep as possible.

The problem is that our education system is designed to create people that the industrial revolution needed (sheep willing to follow orders without questioning them). Unfortunately, the post industrial revolution needs people who can think for themselves and that is exactly the type of person out education system does not create.

I can go into politics here too but then I will digress. Our sheep are created though and to the powers that be, for good reason.

of the United Fates

MOC,

You seem to employing the Socratic method, Socrates proclaimed that you "Question everything" If you ask all the right questions you often can get to the right of a probllem and most of the problems lie in society and the errenious beliefs that flow through it.

I bought a computer years ago and had no idea how one worked,just turned it on and read the for computers dummies book

Bought a house and thought nothing of taking on major remodeling projects

cars,if somebody figured out how to make one,I'm sure I can figure out how to fix one

I took shop classes in high school and all the easiest courses they had just to get it over with. Volunteered to do taxes at the senior center the last 2 years. I'm truely baffled that college educated people come in to have their simple tax returns done and how clueless many people are about the system.

Last edited by Johnnie on 15 Jul 2006, 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I do focus on my own life, but I see connections between personal and political systems/realities/bad habits.

I constantly ask "why" or "how". It annoys people & also depresses me because of how bad "the big picture" seems to be. I wish I could improve things, for myself & others. Being aware of misery that I cannot alleviate & injustices that I cannot right is excruciating-takes all my courage just to stay alive, knowing this.
I don't divide world into "NT" or "AS". I didn't grow up with this identity/label, so I don't think of AS as "who I am" primarily. I either identify with an individual or a group, or not-but it changes depending on situation. I tend to side with the "underdog", though it's not at all that simple.

Interesting points. I was never too into the whole "AS vs. NT" thing...I mean we're all human. Not everyone who was ever brilliant had AS, and not every aspie is brilliant, either. I really don't buy into this "superiority" bs. I mean, shit--personally I think Asperger's has screwed me up beyond belief, regardless of what creative gifts it has provided. Yeah, NT's are confusing, but that's just their way--just because we're different it doesn't make us better.

I did, however, have problems with this:

Oh yes they can. EVERYBODY can be wrong. In fact, I've found that if the masses believe it, chances are it's more likely to be wrong for some reason. I mean, the masses of Germany supported Hitler. The masses of Christians supported the Crusades during the time of the Crusades. The problem is that the masses always form a faction, or separate factions which like to think of themselves as more different from one another than they actually are. And when you have a faction...you've got problems. When people gang up, they take advantage of the fact that there's strength in numbers, and either do something great, or (more commonly) do something awful.

You know, I really wish we'd all just be a little bit more compassionate to each other. Myself included.

Indeed.

You would not be once you realize that even IRS workers can be baffled about the system. Twice I have confused the workers at the IRS office here in Rocehster MN

1) There to put 401k distributions on the 1040 form

2) How to handle the difference between business income when the customer is on the cash based accounting system and the client in on the accural based system.

The world is flat.

people will march through life doing whatever the local customs are and never think if it's right or wrong. If everyone cleaned up after their dog with their hands and than got something to eat without washing their hands,these people would all do it.

the indians used to think nothing of scalping people after they killed them or even before they where dead.

somebody did a test.
had a guy on a hospital bed in a room with a big window
the guy was strapped down and had all sorts of wires going to him.
In the hallway they had the wires running to a control box with a big control knob and somebody with a white coat asking people walking by if their would watch the guy for a minute while they went to the bathroom. Most people agreed and where told if the guy starts trying to break free and starts struggling to just twist the knob for 2 seconds and give him shock treatment.

Over 90% of the people mindlessly twisted the knob like they where told when the guy started to fight his restraints. They would zap the hell out of him over and over like it was no big deal

When the guy came back from the fake restroom trip he would thank them and they would say "you're welcome ' and walk away like it was nothing. Nobody became all crazy like what the hell are you people doing to that man in that room.

=========================
Humans are the most dangerous creatures on planet earth

1- is like a pension
2- I never did stuff like that,but would guess the tax client is all somebody should worry about,who cares what way his/her customers do their books.

anyone can get hired by the IRS that meets their qualifications as far as education. It don't mean they understand the system.

peoples fear of the IRS is way overblown,somebody got to be a real idiot to get in big trouble with them.Anything that looks like a mistake is no big deal,fraud is what gets them going. People can only act dumb to a point.


The funniest one was the 2 woman and their 93 year old mother
They had moved her into her own condo years ago and had her put it in their names.
Granny paid the mortgage and taxes just like it was her place and itemized deductions claiming the mortgage interest and property taxes for years on her taxes. It wasn't her condo even though she was paying the bills,it legally belonged to her 2 daughters

Than they sold the place and split the money and granny moved in with one of them.

Neither daughter ever lived in the place,so legally it was investment property

The 2 daughters are both standing there with like $80,000 each on their hands
I'm trying to convince one of them to go find somebody who is qualified to handle a mess like that than some volunteer at the senior center,she won't take no for an answer and thinks I can do something. I finally told the woman I never went to college and used to drive a truck and I could be the most expensive free help she ever got in her life. She got the hint I wasn't a tax accountant. A lot of them think the AARP hires tax accountants

Both daughters where married,both had jobs and where married to guys with jobs and they are standing their with $80,000 in their hands on top of what they earn at their jobs looking for a free tax return Granny was far from hurting either, she had a decent income,wasn't starving on just social security.

I'm amazed the real estate people and banker didn't set those people straight when they bought the condo years ago. 2 grown woman involed,their husbands must have heard something about the deal and for over a decade the whole pack of them sent in bad tax returns They had investment property by tax law. the 2 daughters & thier husbands where middle class people,not like a bunch of hicks that only graduated the 6th grade

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most people are 10 minutes,some minor withholding they need to file a tax return to get their little refund. It would cost them more than it was worth to pay somebody to get their money back.

OK... Well, that part of your post sort of contradicts the rest in implying that only Aspies have the capability of asking, "Why?" Whether I'm NT or not (though I've been officially diagnosed with two other doctors agreeing - not that that necessarily means anything, but I digress), I actually have met some good people (mainly teachers) who definitely are NT but have (attempted to have) taught their students to question authority, to ask why. I was moved by this aspect of my 11th grade history class. I guess I'm just lucky in that sense.


Thank you! Why is it that some Aspies stereotype NTs so harshly and entirely? Aspies aren't the only people who are people, if you know what I mean - just because an Aspie doesn't understand NTs (or the reverse) doesn't make them all inherently bad. I don't think it's right to generalize 199 out of 200 people, or whatever the figure would be (I'm practically pulling that figure out of my bum, but work with me here), with traits that probably don't even fit more than 175 of them. I understand, though, that people will generalize based on their own personal experiences, and I'm sorry that these people can't have had at least a few positive ones with some NTs, or that they choose to neglect them to satisfy their delusions. Even if you have had no positive experiences that you can recollect, it doesn't seem right to assume such experiences are impossible.

Now, whoever you are, you might be thinking, "Of course not all NTs are bad. I never said that!" Chances are, whether or not you're conscious of it, you've probably discriminated against NTs this way before. I don't see what benefit that has but to isolate us further. Whether we like it or not, the vast majority of the world is "neurotypical" (obviously), and I think it's unfair to dismiss all those people as stupid, superficial, or inferior.


Literalism, anyone? That's taken out of context. MindOfOrderedChaos was (trying to be) providing an example of a type of thinking he disagrees with.

Anyway, I call a reality check when it comes to the NT bashing. Keep in mind that just because Aspies as a population tend to have high IQs doesn't mean that no NTs share such intelligence. So thanks for pointing that out, MindOfOrderedChaos and Veresae. Don't think this rant is directed at anyone in particular - just at some negative trends I seem to see around here. And I apologize if this has been gone over before, if it has been done to death, or if it is too off-topic for this thread. I'd also like to use my mental state (it's 2:45 AM) as a shield to protect myself from any other criticism I may receive. (Just kidding. Kind of.) I won't likely respond if my post is torn up and analyzed, even if done in a proper, well-thought out manner, because I don't usually have the energy or will to write like this, but feel free to do it anyway.

*whites out all the insecure remarks he made in that last "paragraph" and shuts up*

It seems I have trouble getting my point accross. I am trying to get accross a very large idea out of my head... Only one of many but I find it hard to put to words.

I was trying to say the NT vs Aspie thing is mostly BS. But I must not of worded it correctly. Some of the intended meaning from it was that society conditions people to think in a certian way. And SOME aspies do not respond to the normal conditioning so can think in a different way. As also some NTs do. Really tho we cant say accross the board people are certain way because there is always people who are different.

I just have a problem with the ethics i see from most people. Supporting war. Accepting that death and poverty is a part of live and not caring. Also the fact that a great deal of people have been rased as it seems to not question any thing and do what they are told. Patriotism is another word for this.

My actual point does not contradic my other post at all. Infact my point is very similur to what is in the other post. Only I am not so good at communicating my ideas. Therefor most of my ideas stay trapped in my head and I can find no one who can understand them.