How did you distinguish between playful teasing and bullying

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For those with AS, I'm interested in what triggered you to feel teased when you were young. Also, as you've gotten older, did you learn to distinguish the difference between playful teasing and bullying or is it still impossible for you tell?

I have a ten year old boy who can not distinguish between playful teasing and bullying. He gets incredibly angry when ever any form of teasing happens. If we tease him at home, even if we tell him we're only teasing, he'll yell at us to shut up or even hit us if we don't stop. This is also causing problems at school...he often feels victimized or bullied by others but doesn't see how his own aggressive behavior and inability to "take a joke" or "be a good sport" contribute to the situation.

My husband and I have 2 schools of thought. He (has AS tendencies as well) believes that we need to somehow teach him how to distinguish between good natured teasing or pranks, and bullying...that we can accomplish this by teasing him and then explaining that we don't mean to hurt his feelings, that we're not being literal, that we're being silly, that we love him etc. That his quick temper in this area is a huge hindrance to his being able to make friends and we need to help him to not be so reactive or quick to assume that he's being attacked.

I, on the other hand...sometimes worry that our gentle teasing contributes to our son's overall sense of insecurity and victim-hood. That it upsets him and gets him into trouble (when he yells at or hits us) and that he may not be able to "learn" to understand the subtle difference between someone who is intentionally trying to hurt his feelings and someone who is just being silly.

I would rather have this here than in the parenting forum, because I'm interested in all opinions from those with AS as to how you felt, and whether you think we should continue to try and teach our son how to "take" playful teasing...or quit teasing him if it won't do him any good in the long run anyway.

Thanks!

I can't. I get very easily upset. I find it hard to differentiate between the two. But. To be honest most people DID properly bully me - I dont think anybody did it in a nice way: except for my granddad.

Do you think you still can't tell because you were never taught, or because it's inherently impossible for you to learn to make the distinction?

If people with AS can not learn to make the distinction, then it's probably better that we don't try to teach him, right?

I was an adult before I stopped taking playful teasing literally. I figured it was my self esteem telling me it was true. My son now has the same issues. I don't tease him because it's not in my nature really and I know he misinterprets playful teasing. It's all hostile as far as he's concerned. I told him sometimes people tease you because they like you. I had to arrive at that conclusion intellectually in my 30's.

Hah...well I unfortunately find it impossible to believe people like me so it doesn't work for me either way XD

I got this when I was little, now I have
a big mouth and if someone does to the
frendly tease thing, I tend to appear mouthy
or cocky, but I am just bullstooling back,
I don't mean to be mean.

I used to spout weird stuff like if someone
said "I'm gonna have to throw you out of here"
I said "Ok, but be sure you use the pavement softener
or I will sue for damages."

That was my isndide joke

Well flirting is a way of playful teasing. Not that I can do that. Too awkward.

You are right, and your husband is wrong. People on the spectrum often can't hear changes in tone of voice and facial expression that indicate someone is joking. It's not like a muscle that can be improved by forcing him to exercise it--it's more like he's blind, and your husband keeps trying to force him to "Look."

There was a thread on here back around Thanksgiving where someone was posting about how they didn't want to go home to celebrate with their family; they were always singled out for teasing because the family thought they were "teaching" them to have a sense of humor. MANY people responded to that thread that they were completely estranged from their families for that very reason. You could lose your son's love and trust if you keep treating him this way, instead of with respect.

I agree with you, but on the other hand, there are tools that can supposedly help an AS child to "fit in" better with NTs...such as "social stories" that illustrate how AS children should respond in certain situations in order to be socially "acceptable". The stories had titles like "how to give a hug" and "taking turns when you speak".

I've also heard about software that shows exaggerated facial expressions and prompts kids to try and recognize which emotion is being expressed (happy, sad, angry).

I guess my husband thinks that teasing (not mean teasing, but silly teasing) along with de-constructing it to show *why* it isn't mean spirited... will somehow help him recognize a situation where another child is teasing him because they like him..and not as a form of attack.

After all, some adults, (like Aimless), learn to compensate for some of their AS tendencies over time..so I'm left wondering if there is a way to set up a safe environment (for instructional purposes only) where we could show him...this is what playful teasing sounds like...this is what mean spirited bullying sounds like. I think it would be INVALUABLE to him to learn to tell the difference, as he alienates many potential friends by his reactive anger when they are often only joking around.

I so desperately want to help him avoid bullying, which seems never-ending for him already. I'm totally dreading middle school.

I'm a bit different. I know when people are being sarcastic but there is still a part of me that takes it literally.
I always overreact when my mum laughs when she talks about or hears the word "Asperger's". I know she isn't being mean but it's annoying how she always laughs. It stems from my family thinking of me as some kind of moron, and yes I do mean that in the literally way. They don't respect me. And she has the nerve to say "you've got to tolerate us", well tolerate me bi---. OK I'm ranting...

As a kid I took things more literally than I do now. It's just something I had to get used to because everyone is so sarcastic. It still annoys me when they are sarcastic, but if I'm ever to get along with a person I just have to ignore it.
As for your son...
There are facial recognition tests you can do online.
Why don't you with the help of a teacher show your son when kids are being mean or just friendly teasing?
I would also lay off teasing him in the home if you can, just while he learns the difference.
I don't like the idea of just randomly teasing him and saying it's friendly. It should be explained to him in the same way you would help him with homework; sitting down and talking it over.
With me I had to get used to letting hurtful comments go, even if they weren't meant to be hurtful. But as an adult it's easier for me than it would be your son.

I still have an automatic distrust of teasing & have difficulty telling whether or not it is malicious.

However, I did learn to not react to teasing - which eventually made it stop. No one teases me, but that seems to be the way that most Neuro-Typical people bond with others - so I find myself excluded from most social groups.

Reminds me of someone I used to know, and still occasionally run into, though don't talk to. He said some nasty stuff to/about me. Really insulting. And he did somewhere in there say it was playful teasing, and that I should learn to take it. The thing is, I do know how to take playful teasing. He, though was saying things about me that were both untrue and against my values.

Playful teasing really needs to take into account the perspective of the person receiving the teasing. Meet them where they are at. If they aren't getting it, don't keep doing it.

So, I'm inclined to say, don't tease your child if they find it hurtful.

I do like the idea of a structured learning environment to work on the issue.



Yeah, that's an issue. With the person I mentioned, it would have stopped a lot sooner had I just ignored it. I saw him as a friend, and wanted to work it out. I eventually gave up. No friendship with him. Not reacting doesn't build a friendship. But sometimes it is truly the right choice.

Discussing it, working it out, can work, though. I had one time I did some playful teasing (on an internet forum, so no non-verbals, and no immediate interacting) to someone. Someone I now realize definitely had autistic spectrum traits. A probable aspie, I think. He got pissed at me. He let me know how he felt. I assured him that I didn't mean anything unkind. We made up eventually. And I know not to try such teasing again because it will likely miss.

I guess I can

[quote="Step"] If we tease him at home, even if we tell him we're only teasing, he'll yell at us to shut up or even hit us if we don't stop./quote]

Maybe if he indicates you're hurting his feelings YOU SHOULD STOP. I think home should be a place where you feel safe and accepted. I, like many aspies, have become estranged emotionally from most of my family because I do not feel safe and accepted by a lot of them. It doesn't matter if they make me feel not-accepted deliberately or accidentally. It's not logical to spend my time with people who make me feel bad instead of good, whatever their motivation.

I agree with arielhawksquill. You may damage your son's sense that you are on his side if you keep teasing him after he lets you know it bothers him.

As far as recognizing teasing versus bullying, I assume teasing when the speaker is someone who generally treats me with friendship and affection, and bullying when the speaker has not put in the effort to build a good relationship with me. If you haven't bothered to be friends with me who the h*ll are you to be "joking" around with me? What's your motivation? That's where I make the distinction.

please please please PLEASE, DO NOT, under ANY circumstances, try to 'teach' your son how to 'handle' teasing without PROFESSIONAL help. You could be doing a lot more harm than good.

I was the opposite in a way. I didn't always recognise when I was being mocked, or I thought people were just teasing when (I realise now) they were actually being really nasty.

I always thought playful, even friendly teasing was bullying until a light switched on in my head around sixth grade. It felt, and still feels, like one of the biggest breakthroughs in my life. Before that, other boys would give me a friendly punch in my arm and I took it for an attack. This caused them to reject me or laugh at me, and sometimes led to real bullying. I don't recall clearly, but I think some kind person explained it to me. What I learned to do when someone punched me was to look at their face carefully and see if they were smiling. If they were, then I smiled back. It made all the difference in the world. I think someone had to tell me to look at their face to figure out the intent of the punch. I recall that I started working harder on decoding faces then. After learning the secret, the next time it happened, I smiled back, (with trepidation in my heart), but was rewarded with acceptance. That was a great discovery for me.

Later I worked up the courage to try the punch combined with the smile on other boys and see if I would get angry retaliation. When I got acceptance, it bolstered my confidence a lot and I started feeling more normal. (I also experimented with punch without smile, and punches with various facial expressions to experiment with people's responses so I could interpret these actions toward me as well as express myself better.) Note: most punches were gentle, although I did experiment with amplitude a bit. (What happens if you punch hard with a friendly smile? ) I should add that I was deeply puzzled how the same gentle punch would be interpreted differently when paired with a smile versus when not. It seemed to me that the punch was the major issue, not the face. To my mind, punches made no sense.

I think this issue when mastered is a key to understanding a wide variety of adult human communications. The punch-smile bonding display is kind of how I think of it. I think it is something that can be practiced to lead to better communication skills. (But I think the mind of the child or adult has to be ready. Mine was at sixth grade, but perhaps not before. The verbal explanation was crucial for me.)

Anyway, I suspect that the punch-smile display is a metaphor for a number of adult communication patterns, so mastering it is important for adulthood as well.

Perhaps you can find a way to practice "looking for smiles" with your child, and when a basic skill level is hopefully attained, work on pairing smiles with fake aggression of some sufficiently mild type so that he doesn't get overwhelmed by fear. That last part was a difficult hurdle for me as I had a lot of fear of bullying.

I remember the first time I got a punch-smile after learning about it and I smiled back, I knew I couldn't hide my flinching and fear, yet my smile was enough that the guy was friendly. That changed my life.

Don't know if that's very helpful or not, but that's my experience.