Financial crisis been blamed on people with Asperger's! (wtf

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longNstrong
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03 Mar 2010, 1:19 pm

There was a discussion of this with a different treatment of it here: From Black Swan Guy: People With Autism Cannot Think

I said it there and I'll say it here, I think Taleb's use of aspergers is just a very, very clumsy metaphor. I agree that AS folks are more likely to follow their own path and not succumb to groupthink. But I also see AS as a way to describe a self-contained system that can ignore certain inputs--something akin to the literary use of blind, or deaf, or even weak and strong.

I think risk management, as a group, has been forced into a world of strict rules and rigid adherence to simple ideas. This was more a result of policies all around risk management forcing it into a corner than about the actual character of risk managers. Risk Management become disinterested in asking probing questions about activities and instead became about performing elaborate routines to bless malevolence. If using AS a metaphor helps people see that, I can't feel all that bad about this.


On an almost TOTALLY different note, I encourage each and every one of you to read an excerpt in Vanity Fair from Michael Lewis's new book on the financial crisis. The excerpt features a very skillful portrayal of an AS savant seeing the crisis before it unfolded, exactly the opposite or the harshest takeaway from the Taleb piece. Interestingly, I knew the featured hedge fund manager, Dr. Michael Burry MD, was AS long before it was explicitly written out: the profile was very good and very sympathetic and I recognized a lot of my traits in the doctor. Seriously folks, do yourself a favor and read this: Betting on the Blind Side



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03 Mar 2010, 1:33 pm

Ok, I'm going to set aside all argument/discussion about AS for a second and ask a simple question:

What part of looting does the author not understand?

You think this was some kind of tragic accident? This was not an accident at all, everyone knew it was going to happen, except the idiots who were supposed to write laws to prevent it.

I'm a strong believer in "small government", but even Republicans don't believe in small government these days (in fact they don't believe in anything, like everyone they are fighting a war to gain as much as possible for themselves or their organization).. but if there is ANY reason to have a government to intervene, this situation would have been it, about ten years ago.

Bravo.



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03 Mar 2010, 4:59 pm

I love how Taleb has always whined that a major problem with people is they try to lay causation on things - but that he'll break his own rule to slur people with disabilities.


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harry_j_83
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03 Mar 2010, 9:54 pm

Quote:
For people on the Asperger's spectrum this is far less true; regardless of what people are talking about at cocktail parties, they won't believe that we can all grow rich by buying up one another's houses, nor will they take assurances from "authorities" as the final word. Having less fear of looking stupid than the rest of us, they will stand by what they perceive. They are also, at least in my experience, far less likely than the average person to hold a position cynically; because it benefits them rather than because they believe it.


okay... they definitely pulled information out of their a-hole on two counts here

1. "having less fear of looking stupid" : well to make it brief, i'm always paranoid of making an idiot of myself

2. "in my experience, far less likely .... to hold aposition cynically" (JFC did i read that bit correctly?!?!?) again to make it brief, i'm cynical all the time: in fact, this is one of my main problems and people have repeatedly told me my pessimism tends to create a bad atmosphere.

i'd like to know on what SCIENTIFIC grounds this article was based on. YES: SCIENCE: a repeated set of experiments that validates one or a set of hypotheses (rather than pulling the latter out one's backside and distributing it in its rawest form)



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03 Mar 2010, 11:30 pm

Well, from the headline one might assume that the article is a tinfoil hat piece saying "Aspies caused the economic meltdown." In reality, the author seems to be saying "Hey, if we had more people who thought analytically and logically we might not have this problem with our economy."

I find it difficult to experience outrage over this article.



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03 Mar 2010, 11:36 pm

8O Next thing ya know, they'll be blaming us for high divorce rates. Sheesh.LOL


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04 Mar 2010, 2:00 am

Hey folks,

This article is hate mongering...you know Beck got in big trouble, finally, for his hate mongering.
But I dont think most people would see it as hate mongering because we are not a racial group but a "disability" just "lacking theory of mind"
But either way, here is a cut and paste from anouther post I did on a similar subject.
"I believe that the project to prevent autistic births...is more than just selfishness. It is politically motivated because politicians don't like anyone upsetting the status quo. And as far as the world knows, true or untrue, "autism is on the rise". Autistic people in general tend to think outside of the "normal" parameters of life...which sometimes make our political viewpoint a bit radical by NT standards. The old guard is on the decent from their prime and they have to think about the future status quo. "The rise in autism" will in their minds upset that balance. It is more like an politically- based unborn genocide than anything. If you want to check and see if I am right...look into what politicians fund these programs or at least seriously donate to them."

I believe that this article ties into the intent of Autism Speaks. So this is how they do a holicost (sp) now days...huh???
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Aurore
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04 Mar 2010, 2:03 am

jojobean wrote:
Hey folks,

This article is hate mongering...you know Beck got in big trouble, finally, for his hate mongering.
But I dont think most people would see it as hate mongering because we are not a racial group but a "disability" just "lacking theory of mind"
But either way, here is a cut and paste from anouther post I did on a similar subject.
"I believe that the project to prevent autistic births...is more than just selfishness. It is politically motivated because politicians don't like anyone upsetting the status quo. And as far as the world knows, true or untrue, "autism is on the rise". Autistic people in general tend to think outside of the "normal" parameters of life...which sometimes make our political viewpoint a bit radical by NT standards. The old guard is on the decent from their prime and they have to think about the future status quo. "The rise in autism" will in their minds upset that balance. It is more like an politically- based unborn genocide than anything. If you want to check and see if I am right...look into what politicians fund these programs or at least seriously donate to them."

I believe that this article ties into the intent of Autism Speaks. So this is how they do a holicost (sp) now days...huh???
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I wouldn't say this article perse, since the author of the article is trying to defend us, proposing ways in which we could actually have helped prevent the meltdown. It's Taleb, whose opinion the author originally described, that is doing the hatemongering.


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04 Mar 2010, 9:46 pm

Wow, I didn't know Taleb was such a total ass! :x


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04 Mar 2010, 11:50 pm

alex wrote:
Quote:
Did the financial system blow up because it was built and largely operated by people with many of the characteristics of a mild form of autism called Asperger's syndrome?

No. It was because those people were managed by neurotypicals.

Quote:
Actually, and here I am fishing in shallower waters than Taleb, there are elements of a typical Asperger's personality which are extremely useful in guarding against manias and bubbles.

So why couldn't he have made that his main point, instead of burying it at the end of the column?

Also, we really need to clear up the "theory of mind" business. Not being able to read facial expressions is rather differnt from not understanding that there are mental states in there somewhere.



Heliobacter20
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05 Mar 2010, 3:23 am

Sounds like someone just had a personal axe to grind with an aspie.



FePixie
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05 Mar 2010, 4:24 am

Pfft - the WHOLE "financial crisis" is a fairy tale made up by the NTs anyway - so if they have to make that up - of course they've gotta make up whose fault it is too :lol:



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05 Mar 2010, 2:52 pm

FePixie wrote:
Pfft - the WHOLE "financial crisis" is a fairy tale made up by the NTs anyway - so if they have to make that up - of course they've gotta make up whose fault it is too :lol:


some pertinent thoughts on the subject:

"Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify
the hunter." -African proverb

"Half the world is composed of idiots, the other half of people clever enough to take indecent advantage of them. - Walter Kerr"

"The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety."
-Eric Sevareid

"Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim. "



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05 Mar 2010, 3:23 pm

While his opinion column doesn't allow for comments, we can still throw darts at his picture:
Image



auntblabby
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05 Mar 2010, 3:26 pm

MsTriste wrote:
While his opinion column doesn't allow for comments, we can still throw darts at his picture:
Image


wish you had put up ann coulter's pic instead.



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26 Sep 2011, 1:06 pm

This article is a reification fallacy. It is logical only if you consider the words used and ignore the substance.

Theory of Mind Deficit applies to intuition, NOT deliberate reasoning. A person in a job like that no matter how good their intuition is should NOT be relying on it to make final decisions with that much of an effect on society. Personally, I'd trust someone with Asperger's more in a job like that. An NT would be more likely to make the risk assessment based on their personal feelings. Someone with Asperger's would not even consider that an option and would carefully and logically think it through. The Aspie would be more likely to have that job as part of their special interest so their reasoning would probably be extensive and accurate.

I notice in everyday speech people never make distinctions about whether something applies to the long-term or short-term and as a result people always assume it must apply to both. They think if you can't do something on the fly it means you can't do it at all.