The stereotype of being a Savant or having special abilities

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I was good at basic math at a young age, I think I was about 4 years old when I was awake in bed and reasoned that since multiplication consisted of things like "3 times 3", that must mean what it says, 3 + 3 + 3. So I taught myself to multiply. Etc. Always by myself, I couldn't learn in a classroom to save my own life.

Similar with reading. Got perfect score on that section of the SAT. Barely got a C in the class.

I remember when I was also 4 and I woke up morning, ran to Mum and asked Mum, please please please tell me NOW why numbers are infinite?
But the answer was very good: Because always is one more!
And another day: Mum, tell me about fractions! Why do you draw fruits? Can't you just tell me? - but she didn't understand and after I repeat this question more times, she got angry.
People laugh at me, because I don't use calculator (I usually make mistakes pressing buttons), that I see flashing numbers like in Beautiful Mind.

But it's nothing. Have you ever met REAL savant, not only more-than-average-intelligent person? Or person with great social skills, but with low IQ?

I've met some remarkable people. For example John Carmack (in fact in the presence of the famous person I mentioned via PM who will remain anonymous here). His focus is enviable, and many people regard him as the world's best computer programmer. But he's just a person (incidentally I'm almost positive he's an aspie). There is nothing really remarkable about him, other than he shows multiple AS traits and has a very deep knowledge of a few subjects. And has a virtually unbreakable focus when he's working. He programs faster than some people type. Beyond that, he's just a dude. But he's the closest thing to a savant I've met.

The trouble with a low IQ is that gets you in as much trouble as a high one. I've met plenty of people people on the subway who I found interesting, they were probably ret*d in addition to various other problems, but I don't think most people thought of them as more than a ret*d person on the subway.

I believe that my own ability to design software is superhuman, but I'm no one to talk

Well, i could read fluently and extensively when i was 4, i knew reading inside and out before i even entered into kindergaren.
I didnt know that was unusual i thought everybody could. It wasnt untill i was in a video store with my father and we were trying to decide on a film so i turned over all the cases and started reading the summaries and critiques. He was so surprised i could read everything so pristinely.

Then in kindergarten i was the only child in my school in that age group who could draw people and animals with form.
Everyone else drew in sticks.
Id always drawn like that though, i didnt know that was unusual either untill i was informed.

The thing is i have nothing to show for these abilities, and they probably would have been better maintained if i had the right guidance in my academic career. I probably could have become an amazing artist but my artistic progress hit a plateau and stayed there.
However my literary skills are still up to par and ive never lost grasp of them.
I may not have anything to show for that yet but its never too late. Im still young enough to find a way to utilize my strengths in the workforce and become self sufficient and compitent.

I guess i have "special gifts" too, its just not something i like to be the first one to bring up.
I fear coming across as boastful, but i guess there really is quite a few of us with "bragging rights" (well on here anyways, i doubt there are many here who would take offence to the sharing of special skills in this group)

Stands to reason. Around here you don't have to be ashamed of your disability, so why be ashamed of having talents?

I was an early reader. Three or four, probably. I don't remember ever not knowing how to read.

Same here! I just remember ALWAYS knowing how to read. The struggle of learning is non-existent in my memory it's like i just...picked it up at first wind. Kind of like, if that same light went off but for a different medium like playing a piano id have sat down and played Tchaikovsky by heart.
Reading is like breathing to me. The most natural thing in the world.
If i was better at speaking perhaps id be recording audiobooks, but i stammer too much and loose control of the volume of my voice. My mouth doesent get out what my mind sees. Im not exactly carismatic in read-aloud sessions.
I love it when people do the voices, i wish i could do that and focus on the page

I have an abnormally low motor IQ and a very high verbal IQ. This calculates to a bit above average. Nothing too exciting compared to some of the other people I've met with AS.

Yeah, I have some strengths that could be considered "special", although not spectacularly so. They're really hard to explain though. I have an ability to break everything down mechanically, seeing how things 'work', without thinking about them. It happens automatically, and is very visual. It's not visual to the point where i could be a great artist, for example....if I were to be imagine the construction of something(a house), I would be able to visualive each individual piece of wood, heads of nails, etc....and be able to actually see the grain of the wood, but not with quite enough detail to be able to draw it accurately. That's just one aspect of it, and not the best example, but it is a very difficult thing for me to describe, especially the way it applies to all the other aspects of life.

That's actually a really good way to describe it.

I never though about this, about Aspies being expected to posess savant like skills. I guess that's another drawback of AS being under the Autism umbrella.

I have always been under the impression that people with Asperger's can not be savants. They may have specialised talents and skill sets, but it is due to focus, repition, obsession, etc, not because of uncanny savant ability. I have only heard of people with Apserger's having savant abilities when they have also suffered a brain trauma (like Daniel Tammet, who seems to mainly have synesthaesia and a photographic memory anyway, nothing savant about either of those).

I can see how Aspies might mistake their focus driven skills for savant ability because of the Autism generalisation, but it is not the same.

My brother is an autistic savant (and also suspected ADHD), he can barely care for himself yet the house I am living in right now was purchased with the money he has made working. He was hired by a company FOR his savant abilites, despite the fact he can't communicate efficiently (he talks alot, but pretty much just says what he wants not relevant stuff or conversations stuff) or make deadlines, follow directions or stick to his schedual. He is employed and paid very well simply because the work he does he seems to be designed for. He has never ever learned how to do any of it, he can just do it. I don't know how (he designs music effects pedals). I don't understand how someone can understand something technical like that when they have never properly been shown how. Watching him with electronics is like watching an artist with a paintbrush.

And that is what I think a true savant is, not someone who has a special interest and obsession and who gets good at it because of that. That's the same as me doing that (I'm NT) in my mind, and I'm not a savant!

I'm not meaning to 'take away' from any Aspies who feel they have savant like abilities, I just don't think it's the right term for Aspies with special skills.

It takes the boy 9 hours to recite Pi. If that is not a savant skill, then I don't know what else is.
His brain can work out large math sums faster than a calculator.

Daniel Tammet would be a bit surprised to hear you say that. (Aspie savant. Google him if you're interested.)

Anyways, regular autistics aren't expected to be savants. Only a minority actually are. Most aren't. And most docs are pretty aware that you don't have to have splinter skills to be autistic.

Savant abilities are a spectrum. There's not some obvious cutoff point where the regular abilities stop and the savant skills start. It's more of a gradual transition, from simply being talented to being extremely talented and/or precocious to being pretty much wired exactly the right way to do some specific thing very, very well. Many Aspies have what some people would call minor savant skills and others would call splinter skills; in any event, they're skills we have that we acquired with very little practice, and which are quite a bit better than the average.

This would be different from the skills you'd get if you were fascinated with something and studied it obsessively, which is also something your basic Aspie does. There's no background skill level required for that, despite the expert-level knowledge that often results.

So let's say your example Aspie can recite Hamlet by heart. He's a savant if he read it a few times and memorized it because he liked the sound of it, without trying very hard. He's got a special interest if he's fascinated with Shakespeare and has spent the last three months studying the play. See the difference?

In regards to Daniel Tammet, perhaps you should read my entire post before you go asking me to do any sort of google search. Haha! And to whoever said he was a savant because he took 9 hours quoting Pi from memory? So what? That's how long it takes to quote Pi, I suppose if he spoke faster it would have taken less time. As for the memory side of things, he has a photographic memory AND synesthaesia, I don't think you understand how crucial these facts are when it comes to him reciting Pi. He is not rattling off numbers the way I have seen many LFA rattle of primes because it makes them feel good, he is using natural memory techniques, it is not natural for him to recite Pi, it takes effort, he studied and practiced it before he attempted to do it officially. Savants just do it because that is what it is in them to do, or so it seems. Pi is Daniel Tammets special interest and because of his Asperger's related focus he has been able to achieve what he has with Pi. It is nowhere close to being beyond an NTs capabilities.

I don't believe savantism is a spectrum at all and I've never seen, read or heard anything besides your post that insinuates that it is.

Aspies aquire skills with very little effort because thier minds have a more extreme focus than most people, if anything that focus is the savant ability, not the skill aquired by being able to have that focus.

But you see NTs can also do this if they have a focused, productive and motivated personality. They are not savants, they just share the same focus as those with Aspergers and therefore get the same results when it comes to learning and perfecting a skill (with little OR alot of effort).



I don't see the difference between someone with Asperger's being able to do this and an NT being able to do this. An NT person may have a passion for Shakespeare along with a fantastic memory, that combination could produce the same results (which you consider to be savant like) without Autism or any condition. It is their natural ability. But not all NTs are blessed with this ability, and the majority of Aspies are. See the difference?

But an NT can't do what my brother does unless they are a prodigy, and prodgies are as rare as savants. I just see the term savant as being reserved for abilites that can't be achieved in the same fashion and to the same degree as is possible for someone without Autism.

This is the type of savant that Daniel Tammet is: http://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/ ... red_savant

He is mentioned in the article:

"One final example of acquired savant abilities is Daniel Tammet, whose skills, and their onset and development, are described by him in his very popular book Born on a Blue Day. After several childhood seizures, which were ultimately diagnosed as temporal lobe epilepsy, Daniel began to experience a very powerful and unique synesthesia in which every number has its own color, shape and texture. Coupled with the synesthesia was lightning calculating and calendar calculating ability, along with massive memory for numbers. Daniel was able to memorize Pi to 22,514 decimal places, for example. He also has the ability to learn languages in a very brief time. He mastered Icelandic, for example, in seven days as chronicled in Focus Production’s 2005 documentary, Brainman. "

You didn't say anything about Daniel being able to calculate numbers really fast. I remember in his book his brother gave him some very long numbers to calculate and he did, then his brother did the calculation on the calculator and Daniel was correct.
Although you have encouraged me to read his latest book. Perhaps there's more evidence in there about him being a savant, or at least very very very smart.

Please clink the link I posted above and read the article. Daniel Tammet may have some savant ability, but it is in NO WAY related to Autism. I provided a paragraph from the article about him in my previous post.