Are most Aspies unable to work or live independently?

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This response goes to the very heart of why I started this thread.

Assume at your peril

There is no shortage of assumptions and opinions and people in general are often very happy to share their opinion.

It is very interesting to hear about the personal experience of WP members regarding work and how they live and these add a qualitative component to this discussion.

I think that scientifically/statistically presented facts and conclusions are more helpful in understanding how those with AS are coping with life and collecting the quantitative components of this discussion.

Yes, that is why I backed up my assumption with data and a rational analysis of that data. If I said, "My assumption is based purely on personal anecdotal evidence" then I could see the confusion.

But the numbers of recorded diagnoses do indeed show that the number of diagnosed autistic people, per a fraction of the population is increasing over the years. Furthermore, autism has been shown to be caused by genetics by looking at fraternal/identical twin studies. The autism rate may have gone up in the 14 years between 1986 and 2000 due to genetics if it is caused by a dominant gene, but not enough to account for a 700 fold increase. Thus the only viable conclusion that I can see is that many people my age would indeed qualify for a diagnosis, yet go undiagnosed.

I will admit that I did speculate on the reasons why most people my age are undiagnosed, but I don't think that speculation is that far off. At least it seems reasonable to me.

I have been self supporting in the past. Having children changed my ability to hold down a job for the worse. I find that they consume so much of my mental and emotional energy, as well as my tolerance for anything irritating. There is little/none left for a job.

I currently work about 8 hours a week. I live with my children in a subsidized housing unit and receive food stamps.

The original question was about aspies and NOT autism. AS was added to DSM in 1994, so the figures from Freeman (1997), Rutter (1996) and Howlin (1996) are likely completely irrelevant in this context.

Based on what I read on the provided link, I doubt that any of those studies (the old or new ones) are relevant. I wonder how many of them actually included individuals with AS. Probably none, because there simply wasn't enough time between the inclusion of AS into DSM and the publishing of those studies to collect a reasonable amount of data.

Duly noted.

Since I am looking for independent data/studies, my preference (I speak for no one else) would actually be for just the weblink.

That was the purpose of the thread.

There are plenty of other threads on WP with analysis by members, some of it very good quality.

I am making absolutely no judgement of your rational analysis, (which I didn't and won't read) which may possibly be exceptional.

I am just seeking Auditory Digital information input; me and a published document.

Lol, I like that edit job.

Its like one of those 5 second sound bites you see on the news which takes things completely out of context. Well done there

Anyways, you are saying that you are looking for a link to a study done on the outcomes of adults with Asperger's syndrome. And the entire point of my post is to show that there are NO VIABLE STUDIES done to show the outcome of all people with the condition. You may get some studies, but those would be highly biased and not indicative of the entire population.

So, while I am sorry I have no good links for you, thats simply because no good links exist since no real objective studies have been done.

Any statistics you might gather on this would be quite meaningless. I have never been diagnosed, and yet I can state with a great degree of confidence that I have Aspergers Syndrome. Officially, I do not. My uncle by marriage was an electrical engineer who committed suicide in his seventies. I can unequivocally state that he had Aspergers. I doubt if he had ever even heard of the condition. His best friend, an electrical contractor, and long time friend of the family, is most assuredly Aspergers. I have a female cousin who has peculiar eating habits, to the point of needing a separate plate for each item. She is also very quiet. Her, I'm not sure about, but her son I am. This lad had earned the title "inspector gadget" by age three. I observed him at the age of three, squatting on the counter operating the kitchen faucet, totally rapt. Some years later I attended her brothers funeral. The child was certainly "in his own little world". When I inquired to my cousin about his odd behaviour, I received a curt "we haven't had him diagnosed". The subject was dropped. My fathers entire side of the family might be termed eccentric.

I worked with a fellow on the north slope, who was nicknamed "Kermit" due to his odd voice. My first introduction to the man was at dinner with two supervisors who were discussing how peculiar he was. One of them stated "He's autistic is what he is". I concealed my smile that I had thus far not revealed myself as such. Later I met this individual, and concurring with the unofficial DX discussed the issue with him, to include my own self discovery. He was incredulous, and dismissed it as pop psychology.

Some years ago, prior to having even heard of Aspergers Syndrome, I was working out of town. I met a quite odd fellow in a bar. He would say things like "As I said two minutes and thirty seven seconds ago...". After a while of talking in which I had divulged any number of intimate details about myself as though we'd been friends for years, he began to ask any number of odd leading questions. One was "How many cats do you have?". This was out of nowhere. I asked and looked if I had cat hair on me. He dismissed it with a knowing grin. I now, in retrospect, and with the knowledge of what Aspergers is, realize I had been clocked as a fellow Aspie.

To the best of my knowledge, I have never met a diagnosed Aspie; But we are out there, and in far greater numbers than what the statistics would have you believe. The ones I've met are busy muddling through life, and for the most part getting by on their own.

Frankly sir, I have a problem living dependently

I can't wait till I have enough to safely detach without fear of eternal debt. Everyone is driving me crazy right now.

I am undiagnosed, but *clearly* deeply on the spectrum. 2 of my three children are diagnosed, and their mom is definitely *NOT* an Aspie. Neither does she have any in her family.

I've got my own company, with several employees in fact too. I too have problems with "practical things" like sending in papers and such, but I have a beautiful wife which helps me at home and a great business partner which do all the "practical things".

I focus mostly on strategy, system programming and the "geeky stuff".

I guess there is definitely hope, as long as one recognizes ones great qualities and nurtures them insanely. In my business, my partner [NT] is the one who thinks he's lucky. Though I am also highly grateful for having him too. I guess becoming obsessed with computer programming at age 8, and doing it about 10-16 hours every day ever since [for 27 years] has its advantages ... ;)

In addition I'm obsessed with psychology, business-strategy, relationships [from a conceptual point of view], history of previous IT-companies, and a lot of other things that really helps in regards to my business ...

I guess the trick is to become so obsessed with [and hence good at] something that others seeks you out, instead of the other way around, might be the trick ...

... and in those regards my AS traits have been a *HUGE* advantage to me ...

When that's said, I kind of think the whole question is skewed. Most of the people winning Nobel Prizes in the 20th Century were clearly Aspies. Most of the guys becoming IT billionaires in the 20th century was also clearly Aspies.

But yes, after reading these forums for the last couple of days, I do realize that there are people who struggle with their AS. Though how much of their sorrows are within the Aspie parts and how much are other problems, I am not entirely sure about ...

I guess I'll add too, since there's no study..

I am 24, (diagnosed at 11) looking for a job with the help of a service, and I live with my BF. My mom supported me (when I lived with her and when I lived in a college dorm) until I moved in with him, and now he supports me while I try to get a job. (I plan to pay him back.) I think I could live independently and earn my own money, (depending on what kind of job I was able to get) but I would need help getting a house and managing money and taxes and legally housey papers and stuff. (As you might be able to tell from my super pro grownup financial language, lol.)

I would rather not live alone though. (That's something to remember when you look this kinda stuff up, I think.. CAN live alone and WANT TO live alone are different. Maybe a lot of aspies just don't like to live alone. I'd rather live with my mom than by myself.)

NOBS, I loved your whole post.

Undiagnosed.

I have tenure and (at the moment) job hours of 4-8 PM MW.

That works with my sleep disturbances. To be honest, I couldn't handle a regular job. No way.

I'm a professor in mathematics, which means that the job was largely created by Aspies for Aspies. I have a research position.

The PhD was the basic meal ticket:; then it's reputation. In grad school they made allowances for my oddities (and for others further out on the spectrum.)

Academia FTW-- if you are highly functioning with EXTREME talent/savantism-- but you must love being proven wrong so that you can grow. Without ego. It seems to me that most talented people fail on that point (aspie or not). No ego, just growth.

Suppose that you have a "new concept". Most likely the concept is not yours, even though you think it is. Advice: treat it like it is your enemies idea. Moreover: be ready to abandon it. No matter how much you like it and feel it is right. (It probably is on some level-- trust that feeling, but don't think the idea is the next Theory of Relativity!) A common problem is an inflated sense of self. Human knowledge is social. Without others we are monkeys. Even Aspies. So you gotta communicate and learn from others. Monkey see monkey do.

Last edited by 5772156 on 13 Mar 2010, 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Here is one more study, also by Patricia Howlin, referenced in the Adult Psychiatric Morbidity Survey 2007 that I listed earlier:

An 8 year follow-up of a specialist supported employment service for high-ability adults with autism or Asperger syndrome
Patricia Howlin, Jennifer Alcock, Catherine Burkin
Few supported employment programmes have been specifically designed for people with autism, especially those who are more able. This study examines the outcome of a supported employment service (NAS Prospects) for adults with autism or Asperger syndrome (IQ 60+) over an 8 year period. Approximately 68 percent of clients found employment. Of the 192 jobs, the majority were permanent contracts and most involved administrative, technical or computing work. Assessment of current clients indicates that IQ, language skills and educational attainments are high. However, work has also been found for those of lower abilities. Individuals supported by Prospects show a rise in salaries, contribute more tax and claim fewer benefits. Satisfaction with the scheme is high among clients, employers and support workers. Although the programme continues to incur a financial deficit, this has decreased. Moreover, there are many non-financial benefits, which are difficult to quantify. The importance of specialist employment support of this kind is discussed.
Autism, Vol. 9, No. 5, 533-549 (2005)
DOI: 10.1177/1362361305057871
http://aut.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/9/5/533

I have worked a few jobs and I have an interview today at noon so I'm hoping to get a job finally.

I have worked part time and full time. Sometimes over time. I used to not be able to handle long hours but I got over it. I wanted to be independent so I worked eight hours five days a week.

I have two months remaining before my failed attempt at living independently on the weekdays (attending uni) ends and I can come back home for good. I did manage to actually land the best job I have ever had in my life (sorting and identifying aquatic organisms under a microscope, $9/hr., 10 hrs./wk.), but I will have to give that up when I come back.

I really thought I could make it. Now I am back to square one with nothing to show for it but a scar on my wrist, 15 extra pounds from stress eating, a bunch of therapy and medication payment receipts, and $12,500 in student loans. Every time I try to better myself in the world of employment, it ends in disaster, no matter how positive an attitude I try to keep and no matter how hard I try to do things right. Every time I have a new opportunity, I go in well-prepared and ready to work hard to make things happen, and I will inevitably say, "THIS time, it will be different and things will work out." This last time, I felt it particularly strongly. And things blew up in my face again.

I hope I can get a job when I come back. Or maybe I don't, now. My forays into the working world keep tending to cost us more than the money I actually make (for many various and bizarre reasons). This time, I REALLY messed up because I thought going to college would make a difference. I was going to get my bachelor's degree and then have my first "real" job. We are actually better off financially when I *don't* work. The stuff I do around the house that saves us money (clipping coupons, doing things by hand instead of running appliances, etc.) is, quite honestly, more beneficial.

Anyway, I am sick of trying to be part of the world of work, having bad stuff happen, and then having my dear sweet husband end up footing the bill. We are not poor, but we are most definitely not rich, either. We get by because we're frugal and because we never had any two-legged, furless kids. Why that man doesn't kick me to the curb and find himself a nice NT girl, I have no idea. We are still madly in love with each other after 21 years of marriage, but he could do a LOT better. I know that I am very fortunate to have him; it's almost certain that I wouldn't even have lived to see my 25th birthday if we hadn't met.

At least since I got my DX in 2007, I am better able to understand why all this crazy stuff keeps happening. I am very proactive when it comes to learning from my mistakes and improving my "soft skills" set. However, each new experience brings with it a new set of problems that I haven't encountered before, and the cycle begins again. I am nearly 45 years old, and I still feel like I'm Charlie Brown trying to kick the football and thinking that *this* will finally be the time Lucy won't pull it away. Hubby is pushing 50. I'm not sure how many more times we want to keep messing around with this.

I don't think I will ever stop longing to be a contributing member of my houosehold and of society, though...

double post deleted

Last edited by riverspark on 12 Mar 2010, 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.