Need input on husband's "symptoms" - ADD or AS or

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He spent years telling me he was an axxhole, but wouldn't do anything about it.

He left because he wanted to date one of his obsessions, while saying, "It's not that I don't desire you."

He still calls me, even though he's dating her.

I'm supposed to get him into counseling how?

Seriously, I've been in counseling for this, and the therapist and our mutual friends say that his awful behavior is about him not really taking the AS diagnosis on board. Particularly because what I do for a living required years in therapy, I'm pretty careful about how I behave in a relationship.

I don't know what I could have done differently, other than trying to scold him daily about inappropriate behavior---I wouldn't do it then, and I'm not about to start now.

There really are men with AS who have no intention of ever behaving better. In my guy's case he is good looking enough that he can always get someone else, and dating is like a sport for him. I have the very small hope that he doesn't really know that he hurts people that much. He always says, "Relationships just don't last."

Although I would like to challenge you to something. I tried to be very accepting and not to complain--and now, all he has said is, "You were manipulative because you put up with me." I kind of thought that putting up with it was what NTs did when in a relationship with someone who is AS with comorbid disorders like OCD and self mutilation.

What else could I have done?

Some aspies aren't worth dating, or being married to.

If he were an NT, I'd just call it narcissistic personality disorder, and after six months of PTSD over the bad behaviour, I'd call myself lucky.

I still think, though, that if you were really able to make an NT understand what they were doing, half the time they wouldn't change it anyway.

My particular Aspie has a wrong set of beliefs about relationships: he thinks he won't have AS in his new relationship (again, having problems with the diagnosis). He has no history of cheating, going back 20 years.

When he figures out that he still has AS in this relationship, I think he won't ever act like that again. (Will that help me? It depends how fast he figures it out.)

The difference between AS and neurotypical? When the light goes on for most people with AS, they stop acting badly. People who are neurotypical frequently just don't care.

I'm attacking the behaviour, not the people. I wish there were some way to communicate reality to some people with AS.

Poppy, it seems like you're still hanging around hoping he'll start to see his relationship with you the way you see it and come back to you hoping to make up. Even if he did what you wanted quickly, would it really help you? After all the hurt you've had with him, do you really want to start over with him again?

"When he figures out that he still has AS in this relationship, I think he won't ever act like that again."
Keep in mind, he'll still be the same person, with the same personality, and he'll STILL HAVE AS. Part of having a neurological disability is that some behaviors that are easy for you are ridiculously difficult for a person with AS, EVEN IF they sincerely believe they need to try. This is why it's a DISABILITY and not just selfishness or lack of attention. There will always be cues he won't pick up, things you feel that won't make sense to him, mental blocks he'll have about things you want him to get, etc. I'd be the first to say self-awareness makes a huge difference for anyone, AS or not, but realizing his AS traits have hurt you is not going to magically flip a switch and turn him into a different person overnight. When he figures out that he still has AS, he will STILL act that way sometimes. You are asking him not only to undo years of life experience and habit (hard enough for anyone), but also his own neurological wiring. This is NOT going to happen overnight, and may not ever happen to your satisfaction, I'm afraid.

"The difference between AS and neurotypical? When the light goes on for most people with AS, they stop acting badly. People who are neurotypical frequently just don't care."
AS often involves lack of awareness, yes, but there's more to it than that. You say that people with AS, unlike NTs, care. If someone with AS CARES about getting positive responses, they would learn to do it--but ONLY if they have a natural ability to behave in a way that would attract such responses. I think you'll find many people here are quite self-aware, and this alone has not cured their AS. They do the best they can, but are still able to hurt themselves or others. I think you will see this for yourself as you continue reading and commenting here.

It's reasonable to want things from a relationship that a person with AS can't easily provide. It's reasonable to love a person with AS anyway. IMO, it's NOT perfectly reasonable to expect someone with AS to continually provide you with all these things, just because you love them. A lot depends on the severity of the AS, but there are things that, realistically, you may never get from a relationship with "your" aspie, however self-aware he may be. If that bothers you, you should probably find someone else.

I realize these comments are quite blunt, but I mean no offense. You're obviously in pain and if anything, I'd rather you and "your" aspie not get hurt any more. I fear that if you're waiting to start up another relationship with this man, hoping it will be entirely different, either or both of you will be hurt. But of course, it's not my business, and what you do in the end is up to you. Best wishes.

I really appreciate the replies.

Did I say I expected him to change?

This is good--it helps me to clarify. It's o.k. if he hurts me unintentionally. What I don't want him to do is continue to blame me for his AS behavior.

(Yes, it's very codependent and weird. He called me tonight, before going out with her, looking for a fight, which I wouldn't give him.)

I have no idea what will happen with us. I would never have left him, even knowing he had AS, and all that that entails.

To neuron:

Yes, he really does have AS, and has no idea the effect it has on his close romantic relationships.

I appreciate being validated that he's crazy to think he won't have AS with someone else. That does help.

Some people just have massive denial.

@poppyx: "Did I say I expected him to change?"
You said, "When he figures out that he still has AS in this relationship, I think he won't ever act like that again." This, combined with earlier comments in this and other threads, made me think you wanted him to change. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

I think Neuron and I were suggesting you consider leaving him, not because he has AS, but because the relationship you described is "codependent and weird," as you put it. A number of people here have happy AS-NT relationships, but this doesn't seem like one. He's picking fights with you, you're convinced he's blaming you for your differences...but of course you've gone through therapy and can probably see all the problems with the relationship for yourself, so if you would never have left him, there must be something positive about the relationship that we're not seeing.

"I appreciate being validated that he's crazy to think he won't have AS with someone else."
This is true. But you should also realize, one would be crazy to think he won't have AS with you, too.

I just noticed you said this: "I tried to be very accepting and not to complain--and now, all he has said is, "You were manipulative because you put up with me." I kind of thought that putting up with it was what NTs did when in a relationship with someone who is AS with comorbid disorders like OCD and self mutilation. What else could I have done?"
What do you mean by "putting up with it?" If you mean suffering in silence, not saying anything and feeling like a martyr, that certainly won't work. You won't be happy, and your partner won't even know there's a problem until your anger seeps out in indirect ways, at which point he'll have no idea what you're even mad about, and will assume the problem is with you. And to be honest, there really wouldn't be a direct line for even an NT to draw between the behavior and your anger in such a case. There is a middle ground between this and complaining, which you seem to want to avoid. Complaining tends to take the form of "you never...." "you always..." "why do you make me feel blah blah blah..." which makes the AS partner feel picked on but doesn't give them the information they need. The middle ground is to say as specifically and concretely as possible what you need from your partner with AS. Otherwise, the partner with AS just won't know what to do. Yes, if everything's bothering you you may have to pick your battles and suck it up sometimes, but that's very different from being in a continual state of "putting up with it" because that's what NTs do. If I were in your husband's position, I might see angry silence like this as a way of putting yourself in a superior position... maybe that's what he means by "manipulative?"

Dealing with a difficult partner with AS is like walking a tight rope, isn't it? Recognizing the part each of you play without blaming either yourself or your partner only...dealing with the temptation to treat your perspective as the only truth and ignore your partner's perspective, which must be all the stronger since you have the majority, NT view...acknowledging that your partner's behavior is infuriating without demonizing either him or his AS...that's tough, and I hope discussing it with us will help you find a good balance.

Thanks for the responses!!

To be clear?

I think he's having a midlife crisis that involves avoiding the AS diagnosis. His current "other" is a fairly shallow, by his words, "functional alcoholic" that treats him like dirt. She even makes fun of him for not wanting to be around her large, loud family by saying, "You're so autistic about that." (She doesn't know about the AS, although she has seen his OCD and rocking. Insensitive much?)

What I think is happening is that he's trying to escape the AS by dating this other person at least for awhile.

And, "Yes. I suffered in silence." I had no idea what was wrong. He told me, when he was breaking up with me, that he finally figured out he has AS. That supposed to make me go away for good.

For now, when he talks to me, I try not to be judgmental. It's so much easier to be supportive when you know what is wrong. I'm trying to say things to him like, "It's not that you're wrong and I'm right, just that something needs to be different."

O.k. so help me out here?

He does a lot of telling me that I'm inappropriate for "normal" things like staying in the relationship when he has a meltdown. His meltdowns happen three times a year like clockwork, and they always involve him saying he's going to break up. After they happen, I still take his calls, and I don't reject him emotionally. Because I never insisted that he stay away after a meltdown, I'm manipulative? It's like I was supposed to take the words, "We're broken up" as a directive to stay away?

Happy Music, thanks for your kind response - I really appreciate your insights, based on your own experience. Could you tell me more about stimming (or anyone else, too?) Could playing online chess be stimming for my husband? Or eating sugary things? I often have the feeling that it's self-medicating...like he needs the bio-chemical shift he gets from doing these things. But of course, can't be sure. I've only noticed one other sort of behavior that could be stimming, but it doesn't happen often when I'm around. He touches his face and then rubs his thumb and index fingers together, over and over...maybe for a couple of minutes. It seems to happen when he's really focussed on something else, like playing chess or reading an article.

It's weird, I've been spending a lot of time on this forum, and see a lot of things that make me think AS is a real possibility. But then, he does something that seems very un-aspie, and I question it all. Like we went out for dinner the other night to celebrate our anniversary. He held my hand over the table and told me how much he loved me and was happy he married me. Then he told me that for my anniversary present, he was going to stop playing online chess for at least 3 months, maybe up to a year, he hadn't decided. I was totally blown away and very moved. We had a very real, open conversation where he expressed he frustration that he spends so much time that way. He wonders what he could have achieved in his life, if he hadn't spent so many hours and years playing. He kept eye-contact and I felt like I was getting the sort of connection I've been craving. Yet, I know many other times, it seems almost painful for him to maintain eye contact, when it's an emotionally charged situation (normal day to day conversation, where he glances at me and away seems fine).

Anyway, I'm grateful to have found this place to explore some of these things. I don't feel like I have others I can talk to about it, yet.

Thank you!

If you can handle the inconsistency--very there one day, and not the next-- you're fine.

But, you may be in for a rough ride. Your husband is telling you that he's going to stop doing the thing that is his coping mechanism--online chess.

Without the coping mechanism, he may have more trouble at work, more trouble dealing with you and the relationship, and be less happy.

Careful what you wish for.

Thanks for your input, poppy. I'm sorry you've had such a hard time with your ex. It seems to me that there are a lot of REALLY nice aspies on this forum, so I'm guessing that some of his very unkind behavior is unrelated and not necessarily a direct result of being an aspie....i.e. he may not feel comfortable walking with you in public, but how he makes that known doesn't need to be mean.

I'd like to remain open to the possibility that my guy may find another coping mechanism, other than huge amounts of chess, that allows him to live his life in a way he feels more comfortable with. Believe me, he would not have offered to quit chess for any length of time, unless HE wanted to do it. He is stubborn as a rock. I'm not pushing it at all, and am just waiting to see what happens. I've told him that I don't want him to give up chess if it's important to his well-being. However, for him, playing "a little" chess is sort of a like an alcoholic having "just one" drink.

At this point....which is one where I'm very new to the idea that my hubby may have a lot of aspie traits...I guess I'm looking for ways to understand, to be compassionate, to make this work better. I'm looking for the positives, the success stories. All in all, my guy is a good man, who loves me. I'm just trying to understand him better, so that I don't get hurt so easily. It's already helping to start to re-frame some of his behavior as AS traits. I think that AS or NT, we all have our issues. I have a chronic illness, anxiety, OCD tendencies. I expect him to try to understand and support me in my stuff, and I want to try to do the same for him. Just my current thinking....

Dear Rooish,

I think that you are going to be o.k. because he is committed. That may be the most important thing.

I would suggest you read "22 Things a Woman Who Loves a Man with Asperger Syndrome Should Know."

It's like the script they all work from . (This isn't the first aspie I've dated.)

It's really important to know what you're getting into so that you won't have expectations that will then be dashed--which leads to resentment and can really damage your relationship.

Also, I would avoid a lot of the other books out there--many of them seem to have a vested interest in fostering divorce.

Poppy, I actually ordered "22 Things" last week, based on your recommendation. Looking forward to getting it...

I wonder if his saying he's doing bad at the job comes out of the social inadequacies felt. Professional world is a world of politics. You might be someone VASTLY more capable than anyone else at the job, and unable to prove yourself to those with the "politicial" power in the workplace.