Will Aspergers come into play for me wanting to own a gun?

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LucasCrouch
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05 Jun 2010, 4:12 pm

I'm not quite sure if the firearms can count as assets or not but when I was on SSI they wer not really monitoring my expenses. They asked me if I was paying at least a certain amount to my parents every month cuz I had to say I was helping them with expenses for the household to keep getting my check. I spent a lot of that money on eBay & stuff thou cuz my dad wanted some stuff online so I got it for him. I also wrote out some checks to some friends & stuff to pay em back for a couple things they sold me. I don't think SSI looked or cared where my money was going. I had to have less than two thousand in my bank in order to get my check thou. I think SSI mite have something in place where you can save it up if you have a college plan; I'm not sure if they would monitor your transactions with it thou. As for the cost of a gun goes; you mite could find a good deal at a pawn-shop or something. You can also check out GunBroker site online(it's like eBay for firearms) but they only ship to FFL dealers& you can pick it up from them if you pass the paperwork & all. I hope I was of some help[/quote]

I really hope so...im fearful of being barred, I did visit a gun store a few months back one day hoping to buy a walther PPK that I had my eyes on (And the PPK is my favorite type of pistol), I had the 350$ and the money to pay for the background check, When they asked me some questions on the form (The owner wanted to fill the form out, and his son was on the other side of the counter repairing a antique scorpion smg and kepted a loaded pistol on the desk (They told me they do this because the country I live in has problems with drug offenders and registered sex offenders), And when they asked me a question of "have you been legally declared "mentally ill" or "Incompetent" by law, I just choked and after five mintues the owner asked me a question again...and I just told them to cancel the order and left, By then I was fearful i was going to have the cops called on me.



Callista
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05 Jun 2010, 5:23 pm

Are we talking about the USA here? Because if so, the exact wording is:

Quote:
Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?


Some of you may, for example, have had your parents apply for custody of you after age 18, part of which process is to declare you legally incompetent to manage your own affairs.

"Committed to a mental institution" is a more inexact phrase that could mean anything from spending the night in the mental ward to being declared incompetent and committed involuntarily by a judge.

The form that you fill out when you buy a firearm:
http://www.thundertek.net/documents/4473.pdf


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Danielismyname
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05 Jun 2010, 6:32 pm

Glad they don't ask that mental hostel thingy here in OZ (which is in line with the most restrictive states in the US).



Sparrowrose
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05 Jun 2010, 7:49 pm

Callista wrote:
"Committed to a mental institution" is a more inexact phrase that could mean anything from spending the night in the mental ward to being declared incompetent and committed involuntarily by a judge.


"Committed to a mental institution" means someone else put you there. If you signed yourself in to a mental institution you were not committed to a mental institution and you can still legally buy a firearm in the United States. It's not an inexact phrase; it has a specific meaning.

Thundertek.net is a very outdated source. You can see the most current 4473 form on the ATF site:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf

In the definitions section on the form, "committed to a mental institution" is defined -- by the ATF -- as:

Quote:
A formal committment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment to a mental institution involuntarily. The term includes commitment for mental defectiveness or mental illness. It also includes commitments for other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or a voluntary admission to a mental institution.


That looks pretty exact to me.


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Danielismyname
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05 Jun 2010, 8:21 pm

Ah ha, so I would be fine in the US too. So that's a plus, if I ever live there.

It's the same here. Involuntarily, usually court ordered. I called them up via the phone and asked.



Kiley
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05 Jun 2010, 8:22 pm

I don't think that AS has any bearing on gun ownership. However whatever it is that they are recommending the antipsychotics for might be something that should give you pause. By "give pause" I don't mean disqualify you but if you have symptoms that sometimes lead toward delusional behavior it might be better not to have a gun. If there is a chance that you might think you need to protect yourself when you truly didn't, that could get dangerous. If that's not an issue, then I can't imagine what difference it would make.

Good Luck!



Kiley
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05 Jun 2010, 8:25 pm

Sparrowrose wrote:
Callista wrote:
"Committed to a mental institution" is a more inexact phrase that could mean anything from spending the night in the mental ward to being declared incompetent and committed involuntarily by a judge.


"Committed to a mental institution" means someone else put you there. If you signed yourself in to a mental institution you were not committed to a mental institution and you can still legally buy a firearm in the United States. It's not an inexact phrase; it has a specific meaning.

Thundertek.net is a very outdated source. You can see the most current 4473 form on the ATF site:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf

In the definitions section on the form, "committed to a mental institution" is defined -- by the ATF -- as:

Quote:
A formal committment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment to a mental institution involuntarily. The term includes commitment for mental defectiveness or mental illness. It also includes commitments for other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or a voluntary admission to a mental institution.


That looks pretty exact to me.


That's good to know. It sounds like it doesn't mean checking in for regular treatment but a more serious and involuntary commitment where the person themselves wasn't judged competent to choose.



Sparrowrose
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05 Jun 2010, 8:30 pm

Kiley wrote:
Sparrowrose wrote:
Callista wrote:
"Committed to a mental institution" is a more inexact phrase that could mean anything from spending the night in the mental ward to being declared incompetent and committed involuntarily by a judge.


"Committed to a mental institution" means someone else put you there. If you signed yourself in to a mental institution you were not committed to a mental institution and you can still legally buy a firearm in the United States. It's not an inexact phrase; it has a specific meaning.

Thundertek.net is a very outdated source. You can see the most current 4473 form on the ATF site:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf

In the definitions section on the form, "committed to a mental institution" is defined -- by the ATF -- as:

Quote:
A formal committment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment to a mental institution involuntarily. The term includes commitment for mental defectiveness or mental illness. It also includes commitments for other reasons, such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or a voluntary admission to a mental institution.


That looks pretty exact to me.


That's good to know. It sounds like it doesn't mean checking in for regular treatment but a more serious and involuntary commitment where the person themselves wasn't judged competent to choose.


Exactly. And the whole reason the ATF was so very specific about it was because they didn't want anyone to feel pressured to avoid needed treatment. If it weren't so clearly defined, lots of people would never go to drug rehab or visit a psychiatrist for fear of having their second amendment rights removed. But as it is defined, you can get treatment, even to the extent of signing yourself in to a mental hospital, and still be eligible for firearms purchase. The ATF trusts that anyone who has not been adjudicated or involuntarily committed has the capacity to think things through and make an informed decision as to whether they feel they would be a safe and responsible gun owner.


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Francis
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05 Jun 2010, 8:33 pm

I own guns.



LucasCrouch
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05 Jun 2010, 9:04 pm

Well...I might be stuck taking abilify soon bothers me some.

And i feel stupid for giving my SSN to my mother earlier today when she asked for it.

And I dont know what she could be planning to use it for.



Notsurprised
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05 Jun 2010, 9:49 pm

I don't know anything about the gun laws in Canada.
But I hope nobody would allow me to own a firearm
I hope they look into mental health records.
Also I can not even look after paying bills, don't think
I could take care of a gun.
I am just speaking for myself
and not condeming gun ownership
scairy thing is I could easily build a firearm



kx250rider
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06 Jun 2010, 12:00 pm

Buying a gun; at least in CA and in TX, is only a federal background check for criminal records. For a concealed carry permit in TX, you will be asked in the application whether or not you have ever seen a psychiatrist. You must answer "NO", or it will open up a can of worms. That's a subjective question, and if confronted, you can just say you saw him/her on behalf of a relative or spouse, in the course of their therapy and none of your own. Same for drivers' license in TX, but not in CA. Psychopaths with murder records can have drivers' licenses in CA.

I'm a gun collector, and recreational target shooter. They better not make any new rules about Asperger's and gun ownership, or I'll be sunk!

Charles



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06 Jun 2010, 12:24 pm

Apply for one and see. I bet they just look to see if you have a police record with something serious. There are people getting gun permits all the time who probably should not have one.

Just so anyone knows, carrying a stun gun is really good protection. They are legal in most states and don't require a permit. You can also get the kind that have a disabling pin, so if your assailant grabs it from you, you pull the pin back with you as they take it and that person cannot stun you with it.

I think people should be able to carry weapons to protect themselves, but if you cant handle it then an attacker can just take it from you and use it on you. Knives and firearms would be the worst thing you could carry if you are a person who could not handle yourself in a physical attack. So before going and arming yourself to the teeth, I would advise taking a self defense class.

Always run and scream if someone tries something. People freeze sometimes-hopefully you wont. They cant hit a moving target so easily if they have a gun so run no matter what. Walk like you have a purpose wherever you go. They pick on people who seem hesitant or weak.

I have told my little girl for years that if someone grabs her to bite them until she tastes blood or stick her finger into their eyeball until it squishes- do it quick and with force. It is them or you. If a man grabs you from behind, reach back, grab, and twist.



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06 Jun 2010, 1:36 pm

If you like guns, buy them. 8)


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06 Jun 2010, 7:35 pm

The state of Florida is only looking to see if you have been committed by a judge for treatment. If you have ever been Baker acted you can still buy and own guns as long as either they discharged you after 3 days or if you agreed to stay longer voluntarily. If you have not been held more than 3 days involuntarily, go ahead and fill out the background check, just go to a different gun store because they might refuse you service.

A medical diagnosis alone does not disqualify you.
Taking psych meds does not disqualify you.
Make sure your mom doesn't find out. Your mom or sister could call the cops in a panic, though if the cops come out, they will just jack you up and leave because you haven't done anything illegal.
I don't know if your mom would go so far as to call social security on you, but the only way she is going to navigate that bureaucracy is to go down to an office and take a number. Chances are that they are not allowed to speak to her unless you signed a waiver, and even then, there is nothing stating you can't use the money to buy a gun for protection and recreation.
In the event someone tries to insinuate that you are a paranoid vigilante and a lunatic for wanting to defend yourself instead of relying o the police, cite to them the supreme court case Warren vs. DC to show them that self defense really is a basic need.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

Also, as for your mom mooching off you and asking for your social security number, go talk to your bank and ask them about how to watch out for possible identity theft.


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LucasCrouch
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12 Jun 2010, 6:40 pm

John_Browning wrote:
The state of Florida is only looking to see if you have been committed by a judge for treatment. If you have ever been Baker acted you can still buy and own guns as long as either they discharged you after 3 days or if you agreed to stay longer voluntarily. If you have not been held more than 3 days involuntarily, go ahead and fill out the background check, just go to a different gun store because they might refuse you service.

A medical diagnosis alone does not disqualify you.
Taking psych meds does not disqualify you.
Make sure your mom doesn't find out. Your mom or sister could call the cops in a panic, though if the cops come out, they will just jack you up and leave because you haven't done anything illegal.
I don't know if your mom would go so far as to call social security on you, but the only way she is going to navigate that bureaucracy is to go down to an office and take a number. Chances are that they are not allowed to speak to her unless you signed a waiver, and even then, there is nothing stating you can't use the money to buy a gun for protection and recreation.
In the event someone tries to insinuate that you are a paranoid vigilante and a lunatic for wanting to defend yourself instead of relying o the police, cite to them the supreme court case Warren vs. DC to show them that self defense really is a basic need.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

Also, as for your mom mooching off you and asking for your social security number, go talk to your bank and ask them about how to watch out for possible identity theft.


But im worried still i'll be barred...and I lack a full drivers license, and I have to close my bank account due to mysteriously having 0.16 cents in my account (my bank charges me penalty fees in savings should I have it below 100$) (I have 40$ in an 1 year old unclaimed money order from a deceased loved one, Im reluctant to even try to claim that due to the party being deceased and the money order for being a year old.)

And i've yet to get a reply from my parent on why I asked she requested my SSN, And im waiting on my next doctor visit, And since im worried my doctor isnt the type to keep my conversation confidential to my mother and sibling and it be difficult to find another, beside this Doc already knows my SSN since i've had to give it out in order to make an SSD claim.

I do like some of the advice the people given me and I plan to try it soon, The sad thing is...once im on SSD, Im stuck giving up 500 of almost my entire check paying half a mortage on a mobile home that I dont want any part of and she herself got in this mess after lending the place to tenants who couldnt even keep the place clean and always toyed with her on rent payments; And if I've objected...She would try to blacklist me on certain things and i've no money whatsoever to get a lawyer and I dont know what to do to legally keep her away from me for good as soon as I am on SSD (I told them I plan to be on it for half a decade.).