What if it's not a spectrum, but a circle?

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This is just some hogwash idea that popped into my brainskull. By some, autism and schizophrenia are considered two opposite ends of one spectrum with NT in the middle. But, how do we determine where the "ends" are? What if it's not a spectrum, but just like how Asperger's and Schizotypal are kindasorta next to NT, Kanner's autism and schizphrenia are next to each other on this loop? This might sound dumb, but haven't scientists found that most things are circular or spherical whether it is a physical or metaphorical object?

Are there overlaps anywhere?

That's an interesting concept that should be looked into more thoroughly.

Why not this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_cubicuboctahedron

: D

double post

Last edited by heliocopters on 07 Jun 2010, 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The earth is not flat.

I think that's cool.

We are complex individuals right?

I haven't heard that schizophrenia and autism are opposites. Actually, I've heard the opposite. That they have some things in common, but also differences. Like, one dimension that's similar, another that's different.

That fits in with my view of autism as a multidimensional continuum.

Looking at your wording, i get the image of the color wheel and how shades of color mesh with others to create a whole spectrum of color. You might be onto something with that concept as it takes into consideration on how to consider different neuropathies. Quite interesting . . .

Schizotyes are considered to have "autistic" cognition and share many of the similar traits. It IS thought to be true that autism and schizophrenia are very similar, but there is one key difference: most autistics get better at interacting with the world around them as they get older and mature, while schizotypes are born with the same skills as NTs, but then (usually beginning in late adolescence or early adulthood) those skills begin to disappear and the mind begins to degenerate. There are also studies to suggest that autism and schizophrenia have the same genetic predisposition. If you look quickly at the diagnostic criteria of AS and Schizotypal (Personality) Disorder, they have a LOT in common, and without proper childhood analysis, doctors can find it very difficult to decipher between the two, and misdiagnosises are common, especially if the doctor is a "quick-let's-get-this-over-with" kind of guy.

I'm not about to say that my idea isn't BS, though. I ain't got no PhD. I'd like to hear more about what you've heard and thought about.

I think a circle is probably a better symbol than axis, but I don't think either of them are really accurate. I think the mind is more like a complex ecosystem, which isn't my idea but I think makes more sense. Thomas Armstrong talks about that in "Neurodiversity" which I'm reading right now. I doubt he's the first one to make that point, and don't remember if he referenced someone. My apologies to the guy if he is the originator.

I've been following some of those studies a little as my Eldest son has AS and is bi-polar probably moving toward schizotypal. We want to see how much of it is puberty and how much is going to stick. He's been bi-polar since the age of nine, the scizotypal stuff is more recent. I'm hoping it's a phase but there is so much schizophrenia on his dad's side the chances are good it'll stick.

I think you're on the right track, but also utterly incorrect.

Yes, we're not just a straight line. I'm glad to see that someone else has noticed the similarities.

I've spent a long time feeling alone, which isn't painful for me, but it does wear, kind of like eventually an NT would want to stop socializing long enough to take a nap every once in a while. Anyway, the two books that have made me feel the most understood, the most connected to someone else, were Thinking in Pictures by Temple Grandin (no surprise there) and The Center Cannot Hold by Elyn Saks, which is the memoir of a successful schizophrenic. ("Successful" here defined as "married law professor with more friends to thank in her acknowledgments section than I've had in my life.")

Yes, we have a lot in common. That's why we need to stand together with them. It will about double our numbers, pool our collective knowledge and be a good first step toward the acceptance of people based not on specific labels.

what if schizophrenia could be a response to undiagnosed autism?

i really think some break from reality is necessary to cope with that.

Now you have that "circle of life" song stuck in my head !