"fake aspies" and self diagnosis. DISLIKE, sorry.

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happymusic
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13 Jun 2010, 2:58 pm

capriwim wrote:
b9 wrote:
you can not live a life where no one notices a problem with you if you are autistic, and it seems unbelievable to me that someone can read a pamphlet that resolves their life's questions at 20 something years of age.

all through my youngest years i posed a major problem to the main stream school system, and it is impossible that i would never have been noticed as someone who needed to be placed in an alternative situation,


You say you were a worry to your parents. This implies that your parents cared about you and took responsible action. From what you say, it seems also that the health authorities paid attention, and were aware of autism as a condition.

With many of the older generation of people on the spectrum, people may have noticed a problem but lack of awareness and understanding, and sometimes lack of parental care as well, means that the problem was seen as the child being bad. Or the parents may have been ashamed, seeing the 'problem' as stigmatising, and trying to beat it out of the child, or hide the child. Values and understanding and awareness change over time, and today society is a lot more accepting and understanding of disability than it was in the past.

In my situation, I was noticed plenty of times as a problem and someone who needed to be placed in an alternative situation, but when that happened, my parents moved house to escape the situation. My mother was neglectful and abusive, with problems of her own, and as far as she was concerned, I was a problem child who was naughty. She did not want anything looked into further, because, like any abusive parent, she was afraid her own abuse would be exposed. My father worked long hours and lived in a lot of denial - he wanted to see his children as successful and 'normal' - he refused to believe it when my school advised that I needed to be put into a special school.

And then came the problematic fact that I have a very high IQ. I was sent to an educational psychologist, who tested my IQ and then declared that I was a gifted child and that my problem must simply be boredom, and a failure to understand that teachers are authority figures. Back then, if you had a high IQ, you were seen as okay!

Rather than judge others for not having had a diagnosis at an early age, an alternative perspective would be to be thankful for parents who were concerned, and health authorities who were aware of autism. An early diagnosis is a very fortunate thing to have.


Good points, capriwim. Autism was definitely associated with a low IQ in the 80s and early 90s, when I was in school. I was bounced back and forth between gifted classes and special ed ones because my processing problems slowed me down verbally while my visual memory allowed me to learn info as soon as it was presented to me in writing. Once I learned to read lips (on my own), I didn't go back to special ed and was completely under the radar.

Also, for the first half of my schooling, I was in private schools - which simply don't have the support network that public schools do. By support network, I mean things like school psychologists, counselors, and the same procedures for detecting learning disabilities. There were fewer teachers who weren't necessarily educated in how to work with kids with special needs. And even if they had been, there simply wasn't a category for aspie kids yet. In public schools we have so many staff and teachers who are prepped to notice things like learning disabilities or developmental disorders as part of their licensing process. Unfortunately, in private schools, this kind of knowledge/certification is not required. So, even today, it is perfectly possible for a kid to go through private schools without anyone picking up on, or following through on unusual behavior patterns.

One thing that can contribute to people not being diagnosed early is the smaller class size in private schools. When I was in kindergarten, I was in an extremely small school and was the only kindergartner. My teacher worked one on one with me all year and taught me to read. My mother still firmly believes that had I been in a regular class, I would have fallen through the cracks and had the same reading problems that my dad and others on his side have. So I didn't have to be labeled with anything in that environment. My teacher adjusted her teaching style to teach me as an individual.

Also, people in my family did notice problems with me but we were in absolute poverty with no heater and profound domestic violence. They were concerned about my obsessive behaviors and mutism, but honestly, my problems weren't life threatening and there were bigger problems to handle at the time.



redwulf25_ci
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13 Jun 2010, 3:40 pm

Leekduck wrote:
Yeah its annoying when people pretend to be autistic, I think the reason so many people are complaining about the fact that diagnosed autistics dislike self-diagnosed autistics is that the self-diagnosed autistics secretely know they are not actualy autistic!


And you're basing this claim on what now?



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13 Jun 2010, 3:50 pm

I see a conundrum here.

I'm seeing a lot of Aspies here who seem to be extremely convinced that self-diagnosed Aspies aren't really Aspies, and to be quite honest it puzzles me.

One of AS's strongest traits is distrust of NT's, and "the NT world. It's not hard to see that here and on other forums as well.

Another strong trait (though not always) is the powerful drive to insist that others quit being judgmental of Aspies.

First of all, who is diagnosing most of you? Aspies or NT's? If the answer is "NT" for you, aren't you placing trust in the NT who diagnosed you?

Second, if you are one who insists that people quit judging you based on your Autism, then how do you reconcile that with insisting that self-diagnosis is practically "automatically" "fake?" Aren't YOU being just as judgmental as you insist others NOT to be?

Doesn't make sense to me...


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capriwim
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13 Jun 2010, 4:18 pm

I found a youtube video which explains some of the issues quite well:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xub71EowtkI[/youtube]

I really relate to this - it certainly explains how it is for me. I am always putting in a great deal of effort to function and process things and interact in a relatively 'normal' way. It involves huge amounts of analysing and is exhausting. I've had to learn to do that in order to survive. I notice it more when I'm unwell or tired - then I don't have the energy to maintain all my strategies and I become more obviously autistic.

It is possible, if you have the intellect and the determination, to develop strategies to 'pretend to be normal'. Those strategies make life easier in some ways, but are also extremely fatiguing.


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happymusic
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13 Jun 2010, 4:19 pm

punto a Sr.Xxx!



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13 Jun 2010, 4:20 pm

LancetChick wrote:
I can't imagine why anyone would fake being an aspie

Some people do because they think aspies are a bit thick and they think that because they cannot make it in the NT world because of another mental condition or some other reason like not having a very nice perosnality, then we aspies will be fooled by them and they will be accepted, something which they long for.

Now, if someone genuinely believes they are on the spectrum but for some reason like finance, they cannot get a diagnosis, then there is no problem, it is just something they believe.

The problem comes when they pretend to have the condition and then others take notice of their 'traits' and the way they are and with all of the things they can do and then think that it is not a big deal to have autism, that cheats us. It also cheats them because whilst they are pretending, they are not dealing with their own real issues and time is being lost when they could be having treatment or support for whatever is really wrong.



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13 Jun 2010, 4:46 pm

Actually, come to think of it, on one website I was on, there was this chap who claimed to have Aspergers, and who behaved in a manipulative abusive way towards people and kept blaming it on his Aspergers. He really didn't seem to be like anyone I know with Aspergers. I can't say for certain that he didn't have Aspergers, but I'm sure that there were other factors at play that were nothing to do with Aspergers, and that he was using the Aspergers (real or otherwise) as an umbrella term to explain and excuse all inappropriate and abusive behaviour. That annoyed me, because it gives people with Aspergers a bad name, and creates incorrect impressions of what Aspergers is.


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13 Jun 2010, 4:49 pm

capriwim wrote:
Actually, come to think of it, on one website I was on, there was this chap who claimed to have Aspergers, and who behaved in a manipulative abusive way towards people and kept blaming it on his Aspergers. He really didn't seem to be like anyone I know with Aspergers. I can't say for certain that he didn't have Aspergers, but I'm sure that there were other factors at play that were nothing to do with Aspergers, and that he was using the Aspergers (real or otherwise) as an umbrella term to explain and excuse all inappropriate and abusive behaviour. That annoyed me, because it gives people with Aspergers a bad name, and creates incorrect impressions of what Aspergers is.


Asperger's Syndrome Jack

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhxuV1qBlfo[/youtube]

I think autistics (or any neurological persuasion) are capable of being jerks as much as the next person.



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13 Jun 2010, 6:08 pm

capriwim wrote:
I found a youtube video which explains some of the issues quite well:

(youtube video was here)

I really relate to this - it certainly explains how it is for me. I am always putting in a great deal of effort to function and process things and interact in a relatively 'normal' way. It involves huge amounts of analysing and is exhausting. I've had to learn to do that in order to survive. I notice it more when I'm unwell or tired - then I don't have the energy to maintain all my strategies and I become more obviously autistic.

It is possible, if you have the intellect and the determination, to develop strategies to 'pretend to be normal'. Those strategies make life easier in some ways, but are also extremely fatiguing.


My wife just found her videos and site. Pretty fascinating stuff!


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13 Jun 2010, 6:17 pm

MechAnime wrote:
I think autistics (or any neurological persuasion) are capable of being jerks as much as the next person.


Oh definitely. It's just annoying when people attribute their jerk-like behaviour to Aspergers, rather than just a case of being a jerk!

I've never come across Asperger Jack before - he's quite something. Documentaries like that make me cringe. Fortunately, there have been some better documentaries on British TV about the autistic spectrum more recently.


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capriwim
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13 Jun 2010, 6:19 pm

MrXxx wrote:
My wife just found her videos and site. Pretty fascinating stuff!


Yeah, I just found her site today through Twitter. I really like her video on executive dysfunction.


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13 Jun 2010, 6:23 pm

MaryReen wrote:
I get what you're saying... but here's a point about the doctor diagnosing when someone is young...

I am now officially diagnosed with Aspergers, but for years I was considered OC. When I was younger my obsessive tendencies stood out more so than my social and sensory issues, though it was all there. My other problems were assumed to have stemmed from me being gifted...stupid assumptions. I grew up believing that my horrible interactions with others were my own fault, as in I just wasn't putting enough effort into making friends.

So yeah. I know from experience that possible 'fake aspies' can be overlooked by docs and such.


Awesome point. Though I can't say a agree that Aspie type problems being mistaken for simply being "gifted" is necessarily stupid. Gifted folks, even without any specific diagnosable problems (and there are quite a lot of them in my family), tend to experience many problems much the same as Aspies, among other diagnosable conditions, including Schizophrenia. It could be because many of them have undiagnosed conditions, but I doubt they all do. It's pretty unusual for highly gifted individuals to be as socially "adept" as most NT's are, possibly because they may spend so much time with their heads buried in books and theory. A while back I was looking at Mensa.org web site (you have to have an IQ of 135 or better to be a member, and take a monitored test to prove it). At the time, they had a plethora of links to sites dealing with Depression, Autism, Asperger's, Scizophrenia, ADD, ADHD, and a bunch of others there. I just went now and can't find them. Seems they redesigned their site, perhaps to minimize the visibility of that sort of "stuff."


They were there, and may still be somewhere. I think it's pretty telling that they were there.


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13 Jun 2010, 6:43 pm

MrXxx wrote:
I see a conundrum here.

I'm seeing a lot of Aspies here who seem to be extremely convinced that self-diagnosed Aspies aren't really Aspies, and to be quite honest it puzzles me.

One of AS's strongest traits is distrust of NT's, and "the NT world. It's not hard to see that here and on other forums as well.

Another strong trait (though not always) is the powerful drive to insist that others quit being judgmental of Aspies.

First of all, who is diagnosing most of you? Aspies or NT's? If the answer is "NT" for you, aren't you placing trust in the NT who diagnosed you?

Second, if you are one who insists that people quit judging you based on your Autism, then how do you reconcile that with insisting that self-diagnosis is practically "automatically" "fake?" Aren't YOU being just as judgmental as you insist others NOT to be?

Doesn't make sense to me...


Mr.Xxx, I would like to frame this on my wall.

What has happened to you aspies in captivity? Do you think you are the first autistics because they stuck a tag in your ear?

Or perhaps you have been misdiagnosed ...



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13 Jun 2010, 7:10 pm

Maybe if people have grown up in a society where Aspergers has always been defined, recognised and diagnosed, it's hard for them to envisage a society where that simply didn't happen.

Things don't officially exist until they are given a label. But of course that doesn't mean that Aspergers didn't exist before it was named as such. It had to exist for the label to be made in the first place. But what it meant was that people, having no label to be slotted into, had nothing on which to hang their differences. They were just seen as weird or difficult or awkward or annoying. Some were misdiagnosed with childhood schizophrenia. Many would develop mental health problems as a result of not being able to fit in or understand why they were different.


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700
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13 Jun 2010, 7:20 pm

SilverWolf7 wrote:
700 wrote:
I have noticed some outright NT people posting and find it rather weird. I find it hard to talk to people on NT sites and yet this site is fine which is why I cant understand why they want to socialize on here !? If you think you might be or are looking for information thats one thing but...... maybe its because AS people say what they actually mean rather than alter motives and things ?


I don't think it wrong that there are NT's here. Some are parents of children with AS, some have friends/lovers with AS and some are just trying to understand it better.

What better way then by finding out by people who are on the spectrum?

I do the same thing with some of my interests (because they can be really weird and not something to talk about in public places without causing a stir.)



I didnt say wrong I just said weird. I spend time on factual sites when you compare the NT photography site with the AS art section there is no comparison. This could be due to the UK/America difference I havent paid attention to the locations of people on the art thread. People will do whatever they want anyway, life is to short to worry about how they choose to spend there time.



700
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13 Jun 2010, 7:27 pm

MechAnime wrote:
capriwim wrote:
Actually, come to think of it, on one website I was on, there was this chap who claimed to have Aspergers, and who behaved in a manipulative abusive way towards people and kept blaming it on his Aspergers. He really didn't seem to be like anyone I know with Aspergers. I can't say for certain that he didn't have Aspergers, but I'm sure that there were other factors at play that were nothing to do with Aspergers, and that he was using the Aspergers (real or otherwise) as an umbrella term to explain and excuse all inappropriate and abusive behaviour. That annoyed me, because it gives people with Aspergers a bad name, and creates incorrect impressions of what Aspergers is.


Asperger's Syndrome Jack

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhxuV1qBlfo[/youtube]

I think autistics (or any neurological persuasion) are capable of being jerks as much as the next person.


Well AS or not my parents would NEVER have stood for this behavior and I think that it is probably the same for alot of the older people on this site. And by having strict parents you withdraw inside yourself which if you are a female is not questioned that much especially in a area that is still not AS aware ! !!