Medical marijuana is now available legally in the UK

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Yeah, well, are you against all of psychiatry, then? If the only negative drugs you see are the ones that are technically (currently) illegal then the above isn't true, and at best it's hypocrisy. Or perhaps you're one of the religious types who never tried any drugs at all but still condemn them like they're Satan incarnate himself. I admit I'm assuming too much based on the one sentence, but I'm personally very frustrated on how ignorant and prejudiced people in the world can be...

I find it very funny how many people feel that they're entitled to illegal drugs

I'm not religious at all, neither am I perfect, neither am I obsessed with being moral, and of course I'm not against all psychiatry, you're thinking of L. Ron Hubbard there

No, I simply think that illegal drugs are illegal for a reason. If you're in a country where it's legal for medicinal reasons, then I guess it's fine if you are prescribed it, but if not, then your argument is out of the window because you wouldn't take any other medicine unless you needed it would you?

legal and moral are two entirely different things.

the legal status of many drugs is largely politically motivated. Look at the reclassification of canabis to class B in the uk despite all advice being given to the government saying they should leave it C.

to me it seems absurd that one can dictate what another is allowed to do to themselves. a large percentage of illegal drugs do not have much effect on society other than the crime they are linked with as a result of being illegal. alcohol to to the contrary is legal and causes a large percentage of crime and violent behavior.

There is evidence that cannabis can cause paranoid issues to the extent that it actually causes schizophrenia.

Now, as you correctly stated, alcohol is legal and it still causes problems in society. So if LSD were to be made legal, say, you think that wouldn't cause problems? If being drunk causes trouble, having people roaming the streets tripping on acid would certainly cause issues. As would having everyone stoned and paranoid.

BTW, for the record, I think alcohol needs to be illegal too.

It's actually a bit complicated when it comes to this. There is a small amount of evidence that heavy use in adolescence can bring on the onset of schizophrenia. There is a small amount of evidence that heavy use can bring on the onset of schizophrenia earlier in life for people would have have got it anyway later in life. However, this is also the same as too much fast-food can bring on heart attacks, too much exercise can be damaging and so foth. In general, there is little evidence to suggest Cannabis is very harmful in fact just the opposite. It has no recorded deaths, and according to polls Cannabis use has risen in the last 50 years but the rate of schizophrenia has dropped and still falling.

Booze prohibition doesn't work, we've been there. Drug prohibition is not working and many circles believe is does more harm then good, just like alcohol prohibition.

The legality of drugs is often a tricky one as well. Why is Cannabis illegal? Well, there are a few reasons, but none have to do with harm reduction and in-fact a massive amount of this was down to racism by the Americans in the 20's and 30's of blacks and Mexican immigrants. There are also other reports of use the falling use of trees to use industrial hemp instead which is a very strong and useful fiber which has countless uses. Other things like LSD and MDMA being illegal are arguable and surrounded in contrersy but I believe has very little to logical, fact based harm reduction, the rates of deaths from both of those drugs is very VERY low and far better education would have lead to lower deaths rather then just the hum drum "don't do drugs kids". I have research drugs for 9 years (its a personal hobby of mine and would like to write a book on them), and the worst thing about drugs that I have seen with all of the reports and evidence that I have seen is the legality and education surrounding drugs.

So many people do drugs in everyday life and carry on with jobs, a lot of very hard working and successful people use drugs you just don't know about it. So saying everyone walking around stoned and paranoid would be terrible isn't really justified, due to the amount of people who do drugs or have done them at some point in their life. Alcohol is high on the harm/dependency charts, others like LSD, Cannabis and MDMA are very low so you think we will get more problems if people switched their drug of choice? I'll be honest, I've NEVER EVER seen a fight with people on MDMA or acid or even a small argument for that fact (the one I have seen ended with the two of them saying sorry and hugging after about 30 seconds). I and many others, have been on the receiving end, more then once, from people smashed off their face on booze.

I welcome your comments and personal opinion, I however must whole-heartedly disagree.

Professor John Henry of Imperial College, London, and colleagues say in the British Medical Journal: "Even if the number of deaths attributable to cannabis smoking turned out to be a fraction of the 30,000 we believe could be possible, cannabis smoking would still be described as a major health hazard. If we also add in the likely mental health burden to that of medical illnesses and premature death, the potential effects of cannabis cannot be ignored."

Source

Zammit and colleagues concluded that cannabis use is associated with an increased risk of developing schizophrenia, consistent with a causal relationship. Use of cannabis prior to age of conscription was associated with a 30% increase in risk of developing schizophrenia. Risk increased with frequency of use. Cannabis use more than 50 times prior to age of conscription was associated with a 6.7 fold increase in risk for developing schizophrenia.

Source

Hmm...



Making anything illegal does not stop it completely, that's just a fact. Where there is a demand there is a supply. However, if alcohol is driven underground, it will become less mainstream, and you won't get people drunk on the streets any more, will you?



To be fair here, cannabis does do very little damage if you compare it other illegal drugs, but your opinion is that all illegal drugs should be legal, and other drugs like heroin have much higher recorded death rates - 700 in the UK alone as of 2008. Cocaine is rather more dangerous, too.

Oh, and when people get addicted to these drugs, it can cause them to turn to crime to get their drug money whether the drugs themselves are legal or not.

BTW, for the record, I'd just like to say that I do believe cannabis should be legal as long as cigarettes are, but both should be illegal as far as I'm concerned. I've said this before in a similar thread, so I thought I'd make it clear here too.

I agree with all that kicken18 said.

As we both know there are very few studies claiming a link between shizophrenia and canabis. as far as subjective observations go i am under the impression that only certain people will have negative symptoms. It does not make most of it's users paranoid.

There was a study a few years back suggesting higher canabis use amongst schizophrenics.

First off. It was an epidemiological study so there is no evidence from that paper of canabis as a causal agent for schizophrenia. Many people would claim that the correlation is only a result of higher substance use (studies show higher substance use) amongst schizophrenics

Second. It was published in the lancett which is very poorly regarded amongst the scientific community. for example. It published dr wakefields infamous MMR studies.

I do believe there is further evidence to suggest that it may increase risk of schizophrenia amongst highly susceptible individuals. The important point this is only relevant in chronic overuse amongst addolescents. I have not read any of this in depth. I have heard though that some studies are dubiously funded by pharmaceutical companies who have a vested interest in creating a dangerous image around canabis. They cannot patent and make money out of what is a proven medicine. It is proven to help some people with multiple sclerosis. There is a large number of anecdotal claims of it's use in other diseases. It has been shown to be effective in many other studies. I can list many and probably find many more if you want?

am i missing the reason for your objection?

as far as your LSD comment goes. I cannot claim things would be better or worse. that would be guesswork. I will say though that under decriminalisation,normalisation or legalisation of drug use there would be far better public understanding about how these drugs can be used safely. Eg. most people are aware it is dangerous to drive whilst drunk. Perhaps people would understand the limitations they have whilst tripping and limit their actions accordingly. Most drugs do not let you lose control in a similar way as alcohol does so i think it is unfair to assume they are reckless or unsafe to be taking.

drugs can be used or abused. Many illegal drugs have incredibly useful pharmacological properties. it is an undeniable fact

cocaine and heroin are dangerous and psychologically addictive (interesting though that heroin is less physically addictive than alcohol and is also not hugely toxic) i would agree they are dangerous substances but criminalising them makes it harder for addicts to find help. risk of prosecution and a social stigma surrounding drug use prevents people from finding help.

Drug purity is a big problem. if you do not know the purity of the drugs then how can you predict what would be a 'safe' dosage. in the past there have been overdoses linked with particularly strong batches of heroin or batches containing dangerous chemicals as a result of incomplete synthesis and purification or intentional adulteration by dealers to maximise profits.

If these dangerous overdosable drugs were of a known strength and makeup it would greatly reduce the number of deaths from overdose etc.

I am not convinced that legalistaion is the way to go but decriminalisation is highly effective. From what i have heard portugal has done well by it.

Back in the real world, I have seen my doctor this morning and he thinks it is fine for me (Aspergers) to seek medical cannabis in Holland.

I think we have to look at each case individually, and not listen with biased ears to the opinions of either 'druggies' or 'straights'.

Where I come from, 'Druggy' is a rude word a bit like 'n****r' but then you ignorant 'aspies' aren't to know that so I forgive you.

I am not suggesting you go out and start medicating, this information is for anyone who already self-medicates with marijuana

I do understand that a lot of aspergers like to debate facts about health so please go for it, but do quote your sources please.

Thanks to everyone who agreed with me, and arse to anyone who disagrees with me

But you'd need to go all the way there (not to mention that regular usage would be impossible, unless you live there)? No way it could be legally prescribed in the UK?

No, it can not be legally prescribed and it can not be legally used within the UK. The only legal users are those enrolled on a clinical trial of THC-free oral therapy. There is absolutely no evidence that any form of cannabis has value in treating autism.

These druggies claim that if marijuana can legally be used in one state, then it must also be okay in neighbouring states (links to the whacky-backy interpretation above). The fact is that possession and use in the UK remain illegal.

I would point out I do not put opiates like Heroin, Crack and Crystal Meth under the same category as LSD, MDAM, Cannabis etc as they are top of the chart on the dependency/danger charts. I'm not sure where I stand on those 3 drugs (H, Crack, Meth) and the legalisation, however I do believe that things like shooting galleries would be good to allow heroin users to use clean needles and to seak redibly available advice. After a while of people trying to help them every time they want to shoot up it will hit home on a number of people.

[Putting on my doctor hat]

There are certainly some beneficial aspect to cannabis, particularly as an analgesic, as an appetite stimulant and to mitigate intraocular pressure. However, what has not yet been demonstrated to my satisfaction is that cannabis represents a superior approach to presentations like pain, nausea, loss of appetite or elevated io pressure.

I am also concerned that we have blindly signed off on smoking as a delivery method. I would be somewhat more comfortable with oral or ventilator administration, but that is not the solution sought by most patients seeking 'medical marijuana.'

For patients in late stage, terminal illness, I see no objection to pretty much any medical approach they choose to make. If I am content to sign off on an Rx for a morphine pump, why should I object to an Rx for cannabis?

Similarly, I am supportive of patients whose therapies involve significant side effects (e.g. chemo/rad therapy) for which they are responsive to cannabis. Given the scope of impact from treatment, if there is a relatively simple solution that appears to work with minimal additional impacts, then I'm not going to stand in the way.

Where I begin to get skeptical are the cases where the patient presents low-grade, chronic symptoms, and claims that other therapies have been ineffective. How am I to distinguish between the patient who is genuinely unresponsive to primary therapies, and the patient who is merely looking for someone to sign off on a license to continue his drug habit?

I see my role is helping patients make decisions about the best way to manage their own health care. But that is not the same thing as unquestioningly approving every approach suggested by the patient.

There are studies which show cannabis is not good for mental health. I don't see this as a good thing for people with Aspergers to be using.

But if cannabis is healthy still why is it wrong to use it just for its very effects? Is 'drug habit' a nefarious thing in this context?

The Home office are saying that we cannot legally import herbal cannabis prescribed in Holland under the schengen agreement.

This is going to be challenged in the courts, but first we have to wait for someone to be wrongfully arrested for this, and the authorities are understandably a bit shy of putting it to the test (i.e. they say it is illegal, but if you actually do it and announce it in advance then there will be nobody at customs to greet you).

Join facebook group 'Cannabis For Autism' if you support the right to use this medicine