Why do NT people not tell you how they feel?

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well said.




yeah, maybe this is true.
in a way i am always shocked that my point of view is not shared by everybody. i figure they agree but just aren't brave enough to say so.

and i don't believe there should be consequences for being honest, and i often can't help acting on what i think should be how things are instead of how things actually are.

I think that's an insightful point. I think that's where the idea that Aspies are naive comes from, and I suppose that is true naivete: the not knowing how people will react to statements that are too open and too candid. My own strategy is to reveal very little most of the time, and then go overboard other times, expressing my feelings and frustrations, and getting either an uncomfortable silence in return, or an opening to manipulate me.

I feel that way too (bolded comment). I suppose that's a lack of proper theory of mind? I assume that facts will be known and clear to all, when often it's just the opposite. Uncomfortable facts are discounted for more convenient untruths. Yet I can't stop thinking that it should be right to be honest, and often assume that it is when all my experience points to the contrary.

I've been in a situation where the de-facto leader of a group was despotic and generally disliked by everyone, but when I made the mistake of mentioning it out loud, then, poof, no one remembered ever having had a problem with him and I was the one who was unacceptable.

Yeah but then put them on Facebook and they seem to instantly forget this!

Ironically, I as an aspie was by far the most discreet of all my network on facebook (before I decided to drop it like the garbage it really is) and it was a weird feeling because it's like it becomes sort of the bizarro-world of neurotypes.

wrong for being right.

yesterday i almost had a meltdown at the post office. waiting in line is always excruciating for me. and there was a nutty guy in line going on and on, ranting to himself and with a lot of vulgar words thrown in. i finally said something - i said he was in a public place, please stop with the vulgarity. it had to have been bothering everybody. but no one spoke up in my defense, and the guy responded by attacking me (verbally). the security guard wouldn't do anything about him, the employee at the counter wouldn't do anything about him.

this is an example of how i think whatever was said above, about NTs understanding the possible repercussions of being honest, is probably true. but i couldn't help it.

also an example of how i am always surprised other people don't agree with me. they might have been thrilled that i spoke up, but knew it would not benefit them to say so.

ultimately also i don't agree NTs are the ones with empathy and we lack it. wouldn't someone with empathy have understood that i was having a terrible time dealing with this guy and come to my defense?

in a way i can't put aside the feeling the world is flipped on its end and everyone behaves backwards. it really does me no good.

You both hit it here, +2.
If you do reveal your hand, especially in the workplace - look out! I'm one to still do this somewhat though, as I know no other way.
Call me naive, babe or otherwise.

It's a shame that people are so divided out of fear that you they are on the defensive. I do like/admire and respect a " maverick" , one who stands alone, unafraid to be themselves. (Yes, yes, a true self-actualized individual.)

Maybe that's it: do folks really know how to be themselves? Aren't most just corralled from their youth onwards and assume a defensive mirror identity? Do these folks believe there is no value in truth, and hence, that anything is/ can be a reality; subsequently unable to sense 'quality' and delineate the junk? Is 'reality' merely what is 'immediate', so it is just at the leading edge of your eyes?

I think folks are just trying to be what they think others want them to be. Its easier for NT's because their abilities match the expectations of others (the majority group of NT's). Our abilities are out of the ordinary and so makes it harder for us to do what others want or expect. I also think NT's have learned the value of telling lies as oppose to thinking truth has no value.

I think lying requires a good grasp of how different people will react to the truth. NT's must be able to see that the truth would be more trouble than a white lie. So they don't tell the truth because the value of lying is greater than the value of the truth. But I think aspies cannot even grasp how people would react to most things. So for us, telling the truth will always carry the greatest value because we cannot calculate the value of lying.

Thats my perspective anyway. I don't lie because I can't work out which lie to tell.

I think it's ironic that the lessons taught to children are that it's noble to follow one's own ideals and do what is right despite obstacles. Great figures in history have done just that. But they neglect to tell us that many of those figures were reviled in their time and had to face persecution (or they do tell us about it as another sign of courage) and that they had to have enormous strength as well as charisma to accomplish what they did. For most of us who are just muddling through our daily lives, being a maverick just gets us into terrible, pointless trouble. NTs who have been socialized by the culture that surrounds them are savvy enough to know not to believe that the lives of famous mavericks can apply to a regular Joe. They get the message that it's best to go along with the crowd. Those of us who bought the message that it's noble to be a maverick but not the subtext that it doesn't work for most real life scenarios end up just being reviled, with no payoff for having stuck to our ideals.


Yes, and I get myself into trouble for it all the time.

i could probably work out lots of lies to tell if i was so inclined. i don't know that they would all be situationally appropriate, but my point is that i am not so inclined.

if i could calculate the "value" (which in my case would really mean my future comfort level, in accordance with possible repercussions of speaking up) of keeping my mouth shut, i might do so more frequently. but i don't in any way whatsoever envy NTs their ability to speak the language of untruth more fluently than i ever could.

One of the ironies I've found as a parent is how often children are told to "use your words." Why? They won't when they grow up.

I agree that NTs keep their own counsel for reasons of discretion, of not offering too much info, because it isn't done, that sort of thing. I don't agree that they are aware of the problems it can cause. If they were asked about it or stopped to think about it, they might recognize why they do it. But aware they are not... well, not necessarily.

My husband offered this insight when I was griping about driving as I so often do. I frequently wonder how other people can be so callous on the road, exhibiting behaviors they would be mortified to be caught at outside the car, risking the lives of others because they think that driving closer equals driving faster. He pointed out that from his perspective (as an NT) they weren't thinking about what they were doing much at all. They were just doing it. He's said this about other things. They aren't thinking the whole thing through. They've gleaned from the others what is generally done and then they have set to do that. And because they really don't put any thought into why, they are totally at sea when someone varies from what they perceive as the norm.

It's ridiculous to expect a norm, if you think about it. There used to be a standard of good manners and now you get people observing all sorts of variations of what is good etiquette. The number of misunderstandings springing from things such as this really ought to be plain to all and serve as a reason to remain flexible but still people persist in setting a standard no one else knows about.

Something i have noticed about NT people is they seem to have a social stigma where expressing you're feelings is considered weak.

I know exactly how you feel as i find myself getting in this situation alot, i guess we are just too honest for our own good.

I always get a 'no, I'm fine' when I ask how someone is feeling, when clearly something is bothering them.

With me it's difficult to discuss anything personal without getting choked up (crying) or getting angry or sometimes I just feel paralyzed by emotion.

Some people on here got it right. Certain behaviors, words, the way you say things have a specific meaning among NTs. It is very clear to all of us NTs, no need to say anything or explain. If you do xyz it means you don't care, or you are a jerk, or whatever. Remember that almost 80% of the communication between NTs is non-verbal. If they don't know you are an Aspie or if they have not read enough about it, they don't realize that you don't get the meaning of these things so they don't think they need to explain. That's all. If you want to improve your communication with NTs I think you need to explain to them that you don't always understand their reactions and they need to tell you what you did that offended them. At least you should do it with people that are close to you (family and close friends).

because they can tell i am unlikely to listen

I agree with this. Although I totally relate to the topic and feel frustrated with how passive-aggressive, dishonest and cowardly NTs can be.

I find that a lie is the more difficult choice. You lie then the other person ask for more information so you have to add to the lie. I worked at a Wendy's once and my sister came in to visit. I told a girl there that she was my girlfriend. The next day that girl asked what I planning to do where we were going to go that night. I saw that my initial lie done on a whim resulted in more questions that would force me to have to keep doing a string of lies and I didn't want that so I just confessed,
I guess NTs find it incredibly easy to support a string of lies.

I made contact with a girl through an online dating site. We e-mailed and even talked on the phone but never met. I mentioned that her voice didn't fit her picture that she sounded smaller. She got mad that I was calling her fat.

Later it was Thanksgiving and I did a bad joke sending an email with a title but no message that said "This turkey survived Thanksgiving." She got mad over the blank content of the email. I tried to apologize. I even called and she wouldn't answer the phone. NTs can be drama queens who just act. Even when you make the effort to apologize and say, "Hey, this was just a misunderstanding," They say you are the one who is wrong.

I had another situation where I was eating dinner with a girl and she wanted me to get something else for her. I said I couldn't afford it, She said, "You can put it on your credit card," as if that somehow made it free. It seems NTs can easily act rashly without foreseeing the consequences and treat you like you are bizarre because you do so.

Yes, I not only don;t know how to lie but I don't choose to be deceitful and would not choose it. On the other hand, there are times when being able to lie would avoid a lot of pain, and it's hard to say if I wouldn't take the opportunity on those occasions to protect myself from more suffering.