Asperger's mischaracterized as a learning disabilty...

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I prefer to think of autism as a disability of automatic learning - Things that others learn without being taught go unlearned and have to be taught. The alternative is to believe that there is somehing in the essential nature - souls, if you like - of NTs that makes them fully comprehend a smile long before they 1st c 1 (i.e. before they're born).

AS is very similar to NVL and some people consider them to be two flavors of the same thing. The differences seem to be articulated vaguely and inconsistently.

One one website, it was held that people with NVL are more likely to have motor delays, even though Hans Asperger first described his subjects as clumsy. It also claimed those with NVL don't have special interests, however according to the DSM-IV criteria for AS, one is not required to have a special interest to have AS.

Yet another website claims that those with NVL simply aren't good at reading other's emotions and expressing their own, but still feels the same range of emotions, while the range of emotions of those with AS are different. I'm not sure how this is substantiated one way or another. This same website claims that those with NVL have poor visual/spatial perception and can't learn by observing, while those with AS have excellent visual/spatial perception skills and are often engineers. There might be some truth to this, on previous testing when I was a child, I did very well in visual/spatial tasks, however as an adult I have a physical impairment which inhibits me on these tests with respect to my speed, and causes me to score low in this area, prompting the learning disability specialist to make a comment about NVL.

I know it is basically a LD because it causes us problems in life. I learned anger problems are learning disabilities and so is ADHD, mental retardation, and problems with self help skills.

These distinctions are interesting in an abstract way. I just don't understand how that changes the actual challenges created by autism. I had a lot of difficulty in school, much of it social, but some of it was directly related to the way I process language and symbols. Learning is all about building abstractions through processing, symbols, language, and other such mechanisms. Problems with the mechanisms of learning exist in many if not all autistics. While from a clinical point of view, labeling autism as primarily a developmental disability might be useful, it has secondary and tertiary issues that for all practical purposes are learning disabilities.

Since I am not a clinician, I most need to know what works for me, not how to correctly split the hairs of clinical descriptions. I might over indulge in the abstract discussions (did you notice?) but in the end, I need practical answers to my challenges.

Perhaps it is a disability in social learning. However i dont see it as disabling in the ability to tackle non social subjects and since they make up the majority of the curriculum i think calling it a learning disability is sticking an unnecessary label upon us that will ultimately hinder our life chances. Look at the jobs AS people are in relative to their IQS and even their educational attainment levels. Discrimination and nastiness just doesn't exist. It's almost omnipresent in the minds of most people as soon as they hear the term "learning disability".

I don't understand where you get the idea that the workplace is like this. I don't have to disclose anything about my condition. It isn't required and rarely necessary. There is nastiness in work environments, but I see it with and without any regard to disabilities being in play. Some people are just nasty. The nasty ones don't need the excuse of a disability, they're mean by default.

Well personally i think i'll disclose the fact that i have AS to any future employer. I don't see why i should be ashamed of it. Maybe they'd be reluctant to employ me for some reason though! I don't see that that would be problem since i have the same basic rights as a human being as anyone else. Apparently disclosing it would make it a problem though?

When I worked at the resteraunt I worked at for 9 years it was with people I went to high school with so they knew I was in special education which they thought gave them the right to treat me like dirt. At the machineshop I worked at for 9 years no one knew what classes I took in high school but I was in fear of having someone who knew me in high school get a job at the shop. If someone I went to school with would have gotten a job with me at the machine shop I would have made an effort to get them fired before they could spill the beans about me. I could not handle another job where I was a pariah.

Last edited by Todesking on 22 Feb 2011, 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

It depends a lot on the situation. Some employers are just what you suspect - biased and sometimes just plain nasty about it. Others aren't. And sometimes AS is completely irrelevant so disclosing on principle can seem a bit self serving. I think the standard recommendation for any job interview is don't disclose anything that isn't relevant to the position, whether it is a disability, health condition or whatever. Bosses don't care that much about personal details. Whether or not can you do the job is first on their minds.

I don't see why AS as a learning disability is such an odd statement to make; in a way, it is a "social learning disability", among other things (AS is more than social, and in some people the social stuff is nearly inconsequential); and is closely related to "non-verbal learning disability". It's about as correct as saying ADHD is a learning disability... technically incorrect, but not entirely off base, and certainly in the same family. It's more global and more pervasive than a specific learning disability, of course, and usually has more of an impact on your daily life, but the two things are pretty similar all the same.

Regarding employers: Unless you can fake it for eight hours a day, consistently, whenever you like, I highly suggest disclosure. Otherwise, they will assume you are deliberately being obtuse and that your social gaffes are insults rather than mistakes.

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this (unless I've overlooked it), but many jobs that don't require college degrees do require good social skills. That will no doubt be discovered imediatly during the interview. So we are already hindered in that sense, regardless of our reading or math comprehention, regardless of our subject knowlege, or how well or how poorly we did in school. Don't get me wrong, there are employers that value quick learners, good problem solvers, and people with eye for detail. But those merits aren't usually proven until after you have the job. The interview tells alot to the employer about how confident, professional, and socially competent a person can present themselves to be. Those are very important things to many employers. Most of us need at least some help with those things. Or they are things we have to practice at or concentrate on more than most people. So how is that any different from any other LD?

As far as i'm concerned i should have equal rights and opportunities with an equivalently intelligent NT. Describing myself as learning disabled hinders my chances of making the most of my intellect. Since it establishes me as "slow" in the eyes of the majority of society. It's a neurological difference and i am not "slower"to learn than an NT. It's a question of ambition and self-worth i think. Should i be happy to have any job and internalize the descriptors of NT's?

"I'm slow so i'm lucky to be stacking shelves at wal mart. Thank you to my employer for helping to me to experience the life-affirming power of wage labour!"

I am committed to either fairness and parity, or oblivion and i can't be happy any other way.

If you can compete without any accommodation, go for it. Then you truly have no disability of any kind.

Maybe the world is a lot nicer than what i think it is. I am extremely socially isolated.

My great revelation in life was when I realized that for the most part this world is utterly indifferent to me. Understanding that there are more than 6 billion people that don't even know I exist made me value what relationships I do have more than ever.

There are nice people and jerks. You are doing well when there are a few nice people in your life. Then you can just ignore the jerks.

You pass judjement too quickly on the learning disabled, and do exactly what you fear others will do unfairly to you. By your impression, learing disability=unintelligent, or even by your description mentally ret*d. That's not true. There are many people with learning disabilities that have very high IQs (though I personally don't think IQ is completely analagous to a person's real intelligence, anyway). Their brains are just a little different in some areas, and they have to take a less traditional approach to do things the way others do them. That takes extraordinary intelligence if they're successful at it. People on the spectrum also have brains that are a little different in some areas, and we too have to learn to navigate a world that doesn't understand or accept those differences. It doesn't matter how intelligent others percieve us, whether or not it's justified. Our social issues will always give us a challenge that most people don't have. That doesn't mean we'll never get any oppurtunities in life. Sometimes you may have to create your own.