Is this aspergers or something else?

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My husband was diagnosed with Aspergers 6 months ago. He has a history of significant depression and anxiety. For 6 years my children and I have dealt with his abusive behaviour which includes

Verbal threats
Swearing
Name-calling
Screaming
Kicking walls
Punching holes in doors
Pushing me
Ranting over and over again about the same things

These outbursts occur when he is under stress (which is most of the time). Typically when things don't go his way he will take his frustration out on us
eg: he misplaces his keys and it is the kids fault because they put something on top of them
he rants about how he wants to hurt the neighbours and will go on and on because he is annoyed at me for not sticking up for
myself when talking to them
he ensures that all of us in the household know when there is something in his way or not to his liking by complaining loudly and
commenting that no-one does any work around the house except for him
more significant abusive behaviour occurs when he is not satisfied with something I have said to him or I don't apologise for something he perceives I should have. He keeps asking me the same questions and is not happy with the answer. 6 months later he is still asking me Why ? Why?

He is seeing a psychologist and openly admits to the therapist and the police and our family that he is abusive. However, he claims that he does not know what else to do in order to make people listen to him and respect him
For instance:

He will be coming in the door with groceries and I might be sitting on the loo or in the middle of something. He might call out and make me aware that he is there. However, my failure to be right there and waiting to help him will result in him screaming out "could someone f***ing get off their a*** and help me"

or/

he is explaining to me about a situation at his workplace. his explanation can be difficult to follow. It is like he is rushing to get all the words out before he forgets. anyhow If I do ask him for clarification he will respond with "f***ing listen. You never listen to me. Are you deaf?"

Seriously my kids and I are at our wits end with this sort of treatment. he says he does not want to be like that and wants a better relationship with his children but doesn't know how to make that happen. when I ask him if his psychologist has given him any ideas, he says he doesn't know. In fact, "I don't know" has always been his standard response to most stuff.

Is this all part of aspergers or something else

Domestic abuse is not a characteristic of AS any more than it is a characteristic of those without AS, and having AS in no way excuses domestic abuse.

Your husband has some serious anger management problems and impulse control issues and as much as you would like to blame his abuse on AS and find a reason to justify his violence, it is not because he has AS and it is never justified.

There are tens of thousands of men with AS who would not treat their spouses or those they love in such a horrible manner.

Your obligation, and your only obligation is to your children. People who are subject to abuse as children often grow up to develop severe, life impacting psychological issues such as borderline personality disorder, drug problems, depression, and other harmful psychological issues. They carry with them emotional scars that don't heal.

You need to get yourself and your children to a safe place.

Thanks. I appreciate your response. He will always justify his abusive behaviour because people (ie: me) have abused him.

I certainly do have my faults and perhaps they have been abusive. perhaps you can give me your opinion on my behaviour.

for example:

18 months ago i got short tempered with him on the phone because he was held up at work. I consequently sulked for most part of the day because of it. and I did not apologise for several weeks.

our children were not getting themselves into bed promptly. he lost his temper and yells to the point of them being frightened. I step in and tell him to back off. he is offended that I have not backed him up. i explain that i do support him in ensuring the kids go to bed when they are asked, but I cannot support over the top behaviour that frightens them. he refuses to believe I am being supportive

several years ago, I was not supportive in my husband spending a day each weekend playing soccer. basically, I asked him to stay home to spend time with me and the kids because he was working a lot of hours. so I felt upset at him not being with us. finances were also very tight at the time. my husband has never forgiven me for not supporting him.

nagging him about things that need to be done around the house and/or expressing any annoyance about him breaking something or getting a speeding fine or something.


Basically, the above are the sort of things that he tells me are abusive and therefore he has become abusive back. Honestly, I think some of the stuff I have done or said has been stupid and/or unsupportive but probably falls within the realms of what happens in many relationships around the country. Incidentally, I have apologised for many things over and over again, but it is never enough for my husband.

When I read this there is so much going on it is hard to compose a reply:

My first thought is that the frustration of AS does result in aggressive behaviour - and that is what comes across very strongly in what you write.
Another thing that comes to my mind is that often in AS people have an incredible memory, so that something that happened months and months ago is still so prominent in their mind it still feels like it happened 5 mins ago. (no amount of apology makes a difference).
Then there is the impulsiveness and lack of tact - poorly chosen words and overuse of swearing - which would be an expression of not getting the social situation right.
.....I'm trying to explain that its perfectly understandable to feel exhausted and a bit exasperated when you get in, longing for some help and comfort, to find everyone is 'busy'.....but that the usual way to express that would be to say something more like "I have such a bad day, can someone please come and help me here"....his awfully hurtful words would be a symptom of not being able to see the other's perspective.

- and so in answer to your question is this AS then, yes most of what you describe could be attributed to it.

BUT - it is usual for aspies to be gentle for the main, not liking confrontation, not liking to hurt people (and feeling very guilty when we do) I'd be expecting the behaviour you describe to be the exception, not the norm. Aspies are more than capable of learning appropriate behaviour.

- and it doesn't mean its ok - especially if it is continual.

I have to say, though, home is often where the worst frustration comes out if he isn't getting the chance for downtime. I know I am guilty of this. And I know sometimes I just have to ask for peace and space to get myself back together - getting this space is absolutely essential to me being able to have a nice time with my family.

I'd be expecting his therapist to be helping him to express "could someone f***ing get off their a*** and help me" in a more acceptable way. I'd be expecting him to show remorse, and be making some kind of active attempt to change - but until he WANTS to be nice, and wants to work through the issues he has, to make for a better relationship, nothing is going to work.

What I read is an Aspie so stressed by life that he's lost his way. Someone in great need of downtime to get things back in perspective.
And also a wife that is very tired of coping, and - sorry if this comes across wrong - but in your own way no longer able to be as supportive as your husband needs. And also in need of downtime.

None of this is YOUR fault!
NOTHING you describe as your "abuse" is close to being a reason to justify what he does. Yes, its normal relationship stuff.
.....but when I read about, for example, the children's bedtime....given that you know of his AS, you *could* handle things better for him.

There is just too much for me to say in one post

Asperger syndrome is not a justification for abusive behavior. If he does have it, it's not his only issue. You need to get out of there. He needs you to do that so he can see his behavior has consequences.

_________________
http://defeatingthedoginthedaytime.blogspot.com/

the trials and tribulations of a girl pretending to be normal

It both is and is not related to Asperger's.

The part that is related is that life on the spectrum can be VERY frustrating. Things that seem obvious to most people can be impossibly confusing to an autistic. Sensory issues can magnify responses to situations. There are a number of issues that can make an autistic person volatile.

The part that isn't related is just as others have already said. Abusive behavior cannot be excused as an artifact of Asperger's. It is possible to learn how to deal with autistic traits without turning into a monster.

There are ways to improve. He needs to want to, first.

No it does NOT. People with AS who are aggressive are aggressive people, period. There are plenty of people with AS who are not aggressive. None of the people I know with AS in person are aggressive and never were. None of them have ever hit, kicked, or shoved anyone, or, when present, have become abusive in any way towards their children our spouses.

People with AS and NT's experience frustrations in life. Some people with AS deal with them in an aggressive manner, some NT's deal with them in an aggressive manner. If there are more people with a diagnosis of AS now who are aggressive, it's usually the same people who would have been diagnosed with ADHD in the 90's, and is due to sloppy diagnostic practices. Hans' Asperger never noted increased aggression in his subjects. He did note a tendency of his subjects to express their frustrations through very articulate and adult sounding letters, however.


This could be true.


This isn't. I'm willing to accept sincere apologies.



Impulsiveness is not a trait of AS, nor is a tendency to swear. I think people with AS are more likely to think before they act, but that is just my opinion molded by the studies I read.



He may not be able to see the other person's perspective but that still doesn't justify his behavior. I've gotten into some heated situations when I've not seen the other person's perspective but the goal was always to find the root of their logic in an attempt to understand their perspective. It never turned into aggression or abusiveness on my part.

And as far as melt downs, I've never implicated others in them.



I disagree with you and suspect your perspective on this matter was not incepted from sound sources, but a by product of sloppy diagnostic standards which has earned difficult, aggressive children a label of AS when in reality, they don't meet the diagnostic criteria.


This I do agree with.



I agree with this as well.

If you are presenting the situation in an accurate, non-biased manner, I don't see how any of your actions are abusive.

Here are a list of things that are not ok and should not be tolerated.

1. Pushing, shoving or otherwise physically assaulting another person unless in direct defense of one's self or another person.

2. Screaming obscenities at a spouse or partner.

3. Screaming at children, obscenities or otherwise.

4. Justifying any of the above actions by blaming them on a "provoker".

Let me re-iterate, your first obligation is to your CHILDREN. Your job is to protect them from people who might abuse them or harm them in some way, physically or emotionally. If there is anything you are responsible for or have done wrong, it's not doing this job, but allowing them to be subjected to an abusive environment for so long.

Perhaps you grew up in a household with a similarly abusive parent which distorted your sense of boundary, self worth, and destroyed your self confidence and ability to determine what you have a right to do and what you don't. You have a right and responsibility to set boundaries to protect yourself and your children. You have a right not to have obscenities scream at you and you have a right and responsibility to not allow yourself to be blamed for the abuse flung at you.

If your husband was honestly interested in changing his ways he would agree to remove himself from the situation and perhaps live elsewhere while he undergoes anger management therapy. But I am willing to bet he will fly off the handle at this suggestion and be extremely opposed to it because he likely does not have the ability to truely accept that he is responsible for his actions and the problem lies within him. And he does not have the ability to accept that he is causing damage to his family. If this is the case, he likely can't change his ways.

Wow - your husband sounds exactly like mine only mine isn't an Aspie - he's bipolar. Bipolar is a common comorbid condition in AS. Perhaps suggest his therapist look into it... treatment for depression and bipolar are literally on opposite ends of the spectrum. Depression meds can make it worse if it is bipolar.

Again, it is not acceptable and the correct medication can stabilize his moods if it is bipolar. Even if bipolars have little to no control over their outbursts they still need to try. It may be helpful to ask his doctors for recommendations for a couples councelor familiar with these particualr challenges in a relationship - that is, if he is interested in saving the relationship. It is simply unacceptable to be so abusive to your family.

I am being misquoted here - but the emphasis I put on my reply was not good:

The point I try to make is that the aforementioned COULD be simply AS with nothing else going on, except for overload, lack of help and appropriate treatment.




No - my perspective is as a person - an adult - properly, carefully and reasonably diagnosed as AS - and also as an adult who having been put into highly inappropriate situations, sadly have to admit have behaved very badly. I do not meet criteria for ADHD, Bipolar or other suggestions. I have also been potentially diagnosed with co-morbid, AS related, PTSD however which perhaps colours my experience.



I can be very aggressive - yes I agree, aggression is personality based and not related to the spectrum. In other words it is a sliding scale for both AS and NT. Hans Asperger may not have noted aggression in his patients, but it is certainly not valid to say that aggression in not possible in AS.

And, the sorts of things that make me aggressive are AS related. For example (sad to say) I assaulted a policeman who tried to take one of my coping mechanisms off me (my phone). The policeman himself apologied for this incident afterwards! And I followed suit - as I could readily see why he had not realised what he did was so inappropriate, when he didn't know me.

I do however agree that I am still more likely to take a long walk, go for a run, and/or hit out at an inanimate object - or yes, write a long and thought out letter - I have never lost the presence of mind to damage or hurt anything that would have a lasting consequence unless trapped (eg the policeman mentioned above, and on one other occasion a nurse who tried to restrain me). In this respect, I feel, aggression in an aspie may have an less than typical or obvious cause - and I am the sort of person that simply doesn't like to see inherent bad in anyone.




hmmmm....well I would happily accept most apologies too.....but there are times when "sorry" just won't ever cut it. I make no judgement with regard to the OP. As I said, I can't make my point in such a short space.





Thank you - I was not trying to justify the behaviour in the OP.
Only offering the suggestion that it was not necessary to look for "something else" in answer to the OP.

I want to explain I will be forever indebted to my family for sticking by me when "traditional" anger management strategies did more harm than good. It was only once therapy was tuned to AS that anything helped me.

I am not justifying bad behaviour!

I completely agree with everyone Argentina, that you have to look after yourself.
I also reiterate that nothing can change without your husband making a consistent, concerted and very mindful decision to succeed - and you can only support him if he wants to be supported - I always wanted to change.

I also reiterate that you are not the cause of any "abuse" and not to blame for anything Argentina.

I read undertones of you wanting to carry on supporting him.....
Its been 6 months since he started getting AS related help. Has it made any difference?
Do you think the psychologist is someone that could ultimately help?
Have you read up on AS, and found anything that you think would make a difference?
Is he willing to put in the effort to change?

.....if NO, then I agree with everyone else.....

Surely that is a bl**dy good reason for him to LEARN from his situation and break the cycle! Does he want his kids to be abusive to their future partners, and his grandkids...?

It really sounds to me like you need to get out of there. Never let anyone make an excuse (even if they call it justified!) for domestic violence!

*hugs*

In answer to the many thoughtful questions and comments people have posted her.

My husband and I have separated twice before. We have got back together, things are good for a while (few months, maybe longer) and then things have gone downhill again.

The therapy he has been receiving so far has focussed on his abilities and job. He lost his job earlier this year and is re-training. The therapist considers it important for his mental health that he keeps in the workforce. So, consequently I am the main income earner. I have not "got out" because this is our family home, I am paying for it and why should he live in the family home whilst the children and I live in a cramped accommodation?
Not to mention I derive a portion of my income from an at-home business and we have a myriad of animals to look after.

at the moment I am talking to my husband about him living elsewhere, however, this is going to be difficult because he has no friends or family to stay with and only a basic income. My children do receive counselling and spend a reasonable amount of time with extended family. They are fully aware that their father is "not well" and that this is not acceptable behaviour.

My husband is incredibly dependent on asking me for advice, and helping him to do things. Living on his own will be fine, but getting set-up initially is difficult for him as he will get too stressed by the range of things that have to be done. My husband has been suicidal on a number of occasions which have eventuated in hospital visit and police attendance. I feel like I am walking a very fine line. Trying to protect myself and the kids, but also trying to make sure my husband is looked after as well.

I don't know why I feel compelled to keep writing - but I think it is because I recognise myself in a lot of what you write about your husband. Not least the comment about being very dependant, and asking for advice on everything. (I do however know how draining this is for my partner, who didn't sign up to be life-coach, counsellor, and mind-reader)

I know myself that the dependency is an anomaly, because whilst someone is making decisions for me I feel disempowered and frustrated. I find life harder - I ask for more help - and yet direct help is not really the best thing for me. What I need is actually encouragement to find my own way, confidence to start to make my own decisions, and the ability to trust my own instincts.

I would happily provide some ideas to try with regard to specific things that are flash-points - assuming that I am right in recognising similar patterns in your husband - and assuming you want it!

If he is open to the idea of moving out, and finance allows, I think it would help giving both of you time to get things back into perspective. If he can stay close, and you are willing to continue to support him, it would be ideal for you to help him move from being so highly dependant on you by degrees. Your hanging in there for a while whilst he rebuilds a life for himself would probably help - Finances are always the biggest constraint to this solution though, I know but I've seriously looked into renting a studio or bedsit, and it would have worked for me. If getting him out isn't financially viable, perhaps I can give you some ideas for achieving the same without him physically leaving?

Argentina, you sound like a wonderfully caring wife - and my heart goes out to you.

Do YOU have any support, someone to care you, for your feelings and worries? if not, prioritise getting yourself a support network.

You mean you mis-spoke. The quote was your words exactly. Point taken though.


Simply because it's a characteristic you alone, manifest, or even some people manifest, does not mean it's a characteristic of AS. It's likely a characteristic of you regardless of AS. If it were a characteristic of AS it would have been noted by Hans Asperger or in older literature on AS, but it isn't. It's too prevalent in the general population and those with things other than AS.



I did not mean to imply it was not possible. It's just not trait that is part of or specific to the disorder.



This wouldn't be any different than an individual with a respiratory disorder assaulting a policeman for trying to take their oxygen away. Or a photographer assaulting a policeman...or at least struggling with them, for trying to take their camera away when the policeman doesn't have the right to. Everyone has their triggers.



If the person is sincerely sorry for the right reasons - because they actually feel bad for what they did and realized they were wrong and how much they hurt you, rather than just saying they are sorry because they don't want to hassle with you, or because they want something from you, then what more do you want of them that they can possibly give you?

As mortal beings, humans are sometimes in the position of being able to take more than they can give, or having the ability to do, but not undo. In these situations, sometimes an apology is all a person has the power to give you....or you to give other people when you are the one who has committed the wrong.