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CockneyRebel
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05 Jan 2012, 8:32 pm

Blasty wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Blasty wrote:
Having AS doesn't make me "disabled." Those who would have denied me a chance at life are some of the lowest human scum. Anyone who I offended just now deserves it; I will not apologize.


Ohhh, ''disabled'' is just a quicker way of saying ''somebody born with neurological difference'' or something. Don't take the word ''disabled'' personally.


I'm not so much offended over that as I am that you think its acceptable to deny someone a chance at life just because the "disability" might make their childhood not so great. Even worse, it sounds like you're thinking more about how it would affect you; it sounds like you'd feel like an outcast around people who have normal kids, or would be disappointed that you couldn't vicariously replace your own childhood with theirs. These are all terrible reasons to pre-emptively kill an autistic. I didn't have many friends, didn't go to birthday parties, didn't fit in at school, etc. But that is a very brief and temporary part of one's life. I'm glad I was given a chance.


I feel the same way. I'm glad that my mum gave me life instead of aborting me. If you're going to have children, you should be able to accept any type of child that is given to you. The reason that disabled babies are aborted is because the mother doesn't care about the baby. The mother only cares about the perfect life and her own social status. Abortion stops a beating heart. I'm happy that my mum gave me life and gave me a chance. I feel that every baby should be given a chance, whether they have any type of disability or not. You should let your child be and not try to live your dreams through your child. I'd rather be alive and autistic, than an abortion statistic. Those little 2 month old fetuses actually do feel pain as they're being aborted.


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HazelEye
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05 Jan 2012, 8:40 pm

I'd abort a disabled baby. I don't even know if I could raise a normal kid right, I'm sure you guys would agree the kid would be better off not existing than having someone like me as their mom.



BafflinBook
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06 Jan 2012, 6:50 am

Would do the same ifyou have to make this decidsion??

would you opt for abortion if you find out that your baby will be LFA??



Ganondox
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06 Jan 2012, 10:27 am

HazelEye wrote:
I'd abort a disabled baby. I don't even know if I could raise a normal kid right, I'm sure you guys would agree the kid would be better off not existing than having someone like me as their mom.


Disagree.

What happened to adoption? With adoption there is the emotional trauma of having to leave the baby, while with an abortion you just stick in a tube, suck it out, then it's done. What happened responsibilty for ones actions?

Regarding abortions stopping a besting heart, the heart is the first organ to develop in the fetus, it develops before the brain.


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06 Jan 2012, 11:08 am

Ganondox wrote:
HazelEye wrote:
I'd abort a disabled baby. I don't even know if I could raise a normal kid right, I'm sure you guys would agree the kid would be better off not existing than having someone like me as their mom.


Disagree.

What happened to adoption? With adoption there is the emotional trauma of having to leave the baby, while with an abortion you just stick in a tube, suck it out, then it's done. What happened responsibilty for ones actions?

Regarding abortions stopping a besting heart, the heart is the first organ to develop in the fetus, it develops before the brain.


None of that logically matters beause the baby is growing inside the mother! It's her body!

I completely agree with the philosophical arguments against abortion, but the logical ones say that I can kick anybody out of my body at anytime that I want.

I would not have an abortion. Phisophically and theologically I am against abortion. But logically I am not.

I think people should vote logically. Otherwise you end up with a theocracy. Of any religion.


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League_Girl
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06 Jan 2012, 2:35 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
Blasty wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Blasty wrote:
Having AS doesn't make me "disabled." Those who would have denied me a chance at life are some of the lowest human scum. Anyone who I offended just now deserves it; I will not apologize.


Ohhh, ''disabled'' is just a quicker way of saying ''somebody born with neurological difference'' or something. Don't take the word ''disabled'' personally.


I'm not so much offended over that as I am that you think its acceptable to deny someone a chance at life just because the "disability" might make their childhood not so great. Even worse, it sounds like you're thinking more about how it would affect you; it sounds like you'd feel like an outcast around people who have normal kids, or would be disappointed that you couldn't vicariously replace your own childhood with theirs. These are all terrible reasons to pre-emptively kill an autistic. I didn't have many friends, didn't go to birthday parties, didn't fit in at school, etc. But that is a very brief and temporary part of one's life. I'm glad I was given a chance.


I feel the same way. I'm glad that my mum gave me life instead of aborting me. If you're going to have children, you should be able to accept any type of child that is given to you. The reason that disabled babies are aborted is because the mother doesn't care about the baby. The mother only cares about the perfect life and her own social status. Abortion stops a beating heart. I'm happy that my mum gave me life and gave me a chance. I feel that every baby should be given a chance, whether they have any type of disability or not. You should let your child be and not try to live your dreams through your child. I'd rather be alive and autistic, than an abortion statistic. Those little 2 month old fetuses actually do feel pain as they're being aborted.



Actually a two month fetus is eight weeks and the fetus doesn't start to feel pain until they are around 20 weeks and that is about five months.



Thedarkpoet
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06 Jan 2012, 2:50 pm

Wow heartless neurotypical...... :evil:



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06 Jan 2012, 2:54 pm

I wouldn't want to get rid of any unborn baby simply because of the way it will be. I don't know much about the stages of development in a fetus but from what I know I'd say it is within a mother's right to have it aborted (before a certain stage). Although I currently agree with stem cell research due to it's amazing capacity to help people.


The only one of these things I disagree with is screening. Checking if your unborn baby is autistic / disabled etc. This would mean so many babies would never be born because they didn't support with society's views.

There would be no Stephen Hawkins, Probably no Einstein, No Newton, In fact: no one on the autistic spectrum.


Now this world might be nice and social and everyone having a good time, but how long would it last, and would it really go forward?


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CockneyRebel
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06 Jan 2012, 4:06 pm

HazelEye wrote:
I'd abort a disabled baby. I don't even know if I could raise a normal kid right, I'm sure you guys would agree the kid would be better off not existing than having someone like me as their mom.


There's always adoption. There are a lot of people who would be happy to adopt any child. I disagree with the abortion of any child by any mother, whether the child has a disability or not. Every human life is precious from conception until natural death. Abortion is murder, plain and simple.


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CockneyRebel
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06 Jan 2012, 4:08 pm

I guess that nobody respects life, anymore.


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06 Jan 2012, 4:49 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I guess that nobody respects life, anymore.


They do, they just disagree about when personhood begins.


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HazelEye
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06 Jan 2012, 4:56 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
HazelEye wrote:
I'd abort a disabled baby. I don't even know if I could raise a normal kid right, I'm sure you guys would agree the kid would be better off not existing than having someone like me as their mom.


There's always adoption. There are a lot of people who would be happy to adopt any child. I disagree with the abortion of any child by any mother, whether the child has a disability or not. Every human life is precious from conception until natural . Abortion is , plain and simple.


Question: How many of the kids actually get adopted my loving families? Until you have proof that said kid will not end up shuffling between horrible foster families you can't really suggest an alternate option.



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06 Jan 2012, 5:22 pm

I actually learned that a child doesn't always get adopted. Sure lot of people want babies but not everyone wants to adopt and not everyone wants children or more kids. There are lot of unwanted kids in the world so they end up going from foster care to foster care and growing up in orphanages in other countries and institutions where they get abused and neglected. It messes them up and I hear most of them end up in prisons when they are adults. People can even back out of the adoption at the last minute after your baby is born. People can back out of it too during your pregnancy and then you have to find a new couple who would adopt your baby and what if you don't find the right people in time? Also leaving your baby at the hospital for the hospital to hand over to the state, it is not guaranteed the kid will be adopted. So that is why I believe in abortions. If no one had them, then there be a lot more unwanted kids in the world.



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06 Jan 2012, 5:47 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I guess that nobody respects life, anymore.


They do, they just disagree about when personhood begins.
Yeah, pretty much. The pro-choice people and the pro-life people have that in common--both groups are fighting for human rights; the pro-life people just have a definition of "human" that starts earlier, so if you're pro-life, then you see two peoples' rights to protect, rather than just one; and if you're pro-choice, then you see only one person. But both groups believe in the rights of a human being.

Personally, I'd go for separate genetic identity as a definition of personhood; or else a little later, to allow for twins. But just being dependent on someone else for your life doesn't seem like it ought to be relevant for the purposes of deciding whether someone is a person. It's extremely relevant for other purposes--after all, pregnancy is a very odd sort of condition in which one person is the only person who can ensure the survival of another person. And so you have two people's rights to juggle; and the woman's rights are just as important as the fetus's; and there are no easy answers.

In a way, the pro-choice idea is extremely simplistic: Just declare one of the two people to be not human yet, and the answer becomes quite black-and-white. Pro-life... well, that's more shades-of-gray, without any easy answers; and you have to face the fact that there are no perfect solutions.


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06 Jan 2012, 5:51 pm

Abortion is a brilliant thing. Since abortion was legalised in America, violent crime has dropped dramatically. The women most likely to abort their babies are young, poor, uneducated, or a combination of those. They were previously the parents most likely to raise violent criminals. I think the stigma around abortion needs to be lifted further, if anything, and it should be freely availible everywhere, though people should use contraception where possible.

Personally, I think I'd rather any future partner I have aborted any children we accidentally conceive than force a child to grow up and go through all the horrible stuff that every human has to go through at present. If I met my pregnant mother I'd advise her to abort me.



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06 Jan 2012, 5:58 pm

I guess it's better to have an abortion than being on welfare or foodstamps or WIC or childcare assistance taking money from peoples taxes. It save the state money. Lot of childfree b***h about "breeders" having kids they can't afford and "breeders" not getting fixed. Even some none childfree people feel the same way, they don't like people having kids while on welfare. It's another one of those Murphy laws when it comes to making choices about rather to abort or have the baby. Either way is "wrong."