Is Aspergers a mental illness?

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26 Jan 2012, 10:09 am

Jono, you're approaching this backwards. the way you are looking at the question is like a non-scientist searching out information about tomatoes, and after finding only savoury recipes, mistakenly concluding that it is a vegetable and not a fruit.

maybe it would be helpful to you if you seached WHO's essay on the definition of health (as i had suggested), and you may also want to have a look at this philosophical discussion of the definition of mental illness:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mental-illness/

autism is mentioned in the paper, and the only controversy that they mention surrounding the consideration of autism as a mental illness is this:

Quote:

For both autism and schizophrenia, it has been suggested that these are not unitary conditions but rather collections of quite difference disorders lumped together in one category.

there is no mention there that autism should not be considered a mental illness, and in fact it neatly fits into the definitions provided.

the label of "mental illness" is stigmatising and can adversely affect a person's progress, so it stands to reason that clinicians who are trying to help people with ASDs would be reluctant to apply that label. but if you search for scholarly articles, you will see that ASD is commonly referred to as a mental illness in the literature. for example, in this article that speaks of the social stigma of mental illness, autism is specifically listed:

http://web.ebscohost.com/ehost/pdfviewe ... d=2&hid=12

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Phonic
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26 Jan 2012, 3:58 pm

I believe Jono and Arnolds..something does not want autism to be a mental illness because it's a stigmatizing lable, and if there's wiggle room to claim that it is a "disability" or "disorder" instead of an "illness" then they'll take that room and go with it is far as they can, nevermind the silly idea that a "disorder" is a seperate concept from "illness" or that "mental illness" must only apply to psychotic or severe disorders.

But me? I'm mentally ill, sometimes madly so, when people say "yeah I'm a little crazy" to mean they're quirky, I say no, I was crazy, shut your gob, and everytime I see someone trying desperatly to not let their pet disorder come near the words "mentally ill" I feel stigma.

I might be taking it a step far but there are people here who have said that they diagnosed with ASD professionally and live happy disability free lives and that they're ASD has mostly brought them benefits, to which I often wonder: Why hasn't your diagnosis been removed? The same goes to all those "I'm really mild" sorts, if you're "really mild" then I don't see how you're disabled, and if you're not disabled then you don't have ze disorder.

But I'm willing to make allowences to these people if they were to tell me that things are only going to so well because they stay within a comfort zone and they are limited, they just don't care about going outside their small bounderies.

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CrazyCatLord
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26 Jan 2012, 8:04 pm

OddDuckNash99 wrote:

ASDs ARE a type of psychiatric disorder, everyone. If they didn't have a psychiatric component, they wouldn't be in the DSM. We need to get rid of the term "mental illness." We need to start using "neuropsychiatric disorder." This will help reduce stigma against all DSM disorders. Schizophrenia is caused by brain abnormalities just like ASDs. And the brain abnormalities in schizophrenia are genetic, too, and start in the womb, making them neurodevelopmental disorders just like with ASDs.

It irks me how so many people with ASDs get angry about classifing ASDs as any sort of a psychiatric disorder. Our behaviors ARE abnormal to the rest of the world, and people who don't know anything about ASDs will think we're "crazy" when they view us having a meltdown or such. Plus, so many with ASDs also have a comorbid "mental illness," making them "crazy" anyway. I have OCD in addition to Asperger's, so I'm "mentally ill" regardless of how you want to label the Asperger's. Just something to think about.

The fact that a condition or trait is listed in the DSM doesn't turn it into a mental illness, imho. Neither does the fact that a trait is statistically abnormal. The DSM-IV still lists "transvestic fetishism" (crossdressing) as a mental disorder. Women in pants are perfectly sane, but men in dresses are crazy :roll:

Other supposed disorders include fetishism in general (such as rubber fetishism), sadism and masochism (there are lots of happy D/s and SM couples out there who lead a normal family life outside the bedroom / dungeon), and gerontophilia, a sexual attraction to consenting adults who happen to be elderly and might be delighted about the prospect of a young lover. Classifying this sexual orientation as a disorder is blatant ageism. It tells senior citizens "a younger person must be crazy to fall in love with a relic like you".

Earlier versions of the DSM also listed homosexuality as a mental illness, which says all you need to know about mindset behind the DSM and the concept of mental illness. Of course homosexuality is not a mental disorder. But the supposed experts that wrote the DSM-I and II were nonetheless consistent in their approach, because everything you wrote about AS and schizophrenia in your first paragraph also applies in this case. Homosexuality is a developmental deviation from the statistical norm with a genetic component that causes the brain to develop differently (for example, there are size differences in the suprachiasmatic nucleus and the anterior commissure). Strictly biologically speaking, this is unusual brain development, which is also the cause of AS.

Homosexual behavior is also still being decried as abnormal by large parts of society, although this is luckily in the process of changing. It is an excruciatingly slow change though. Gays and lesbians still have a hard time being accepted by the neurotypical population, are often bullied as teenagers, run into problems in the workplace, and often suffer from depression as a result. But they don't have an illness or a disorder. It is society that has an irrational problem with their existence and in turn causes their problems. The exact same thing could be said about higher functioning autists.

I see AS as a differentness that often comes with certain disabilities and problems, many of which are forced onto us by an uncomprehending, unaccepting, un-accommodating, and often outright abusive mainstream / NT culture. It is not an illness for the same reason that homosexuality is not an illness. An illness is something that can be cured or at least treated. Moreover, it is something that the patient wants to be cured of. Personally, I'd love to be cured from my AS, but there are aspies with unique talents who are proud of their differentness. But even if we all wanted to be "normal", it's just not an option. We are here, we are neuro-queer, so better get used to us. The stigma-laden and derogatory illness / disorder label has to go.

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26 Jan 2012, 8:15 pm

Phonic wrote:

I understand where you're coming from. I certainly am crazy and mentally ill now, but that wasn't always the case. When I grew up, I was merely different.

Sure, I never managed to drive a car, to read the time off an analog clock in under 30 seconds, to make eye contact when people were talking to me, or to be a hyper-social party animal. But I finished school, made an apprenticeship and held down two jobs over the course of 12 years. I wasn't mentally ill and disabled until constant peer abuse, ridicule and pressure to conform literally drove me crazy.

My point is that it's not me who needs to be cured. I can't be cured. Society has to accept me the way I am and stop treating me like an idiot or a weirdo or a dangerous animal. But the convenient mental illness label stands in the way of societal change for the better (such as laws against bullying, for example, which would not only save the lives and mental health of aspies but of countless other people too). This label implies that we are merely sick, it's genetic, it's in no way society's fault, no matter how much they abuse us.

That's why I'm against this label, even though I call myself crazy. I wouldn't be crazy if I had been treated like a human being instead of a crazy person.

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27 Jan 2012, 5:10 pm

It's considered one to the medical definition of it. But I don't see it as such.

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27 Jan 2012, 5:36 pm

Quote:

I might be taking it a step far but there are people here who have said that they diagnosed with ASD professionally and live happy disability free lives and that they're ASD has mostly brought them benefits, to which I often wonder: Why hasn't your diagnosis been removed? The same goes to all those "I'm really mild" sorts, if you're "really mild" then I don't see how you're disabled, and if you're not disabled then you don't have ze disorder.

Why do people keep assuming mild means no problems, have no impairments? If they had none of that, they wouldn't be mild, it would just mean they don't have it at all, period. But it's not black and white because what about people who are Bipolar or a schizophrenic, not all of them are disabled by it. Some of them have it under control through medication and they can live their normal lives and function like normal people. They still have the disorder nonetheless because they have to stay functional by taking their medication everyday. They may still have episodes every now and then, especially if they forget to take their medicine or ran out and couldn't get more. I would still consider them mild. They shouldn't not get treatment just because they are mild so they can function.

It be like saying if someone has mild cancer, then they are not sick and don't have it. Well even patients with mild cancer still need treatment.
Sometimes it's so mild, doctors don't notice it until it gets worse. That was the case with my mother and I would say hers was mild but she still got treatment for it before it got so bad. Right when her doctors found out about it, it was just starting and getting worse. Now she looks back and realized she had always been sick and just thought she was so tired because she had been working so hard. That's what the doctors would have told her too if she went in to complain about it. They would have told her she had been working too hard so her body has been exhausted and also because she is getting older so she has less energy. That's how mild her cancer was then. But it still should have gotten treated then too if they did find out then than ignoring it because it was mild.

Or what about people with mild learning disabilities, should they not get work accommodations or have an IEP or a 504 plan because they are so mild? If they struggle in school, it's their fault. They just need to try harder and if they fail, they were just too lazy and didn't try hard enough.

Maybe everyone should stop claiming to be mild and just say they are moderate just so people won't assume they have no problems and expect more out of them and act like their problems are their fault :roll:

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27 Jan 2012, 6:34 pm

IF you want to know if it fits medical definitions of mental illness, yes, it is. (http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictio ... al+illness)

BUT, and this is a very big "but," the term "mental illness" comes with very negative connotations that are not accurate in relation specifically to Asperger Syndrome.

Unfortunately connotations associated with words are subjective. There is an online project that isn't to the point of being "up and running" yet that is attempting to tackle this issue by using input from users much the same way that Wikipedia works, collecting connotations submitted by many users into a massive database. I can't wait until it comes online, but I'm not holding my breath. http://www.connotative.com/EmoDict.htm

It seems clear to me though based on the many, MANY threads started right here on WP, that the vast majority of Aspies here feel that the connotations associated with the term "mental illness" are negative and inaccurate enough to reject the use of the term in describing Asperger Syndrome. We are not sick people. Nor do most of us feel we need to be "cured."

With that in mind, I reject popular usage of the term "mental illness" to describe AS, but accept the STRICT medical definition of the term.

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28 Jan 2012, 12:29 am

What ever aspurgers is, it's not a "mental illness" illnesses can be cured and if there even WAS a way to make me "normal" there's no way in HELL I'd go for it. Illnesses are bad, and, sure it kills our social abilities, but don't we make up for that in other ways such as brain power, and work ethic? When I was first diagnosed, I didn't know what aspurgers was. I thought there was something wrong with me. After reaserching it, I've come to think of it as a gift with a price. Sure I'm bullied and considered crazy, BUT I have really good grades, I've been highly recommend for art scholarships and programs, and, recently I've found I'm really good at crew (rowing sport in really long cannoeish boats) cuz ya know, repetitive motions. If you look at the good sides, it really is just a difference.

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28 Jan 2012, 1:29 am

I've always split the morphological hair with exhibiting an acquired lack in rational understanding that shows pathology.

Mental illness has an onset, and is somewhat treatable, similar to a diabetic on insulin.

Depression falls into this. ADHD would if it onset- ed........ Meds do work, somewhat.

I'd have a difficult time labeling a permanent head trauma patient, and as such showing executive dysfunction, as "mentally ill," even with the tantrums.

But I suppose by looking at illness as any aberrant behavior, you could say that Nazi Germany was mentally ill, albeit by 'software'.

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22 Feb 2012, 11:29 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:

Phonic wrote:

I agree with everything CrazyCatLord said above. I would've been a much healthier adult if my childhood wasn't as difficult as it was. If I'd been diagnosed and helped when I was younger and had learned how to cope with it back then I wouldn't have suffered as much mentally. I'd be a very different person and in the right environment I might have been able to be a more successful adult who wouldn't feel they even have a disability. My little sister has had very early intervention and she's doing far better than I ever did. Who knows maybe it wont impact her in adulthood the same way it did me. She's a very happy child, who has more friends than I ever did, even though she's still a little different. I was depressed as a kid and didn't even know how to play with my classmates.

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23 Feb 2012, 6:21 am

I'm with Phonic on this one. I find it incredibly confusing when people say things like, "I have Asperger's but it doesn't effect me in any way". Uh ... what? Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron?

By definition, the symptoms of ASD must interfere with your life or cause you distress. If they do neither of these things, they do not justify a diagnosis: self-diagnosis or otherwise. Nobody's saying that you can't have traits of autism without being disabled by them (broader autism phenotype, anyone?), but in order to be diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder those traits have to be clinically significant.

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23 Feb 2012, 7:13 am

Hmm, I actually wrote a blog post on this one. might be interesting to some of you guys.

http://chaoticidealism.livejournal.com/42104.html

Quote:

Is Asperger Syndrome a mental illness?

That depends on how you define "mental illness". If you define it as "something in the DSM-IV, treated by a psychologist, with primarily mental symptoms", then yes, it's a mental illness. But consider: Under this definition, many other things are mental illnesses: Mental retardation, learning disabilities like dyslexia, ADHD, speech impediments, Alzheimer's. Putting autism in that group makes sense--even if "mental illness" has connotations that those things don't have.

On the other hand, let's define mental illness as "a condition with emotional, behavioral, and sometimes psychotic symptoms, treated by a psychologist, which causes distress and impairs function." Under that definition, none of the above (including autism) qualify. This is the more commonly used definition of mental illness...

You know, reading the above paragraph, I realize I have trouble properly explaining the average-person idea of "mental illness"; my definitions don't really seem to draw a mental line between the two groups. All I really have is a large list of examples which people would consider to be "mental illness" and I have trouble properly drawing out the common characteristics.

So maybe it would be better to just make a list of what most people would consider to be "mental illness".

Various anxiety disorders: Panic attacks, GAD, OCD
Schizophrenia and other conditions that involve psychosis
Depression and related conditions
Bipolar disorder and related conditions
Hypochondria and other psychological conditions with physical symptoms ("It's all in your head")
Dissociative identity disorder (multiple personalities)
Eating disorders

I went through literally all of the DSM-IV categories to pick those out. (Wikipedia rocks, incidentally.) They made up barely a quarter of the available diagnoses. Also note that the previous list includes mostly very severe psychological disorders--the "flashy" kind they put on TV a lot--and the ones you're most likely to be hospitalized for. I actually had to debate whether to put hypochondriasis on that list, because most people wouldn't immediately associate it with "mental illness" so much as "making a fool out of yourself".

"But," some say, "Asperger's isn't a disability. If it isn't a disability, it can't be a mental illness." Hate to burst your bubble, but yes, Asperger's is a disability. That there are positive aspects to AS doesn't change that we lack some skills the world expects of us. By the social model, we are disabled, just like deaf people and wheelchair users who, just like us, simply need the right environment. Social model: A deaf person in a hearing world is quite disabled; a deaf person in a signing world is not disabled. An Aspie in a world where people use lots of vague communication is disabled; in a world where people say what they mean (and where special interests are OK and people don't create overwhelming sensory situations), he's not disabled. But of course, the social model of disability is quite another issue altogether.

The "Asperger's is not a mental illness" protest, I think, stems from this popular concept of mental illness as something that makes you "go crazy" and get put in the looney bin. This is an unfortunate state of affairs because, technically, in the medical sense, AS is a mental illness; but in the colloquial sense of the term, it's far from it.

How to explain Asperger's? Describe it as neurological--"My brain works differently". This should evoke the right connotations in the listener's mind.

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23 Feb 2012, 1:29 pm

I am relatively neutral on this position. Given all the issues I have had because of my autism I don't take offense to it being called a mental illness. At any rate, autism seems to always come with loads of other issues that ARE mental illness-- OCD, bipolar, etc. But so far as autism itself, I see it more as a difference, which I think is the position of most people on here.

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Matt62
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23 Feb 2012, 1:45 pm

To be absolutely accurate, a mental illness is a disorder that does NOT have a physical cause. OCD, hysteria, personality disorders might make it. autism & schizophrenia are both eliminated under this definition, as both have biological causes. In reality, you cannot seperate the mind from the brain, so we are included.
"Angels to some, demons to others. It all depends on your point of view!" :lol:

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I don't see even mental illness waranting the stigma it gets, depression being near the top in causing lost work days etc. Unless your a rapist/child molestor/serial killer that is.

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23 Feb 2012, 4:16 pm

All mental illness is physical... Some starts out as environmental, some as emotional or cognitive, some as genetic and some with injury or illness; but once you can diagnose it, there are physical differences present in the brain, whether in the way the neurons are working, in the way the neurotransmitters are getting produced and used, or in the physical structure of the brain itself.

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23 Feb 2012, 4:34 pm

Ai_Ling wrote:

That's what my psych said.

No, it's a developmental disorder.

A mental illness describes a normal brain that isn't functioning right, while a developmental disorder describes a brain that is wired differently, but is usually healthy. [EDIT: See Callista's post for a better description]

A mental illness can be cured most of the time, Autism can't be cured, only improved.

There are lots of differences.

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