Aspergers/Autism the next step in evolution.

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is Aspergers/Autism the next step in human evolution?
Yes 25%  25%  [ 12 ]
No 50%  50%  [ 24 ]
Maybe 21%  21%  [ 10 ]
I dont know 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 48

Thedarkpoet
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29 Jan 2012, 4:12 pm

???



Last edited by Thedarkpoet on 29 Jan 2012, 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tuttle
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29 Jan 2012, 4:15 pm

Evolution doesn't work like that.



layla87
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23 Feb 2012, 3:06 pm

Could be, as well as a species evolving physically, perhaps it evolves mentally as well.

Although while I think maybe HFA and Asperger's may be evolutionary, I'm not sure low functioning autism is



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23 Feb 2012, 3:07 pm

If this thread rolls. I'm going to be avidly lurking...Bwaaha. 8)



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23 Feb 2012, 3:45 pm

Are there "next steps of evolution" anyway? Sometimes I do wonder what most people imagine about how "evolution" works like.


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Callista
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23 Feb 2012, 3:52 pm

Ugh, not this crap again! No, it isn't. Evolution doesn't even HAVE steps. Natural selection isn't "survival of the best"; it's "survival of those who are adapted to their environment". And evolution isn't a ladder with one life-form above the other; it's a matter of life branching out, adapting to new environments.

The effect of natural selection is to weed out the genes of those who don't fit into the place where they find themselves. What an organism is depends on where its ancestors lived. For humans, the prevailing theory is that we lived in a place where there was a lot of chaos, a lot of climate change; and we had to learn to adapt faster than genetic change would let us adapt. So, the people who survived were the most flexible, the most capable of thinking and learning when things changed. Thus, bigger brains, longer childhoods, and eventually homo sapiens. Evolution doesn't select for bigger brains or smarter people; it's more of a matter of whoever happens to be left standing. In this case, it was the flexible, adaptable people who survived.

We're not hominids living in a variable climate anymore; we're humans living in a global society. That's a totally different environment, and it's not really apparent which traits will be useful even fifty years in the future, let alone five million. Where we'll branch out from here, how our descendents will change, is anybody's guess. The most likely scenario is that we will have multiple species as descendents, and each one will be adapted to a different sort of environment. And, even beyond that, remember that humans don't live in isolation. Societies compete against each other, too, and successful societies absorb or crowd out less successful ones. We have not just a natural selection of genes, but a natural selection of ideas.

Autism is part of human diversity, and, as such, makes the human race as a whole a stronger species. But it's diversity that's important. It means that, whatever problems humans face in the future, we will have just one more way of addressing them.

If you want to make an evolutionary argument about autism, leave out the "next step" garbage and talk about the value of genetic and social diversity--the way we need all kinds of people to make up our world, and "all kinds" includes autistic ones.


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Last edited by Callista on 23 Feb 2012, 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Invader
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23 Feb 2012, 4:03 pm

Tuttle wrote:
Evolution doesn't work like that.


You have no way of proving that. Evolution itself is still only theoretical.

Also, natural selection is still only one of several different theories of evolution.



Callista
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23 Feb 2012, 4:06 pm

Invader wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
Evolution doesn't work like that.


You have no way of proving that. Evolution itself is still only theoretical.
The theory itself doesn't work like that. It's not a matter of "survival of the best", it's a matter of "survival of whatever poor schmoe is left standing". If you reproduce, or if you make it easier for genetically-related people or people in your society to reproduce, you win the genetic lottery and your genes get passed on.

You might quibble about the large-scale evolution, but natural selection is observable and has been shown to work over and over again...


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23 Feb 2012, 4:08 pm

I added another line when I saw your post, before you replied to me.

Also, "survival of the fittest" being observable does nothing to prove that evolution cannot move in "steps", nor does it prove that we are purely the result of the process of natural selection, all it proves is that those most suited to survive do survive, don't try to stretch that to mean more than it does.



Last edited by Invader on 23 Feb 2012, 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Callista
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23 Feb 2012, 4:12 pm

So did I. :P I've got to stop posting things before I'm done typing them!

Anyway, yeah: Natural selection--observable, testable law of biology. There could be other evolutionary mechanisms, but we know for sure that natural selection is one of them.


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Invader
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23 Feb 2012, 4:13 pm

And I just did it again.



Tuttle
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23 Feb 2012, 4:22 pm

You should probably note that the OP edited their post, removing part what I was responding to from it.

The OP originally claimed 'survival of the best' rather than 'survival of the fittest', and I didn't feel like going through and giving a longer, better written response like Callista eventually did. (It's just that my response was the only one before the edit).



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23 Feb 2012, 4:33 pm

I can see why you would make that distinction.

And there seems to be a mutual understanding with that other stuff.



MakaylaTheAspie
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23 Feb 2012, 4:38 pm

Evolution: survival of the fittest

The basic process of evolution takes quite a long time, and traits slowly start to show up more and more as others are eliminated.

As far as I can tell, people with or without Autism can prosper.


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23 Feb 2012, 4:51 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest

Wikipedia wrote:
"Survival of the fittest" is a phrase originating in evolutionary theory, as an alternative description of Natural selection. The phrase is today commonly used in contexts that are incompatible with the original meaning as intended by its first two proponents: British polymath philosopher Herbert Spencer (who coined the term) and Charles Darwin.

Herbert Spencer first used the phrase – after reading Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species – in his Principles of Biology (1864), in which he drew parallels between his own economic theories and Darwin's biological ones, writing, "This survival of the fittest, which I have here sought to express in mechanical terms, is that which Mr. Darwin has called 'natural selection', or the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life."[1]

Darwin first used Spencer's new phrase "survival of the fittest" as a synonym for natural selection in the fifth edition of On the Origin of Species, published in 1869.[2][3] Darwin meant it as a metaphor for "better adapted for immediate, local environment", not the common inference of "in the best physical shape".[4] Hence, it is not a scientific description.[5]

The phrase "survival of the fittest" is not generally used by modern biologists as the term does not accurately convey the meaning of natural selection, the term biologists use and prefer. Natural selection refers to differential reproduction as a function of traits that have a genetic basis. "Survival of the fittest" is inaccurate for two important reasons. First, survival is merely a normal prerequisite to reproduction. Second, fitness has specialized meaning in biology different from how the word is used in popular culture. In population genetics, fitness refers to differential reproduction. "Fitness" does not refer to whether an individual is "physically fit" – bigger, faster or stronger – or "better" in any subjective sense. It refers to a difference in reproductive rate from one generation to the next.[6]

An interpretation of the phrase "survival of the fittest" to mean "only the fittest organisms will prevail" (a view sometimes derided as "Social Darwinism") is not consistent with the actual theory of evolution. Any individual organism which succeeds in reproducing itself is "fit" and will contribute to survival of its species, not just the "physically fittest" ones, though some of the population will be better adapted to the circumstances than others. A more accurate characterization of evolution would be "survival of the fit enough".[7]

"Survival of the fit enough" is also emphasized by the fact that while direct competition has been observed between individuals, populations and species, there is little evidence that competition has been the driving force in the evolution of large groups. For example, between amphibians, reptiles and mammals; rather these animals have evolved by expanding into empty ecological niches.[8]

Moreover, to misunderstand or misapply the phrase to simply mean "survival of those who are better equipped for surviving" is rhetorical tautology. What Darwin meant was "better adapted for immediate, local environment" by differential preservation of organisms that are better adapted to live in changing environments. The concept is not tautological as it contains an independent criterion of fitness.[4]



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24 Feb 2012, 7:55 am

Personally, I think AS stays in the population because of how AS traits in BAP-y people are beneficial in the sciences and technological fields. And those fields are much more prized and sought after nowadays. But AS itself isn't being chosen for. Look how many people with AS don't even have children to pass genes on to. I think it's one of those things like how sickle-cell anemia is a troubling condition that stays around genetically in black individuals because of how being a carrier for it makes a person more immune to the malaria-causing Plasmodium parasite that runs rampant in Africa.


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