Being wrong about your own ToM-skills

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I always thought that I was good at interpreting other peoples thoughts and feelings. But, during testing, the psychologist noticed lots of things about my behaviour that I hadn't really put much thought into before. Such as not closing the door behind me when I was the last one to enter the room - she told me that it was an "unspoken rule" and that it might be considered rude not to close it. I was shocked, since I didn't mean to come off that way! I never even realized that it was an "unspoken" rule.

Prior to the assessment, I had analyzed my own behaviour during my childhood and up to present day. When you become introspective, you can learn things about yourself that changes your whole self-image. I always thought that had normal ToM, but that other people were weird and stupid... well, turns out I was the weird one...

Is it common for people with late-diagnosed AS to have THOUGHT that they were skilled in ToM, but later realized that they were completely wrong...? I always thought that there was something wrong with everyone else, not understanding the reasons why they didn't understand me. Reading Tony Attwood's "The Complete Guide to AS" was an eye-opener for me! I almost cried...
Plus, it was a complete shock for me to score low on Simon Baron-Cohen's Empathy Quotient Test... I've always seen myself as overly empathic (though I now know that there is a difference between affective and cognitive empathy).

I've always felt I had a good social IQ, but I was diagnosed with aspergers so maybe not. Obviously if one does have a low social IQ, one might not be socially intelligent enough to realize it, so you really need an objective third party opinion.

There's also a difference between having a low social IQ and simply not caring what others think. I think autistics can have both or either problem.

Sometimes I feel like I'm good at reading other people, and that when they tell me I've read them wrong, they're lying to me. But that's probably just my paranoia.

Oh man. You can count me into the rule breaker club. Those items like closing a door while last one in or some other etiquette.

I could wall-o-text Theory of Mind misses( if I could recall them ). I'll say that "empathy" deficiency as per Autism is not present, i.e intuiting body language. I'm aware how minds think and the social expectations that follow. But these rules were a problem and I'm not sure why I missed the proverbial boat here, other than being inattentive--likely in other words my cognition just plain missed them.

I got the notion that ADHD defined is Autism less body language. There seems to be everything else.

I indeed miss these "rules" but once it happens, only once is the miss. It's as if the subconscious desire to encode here is absent. The patch only happens through key boarding it in by conscious awareness. Once the base of it is programmed in, it is likened to the nodes on a fish net; a net now is formed, enabling you to 'catch' other rules subconsciously.

Definitely a developmental disorder. I'd argue and notch it up to 'pervasive.' Dyslexia in folks comes no where near this.

Last edited by Mdyar on 14 Feb 2012, 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

I thought I got good when I was in 5th grade but I didn't know I still struggled in it. My whole life I always thought other people had something wrong with them if they get upset with something or don't like something I like so it wasn't my problem, it was theirs and they had to deal with it and change. Like if they told me I was being mean to them when all I did was did a joke about their name, I would explain to them it was not mean and it's a joke and that jokes are not real and they are meant to be funny and I thought they were being too sensitive and not understanding it so they were the ones with AS and I was the NT. But everyone lacks TOM so I have no idea if my TOM is at the same level as NTs. In fact I feel I have better TOM than lot of people, especially NTs. I am sure there are NTs that do lack TOM more than other NTs and they just don't have enough to be on the autism spectrum. Those people are seen as uncaring and jerks or a bully or self centered because of it. But if they had enough for the AS label it be blamed on their condition but because they have no explanation for their problem, people just assume it's intentional.

I am thinking my cousin may lack TOM even though she doesn't have AS because she can't see the big picture and everything evolves around her and she is self centered.

I got 12 on that test! I took it a second time and scored 13
I always thought that I was mad, but that I covered it up REALLY well. When my daughter first bought up that I might have Aspergers I was really shocked and quite upset for a while.

I still think that it is mostly other people who are wrong though...they are so illogical and do inexplicable things....

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Last edited by nat4200 on 19 Apr 2012, 6:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

Part of my problem is, I tend to either be like totally dead on, or WAY off in my perceptions of other people. That, and with social rules, I either tend to not know them at all, or be overly courteous, polite, etc. Like one of my friends said it was awkward to go to the grocery store and buy one item. He described me as "not having the awkward filter most people have." At the same time, he's likely ASD, too, but yeah. For me personally, I didn't actually like, seek out a diagnosis, and I thought my ToM was pretty good, I guess. I at the very least didn't think anything was wrong in that regard.

I don't know really. I'm either really right, or really wrong, in my assessment of people. Mainly because not much comes out of "gut" instinctive reaction for me, so it gets thought out, because frankly if I act out of gut instinctive reaction, I tend to be an idiot, so yeah, everything must get "logicized" before I do it.

Then again, slightly different from ASD, I'm diagnosed NVLD, so it's different neurological issues going on, it's quite similar to Aspergers, but not exactly the same.

As far as Simon Baron Cohen's EQ, I scored like...16. I took it multiple times, and still scored 16 everytime. As far as empathy, it could just be my personality type, though. I remember comparing various scores for that test among MTBI types, I'm likely an ISTP, and almost every single ISTP scored abysmally low like that, most scoring around 16, some scoring like 8, with a few random "fliers" of like 30s, or normal empathy. Mean while, the INTJs scored on the lowest end, 20s, but were pretty normal, about the same with the ISTJs, too. I just find it weird how the ISTP personality type scores so abysmally low.

Last edited by 1000Knives on 07 Feb 2012, 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Also, because I am very smart I do make an effort to try and figure out what motivates people. I analyse other's behaviour all the time. I have even studied body language (before I'd ever heard about ASDs). But apparently, it is still obvious to everyone else that I am functioning differently. Which is annoying. It is like having one of those joke labels stuck to my back, only instead of kick me it says DIFFERENT!

It is scary because I am trying to develop a self-employed status, so I try to be extra, extra careful and aware when dealing with folk professionally, but otherwise I don't really bother to hide my difference now I know it is Aspergers and not madness. The discovery of same has been extraordinarily liberating.

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Last edited by nat4200 on 19 Apr 2012, 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

That only applies if the door was closed before, who was inside probably closed it for some reason (for example, reducing noise) and it would be annoying for him having to close it every time someone enters. If the door was already open it depends, I think you should only close it if you need privacy (Or if you don't want the other person to escape xD)

Hmmn, people surprise me sometimes. I think I know what's going on in their mind, but then they do something completely unexpected. So yeah I question my ability to read people.

One day I was explaining something to a customer, and it seemed like she didn't understand so I was having to repeat myself a lot. I thought she was about to get really irritated with me, because I myself was feeling very impatient with the situation. But instead she thanked me for explaining, and she meant it, she wasn't just being polite. She told me it meant a lot to her because the other sales reps didn't explain what they were doing the way I did. I didn't see it coming...same way I don't see it coming when customers flip out and get mad at me. Sometimes when I feel nervous I even try to watch people's faces very closely to see the signs, and yet I still can't figure out what they are feeling. I don't know why people have to react so emotionally to things anyway.

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Last edited by nat4200 on 19 Apr 2012, 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

It is? I don't see why.

I remember once my Aunt went in a store and made up some fake story about why she was buying something because she was embarrassed. I don't understand why she was embarrassed about buying something or why she thought the cashier needed any explanation, real or fake.

I've always thought I understood social cues well, but also there is etiquette, which I don't think is the same exact thing.

I've had friends throughout high school who were terrible at realizing rather someone was getting bored with them, or didn't feel like following along with them. Don't let some big business person tell you that you lack some etiquette skills, those people want to look all fancy and perfect. Etiquette is over thinking every little thing you do in order to not offend some holier than thou person. It must be confusing for someone with aspergers, because they cannot be sure rather a rule is genuine, or just nit picky. That being said though, the closing the door thing isn't a big deal, but I still think it's purposeful, because people like to have their privacy.

I've seen people say "Last one out, closes the door" and people asking someone to close it because someone left it open or telling someone to close the door after they had opened it. I have done the same thing too.