10 Apr 2012, 5:54 am
10 Apr 2012, 8:25 am
10 Apr 2012, 8:29 am
10 Apr 2012, 9:40 am
10 Apr 2012, 9:42 am
nessa238 wrote:
Jtuk wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
The part of my post that you have quoted was about NTs not aspies. I never said aspies weren't into facts and passing on information - I was actively saying they were.
So you've misunderstood what I was saying.
And NTs are predictability personified in my opinion - they are practically like robots!
You can mess with their circuitry by asking them an unexpected question - their whole system goes 'Does not compute!' and they can't give an intelligent answer as the majority of their opinions come from their group, not from working it out for themselves.
People can only speak from their own experience of the NTs they have interacted with anyway and this is mine.
So please don't tell me I'm 'wrong' as it's all purely subjective anyway
No, I haven't misunderstood. You are generalising about NTs, where we can only generalise (with limited reliability) about aspies.
Could you give an example of an unexpected question? I know that a lot of aspies on this forum would struggle to answer expected questions, such as those given in a job interview.
Jason.
I can generalise about who I like just as you can not generalise if that's your choice
An example of an unexpected question:-
A conversation is taking place about 'The X Factor' between an NT and a person with Aspergers. They are both discussing how nasty Simon Cowell was towards a particular contestant.
The person with Aspergers says 'Don't you think programmes like 'The X Factor' are directly responsible for both the dumbing down of society and the bullying behaviour that is so prevalent in society today? How can we be horrified at the amount of bullying that occurs in schools these days when people like to watch 'bullying as entertainment' in programmes like this?
And before you say you don't agree (as most people wilfully refuse to acknowledge the obviously detrimental effect of such programmes as they've been conditioned to like them or more likely just don't care enough) fair enough but those are my thoughts on the matter.
I can guarantee that the majority of NTs would have a look of Huh? and be stuck for words initially as they just don't tend to do this type of social analysis whereby you step outside of society and observe what's happening. They would have difficulty coming up with a decent reply as they just don't think like this.
To be honest though I've come to the conclusion that a hell of a lot of people with Aspergers don't think like this either and that this phenomenon is more linked to a lack of intelligence than being NT. With so many people being unintelligent it's easy to conflate this lack of intelligence thing with it being about the person being NT but I've met enough thick aspies in my time to realise now that I feel so alone in my opinions because most people around me are just plain stupid - NT or Asperger/ASD
So you may be right and the problem I have is with stupid people as opposed to NTs - it's just that 99% of people on the planet seem incredibly stupid to me, so I'm f-ked!
That's how life feels for me anyway and it's not arrogance either - most people couldn't formulate a well-thought out opinion if their life depended on it and I spend all my time having to humour them and talk on their level.
I think you'll meet a lot of smart Aspies who aren't full of it as you hang out here more but I'm not gonna pretend I haven't noticed what you're talking about.
I've actually seen it said here that in some European countries AS is given as a diagnosis to elementary school children with IQs around 70 or 80 even if they don't have it. because it's less stigmatizing or at least will give them an "excuse", if you will
I can't say the same thing is starting to happen in the US because I don't know or if it has been happening for years but I wouldn't be surprised.
10 Apr 2012, 12:40 pm
EXPECIALLY wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Jtuk wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
The part of my post that you have quoted was about NTs not aspies. I never said aspies weren't into facts and passing on information - I was actively saying they were.
So you've misunderstood what I was saying.
And NTs are predictability personified in my opinion - they are practically like robots!
You can mess with their circuitry by asking them an unexpected question - their whole system goes 'Does not compute!' and they can't give an intelligent answer as the majority of their opinions come from their group, not from working it out for themselves.
People can only speak from their own experience of the NTs they have interacted with anyway and this is mine.
So please don't tell me I'm 'wrong' as it's all purely subjective anyway
No, I haven't misunderstood. You are generalising about NTs, where we can only generalise (with limited reliability) about aspies.
Could you give an example of an unexpected question? I know that a lot of aspies on this forum would struggle to answer expected questions, such as those given in a job interview.
Jason.
I can generalise about who I like just as you can not generalise if that's your choice
An example of an unexpected question:-
A conversation is taking place about 'The X Factor' between an NT and a person with Aspergers. They are both discussing how nasty Simon Cowell was towards a particular contestant.
The person with Aspergers says 'Don't you think programmes like 'The X Factor' are directly responsible for both the dumbing down of society and the bullying behaviour that is so prevalent in society today? How can we be horrified at the amount of bullying that occurs in schools these days when people like to watch 'bullying as entertainment' in programmes like this?
And before you say you don't agree (as most people wilfully refuse to acknowledge the obviously detrimental effect of such programmes as they've been conditioned to like them or more likely just don't care enough) fair enough but those are my thoughts on the matter.
I can guarantee that the majority of NTs would have a look of Huh? and be stuck for words initially as they just don't tend to do this type of social analysis whereby you step outside of society and observe what's happening. They would have difficulty coming up with a decent reply as they just don't think like this.
To be honest though I've come to the conclusion that a hell of a lot of people with Aspergers don't think like this either and that this phenomenon is more linked to a lack of intelligence than being NT. With so many people being unintelligent it's easy to conflate this lack of intelligence thing with it being about the person being NT but I've met enough thick aspies in my time to realise now that I feel so alone in my opinions because most people around me are just plain stupid - NT or Asperger/ASD
So you may be right and the problem I have is with stupid people as opposed to NTs - it's just that 99% of people on the planet seem incredibly stupid to me, so I'm f-ked!
That's how life feels for me anyway and it's not arrogance either - most people couldn't formulate a well-thought out opinion if their life depended on it and I spend all my time having to humour them and talk on their level.
I think you'll meet a lot of smart Aspies who aren't full of it as you hang out here more but I'm not gonna pretend I haven't noticed what you're talking about.
I've actually seen it said here that in some European countries AS is given as a diagnosis to elementary school children with IQs around 70 or 80 even if they don't have it. because it's less stigmatizing or at least will give them an "excuse", if you will
I can't say the same thing is starting to happen in the US because I don't know or if it has been happening for years but I wouldn't be surprised.
Are you saying that Children with a learning disability are being given Aspergers diagnoses? This wouldn't surprise me at all. In my opinion there's no logical reason on earth for there being some random cut-off point of 'average to above average IQ' when a person has Aspergers. Neurology does not run parallel to intelligence. I think there's likely to be loads of people with Asperger's and a learning disability. Why should the Asperger's chatracteristics ONLY be found in people with a specific IQ?! That's a ridiculous idea, like saying only people with a learning disability can have epilepsy or schizophrenia.
The Aspergers diagnosis was evidently created to make rich parents feel better about their child being relatively bright but 'not normal' It's a way for the middleclasses in particular to pretend their child doesn't have a learning disability; a way of redefining learning disability out of the picture.
I might be of average to above average IQ but I know for a fact that aspects og my neurology mean I have what is effectively a learning disability. My intelligence mitigates for this but the majorit of the NT population still treat me as if I do have some kind of learning disability/difference from the norm - why would they do this unless my manner gave that impression?
Aspergers is just a more subtle form of learning disability in my opinion and learning disability has little to do with IQ!.
The average person with a normally defined learning disability has far more friends than me and far more acceptance from society so who is the more disabled? All autism is a form of learning disability and those who can't deal with that probably don't even have Aspergers.
Last edited by nessa238 on 10 Apr 2012, 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
10 Apr 2012, 12:45 pm
nessa238 wrote:
EXPECIALLY wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Jtuk wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
The part of my post that you have quoted was about NTs not aspies. I never said aspies weren't into facts and passing on information - I was actively saying they were.
So you've misunderstood what I was saying.
And NTs are predictability personified in my opinion - they are practically like robots!
You can mess with their circuitry by asking them an unexpected question - their whole system goes 'Does not compute!' and they can't give an intelligent answer as the majority of their opinions come from their group, not from working it out for themselves.
People can only speak from their own experience of the NTs they have interacted with anyway and this is mine.
So please don't tell me I'm 'wrong' as it's all purely subjective anyway
No, I haven't misunderstood. You are generalising about NTs, where we can only generalise (with limited reliability) about aspies.
Could you give an example of an unexpected question? I know that a lot of aspies on this forum would struggle to answer expected questions, such as those given in a job interview.
Jason.
I can generalise about who I like just as you can not generalise if that's your choice
An example of an unexpected question:-
A conversation is taking place about 'The X Factor' between an NT and a person with Aspergers. They are both discussing how nasty Simon Cowell was towards a particular contestant.
The person with Aspergers says 'Don't you think programmes like 'The X Factor' are directly responsible for both the dumbing down of society and the bullying behaviour that is so prevalent in society today? How can we be horrified at the amount of bullying that occurs in schools these days when people like to watch 'bullying as entertainment' in programmes like this?
And before you say you don't agree (as most people wilfully refuse to acknowledge the obviously detrimental effect of such programmes as they've been conditioned to like them or more likely just don't care enough) fair enough but those are my thoughts on the matter.
I can guarantee that the majority of NTs would have a look of Huh? and be stuck for words initially as they just don't tend to do this type of social analysis whereby you step outside of society and observe what's happening. They would have difficulty coming up with a decent reply as they just don't think like this.
To be honest though I've come to the conclusion that a hell of a lot of people with Aspergers don't think like this either and that this phenomenon is more linked to a lack of intelligence than being NT. With so many people being unintelligent it's easy to conflate this lack of intelligence thing with it being about the person being NT but I've met enough thick aspies in my time to realise now that I feel so alone in my opinions because most people around me are just plain stupid - NT or Asperger/ASD
So you may be right and the problem I have is with stupid people as opposed to NTs - it's just that 99% of people on the planet seem incredibly stupid to me, so I'm f-ked!
That's how life feels for me anyway and it's not arrogance either - most people couldn't formulate a well-thought out opinion if their life depended on it and I spend all my time having to humour them and talk on their level.
I think you'll meet a lot of smart Aspies who aren't full of it as you hang out here more but I'm not gonna pretend I haven't noticed what you're talking about.
I've actually seen it said here that in some European countries AS is given as a diagnosis to elementary school children with IQs around 70 or 80 even if they don't have it. because it's less stigmatizing or at least will give them an "excuse", if you will
I can't say the same thing is starting to happen in the US because I don't know or if it has been happening for years but I wouldn't be surprised.
Are you saying that Children with a learning disability are being given Aspergers diagnoses? This wouldn't surprise me at all. In my opinion there's no logical reason on earth for there being some random cut-off point of 'average to above average IQ' when a person has Aspergers. Neurology does not run parallel to intelligence. I think there's likely to be loads of people with Asperger's and a learning disability. Why should the Asperger's chatracteristics ONLY be found in people with a specific IQ?! That's a ridiculous idea, like saying only people with a learning disability can have epilepsy or schizophrenia.
The Aspergers diagnosis was evidently created to make rich parents feel better about their child being relatively bright but 'not normal' It's a way for the middleclasses in particular to pretend their child doesn't have a learning disability; a way of redefining learning disability out of the picture.
No, I meant that some kids who are just genuinely not bright get the label even if they aren't really autistic and have no positive traits of AS.
I actually know someone with an IQ of 74, PDDNOS but she works in a scientific field and seems smarter than a lot of people. You can definitely see her autistic traits manifesting in a positive way even though she has a lot f difficulties with functioning.
SanityTheorist
Veteran
Joined: 13 Feb 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,105
Location: The Akuma Afterglow
10 Apr 2012, 1:26 pm
10 Apr 2012, 1:28 pm
EXPECIALLY wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
EXPECIALLY wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Jtuk wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
The part of my post that you have quoted was about NTs not aspies. I never said aspies weren't into facts and passing on information - I was actively saying they were.
So you've misunderstood what I was saying.
And NTs are predictability personified in my opinion - they are practically like robots!
You can mess with their circuitry by asking them an unexpected question - their whole system goes 'Does not compute!' and they can't give an intelligent answer as the majority of their opinions come from their group, not from working it out for themselves.
People can only speak from their own experience of the NTs they have interacted with anyway and this is mine.
So please don't tell me I'm 'wrong' as it's all purely subjective anyway
No, I haven't misunderstood. You are generalising about NTs, where we can only generalise (with limited reliability) about aspies.
Could you give an example of an unexpected question? I know that a lot of aspies on this forum would struggle to answer expected questions, such as those given in a job interview.
Jason.
I can generalise about who I like just as you can not generalise if that's your choice
An example of an unexpected question:-
A conversation is taking place about 'The X Factor' between an NT and a person with Aspergers. They are both discussing how nasty Simon Cowell was towards a particular contestant.
The person with Aspergers says 'Don't you think programmes like 'The X Factor' are directly responsible for both the dumbing down of society and the bullying behaviour that is so prevalent in society today? How can we be horrified at the amount of bullying that occurs in schools these days when people like to watch 'bullying as entertainment' in programmes like this?
And before you say you don't agree (as most people wilfully refuse to acknowledge the obviously detrimental effect of such programmes as they've been conditioned to like them or more likely just don't care enough) fair enough but those are my thoughts on the matter.
I can guarantee that the majority of NTs would have a look of Huh? and be stuck for words initially as they just don't tend to do this type of social analysis whereby you step outside of society and observe what's happening. They would have difficulty coming up with a decent reply as they just don't think like this.
To be honest though I've come to the conclusion that a hell of a lot of people with Aspergers don't think like this either and that this phenomenon is more linked to a lack of intelligence than being NT. With so many people being unintelligent it's easy to conflate this lack of intelligence thing with it being about the person being NT but I've met enough thick aspies in my time to realise now that I feel so alone in my opinions because most people around me are just plain stupid - NT or Asperger/ASD
So you may be right and the problem I have is with stupid people as opposed to NTs - it's just that 99% of people on the planet seem incredibly stupid to me, so I'm f-ked!
That's how life feels for me anyway and it's not arrogance either - most people couldn't formulate a well-thought out opinion if their life depended on it and I spend all my time having to humour them and talk on their level.
I think you'll meet a lot of smart Aspies who aren't full of it as you hang out here more but I'm not gonna pretend I haven't noticed what you're talking about.
I've actually seen it said here that in some European countries AS is given as a diagnosis to elementary school children with IQs around 70 or 80 even if they don't have it. because it's less stigmatizing or at least will give them an "excuse", if you will
I can't say the same thing is starting to happen in the US because I don't know or if it has been happening for years but I wouldn't be surprised.
Are you saying that Children with a learning disability are being given Aspergers diagnoses? This wouldn't surprise me at all. In my opinion there's no logical reason on earth for there being some random cut-off point of 'average to above average IQ' when a person has Aspergers. Neurology does not run parallel to intelligence. I think there's likely to be loads of people with Asperger's and a learning disability. Why should the Asperger's chatracteristics ONLY be found in people with a specific IQ?! That's a ridiculous idea, like saying only people with a learning disability can have epilepsy or schizophrenia.
The Aspergers diagnosis was evidently created to make rich parents feel better about their child being relatively bright but 'not normal' It's a way for the middleclasses in particular to pretend their child doesn't have a learning disability; a way of redefining learning disability out of the picture.
No, I meant that some kids who are just genuinely not bright get the label even if they aren't really autistic and have no positive traits of AS.
I actually know someone with an IQ of 74, PDDNOS but she works in a scientific field and seems smarter than a lot of people. You can definitely see her autistic traits manifesting in a positive way even though she has a lot f difficulties with functioning.
Yes but this is my point. This idea of people with Aspergers all being 'little professors' is very spurious. Hans Asperger was only working with a small group of children and I think they were mainly the children of rich middle class people, as they would be the only ones able to afford his fees probably! So for ever after the world has this mistaken idea that a person with Aspergers is above average bright with a love of knowledge/detail. I think this is rubbish. Aspergers just denotes a certain type of disfunction and has no link at all to IQ/intelligence in my opinion. Some people with Aspergers might be intelligent but many are not; there is no link between having Aspergers and likelihood of intelligence. Many seem to obviously have a learning disability to me through their lack of self-awareness alone!
10 Apr 2012, 1:33 pm
10 Apr 2012, 1:59 pm
SanityTheorist
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10 Apr 2012, 2:52 pm
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10 Apr 2012, 6:28 pm
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