You all bore me

Post Reply New Topic

I stand by my statement that you employ a poor theory of mind. You seem to want to see everyone as having the same thoughts and abilities as yourself, rather than seeing them as unique individuals. Thus you believe everyone has the same mental capabilities as you. Sorry, but no. If we were all that capable of adapting, many of us would already have done so. Most of us adapt as well as we can as it is and yet still have difficulties. So, stop seeing everyone through your own narrow minded view of humanity and start seeing them as unique. Not everyone with Asperger's or high functioning autism has the same brain structure or the same abilities and deficits.

I also have to wonder why, if you are so functional, would you want to come to a place like this. It seems to me that it would be a waste of time. Did you just want to troll people into a froth over your narrow minded comments?

Last edited by Silverlight on 19 Jul 2012, 7:24 am, edited 5 times in total.

Beyond spending 30 years studying Raja Yoga, I don't think you can. If my skin starts itching, then apart from physical interventions such as a good hard scrub with hot water, and/or Deep Heat cream and analgesics, my only way out is to get into a special interest and hope to god the hyperfocus takes my mind off it. Ditto for my temperature sensitivity.......sometimes I go from too hot to shivering and back, and there's no temperature in the world that can make me feel comfy.

Sounds like an auto-hypnosis thing........I used to try those when I was a young idiot. "Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better." But I didn't. My depressive realism saw to that. I can't kid myself, not in that way.

OMG! So, my problem is that I just haven't tried hard enough or put in enough effort! Thanks for clarifying that. Because I don't think anyone who posts to this forum has ever had it pointed out that they are not trying hard enough. I guess I shall embark on becoming a nobel prize physicist, and just try a little harder, because by what you are saying, it is within everyone's grasp if only they try hard enough.

What you are saying is ridiculous.

You are really quite full of yourself. I am usually not so blunt, but I really can't help it. What you are basically doing is telling a room full of people who have a hard-wired, neurological difference, is that the reason that they have it and you no longer do is that you had the will power, effort, and motivation to overcome it, thereby implying the rest of them don't.

You clearly do not have full understanding of what autism is if you classify it along with "psychological entities such as mental effort." It is not a psychological condition. It is a neurological condition. No more amenable to change through acts of will than multiple sclerosis. I still suggest that if it was a psychological condition in your instance, then you never had what the vast majority of the people here have. And for you to stand here and tell people if they only try hard enough that they, too, can be successful like you is so...so...honestly, I cannot even put words to what I am thinking at this point.

I'm not even on the spectrum and you have managed to offend me with your self aggrandizing sense of superiority. I suppose you think my kids are on the spectrum because I am a cold mother or because I haven't nurtured them properly?

This seems to be your stock answer to disagreement.



You're answering arguments I never made. I said it is understood that AS and other autism spectrum disorders are neurological in origin and associated with differences in neurological development. I did not claim that this was precisely mapped out and every single part of the brain is perfectly understood. I did say that the brain is understood much better than you seem to believe. What I did not say, Rascal77s pointed out, which is that you claim we don't understand the brain, but then you make claims about AS that would require such understanding. But the existing understanding does not point to that as a realistic possibility, meaning that you are trying to speak authoritatively on a topic you do not understand nearly as well as you'd like us to believe.

I also find it strange that you make some fairly severely unfounded claims about the nature of AS vs. autism, despite research that indicates apparent severity does not actually impact overall outcomes.



No, I don't think so. Disagreement with your claims does not mean that you were not understood. Your claims seem fairly clear and not particularly complex, but they do clash with my understanding of neurology. I don't make any claims to being a neurologist, however, simply someone who reads a lot of research on neurology, autism, and ADHD.



Cartesian mind/body duality fits into what you said when you repeatedly claim that AS is not "physical." What else could it be? What part of the body is not physical that could explain the etiology of any part of the autistic spectrum? Does autism exist in some kind of hyperspace? Is it part of some hypothetical soul? You're complaining that I am not offering supporting links to refute your claims - despite your utter lack of sources to establish any veracity - and you're trying to claim that something that is recognized as deriving from a physical (if somewhat squishy) organ is actually not physical at all. What sort of science is that?



Pardon, but where's your substantiation of anything you've claimed in this thread? All you've done is posted a wall of text saying that if only we want it badly enough and try hard enough that we can "grow out of" Asperger's Syndrome. Anyone who reads this is apparently supposed to take everything you say as fact and can only respond with links to disprove you? Why do I need to provide a list of links to debunk your claims when you have no solid claims to begin with? If you look at my posting history, you will see I do not hesitate to post links to relevant research and articles to support my arguments when it seems necessary. In your case, it does not seem necessary. My four year old grandnephew loves Doctor Who. I might as well cite scientific research on how "sound doesn't work that way" when he tries to weld people's shoes to the floor with his toy sonic screwdriver as offer citations to refute your claims. The science is about as rigorous and accurate. The difference is, I think, that my nephew understands that Doctor Who is fiction, and is simply playing "pretend." You seem to take your claims seriously.



You keep abusing logic. I do not think that Occam's Razor says what you think it says. Here is something that actually fits into Occam's Razor rather succintly:

~80% of autistic children do not grow out of it. Therefore, the majority of autistic children remain autistic into adulthood. Further study would need to establish whether the remaining 20% were ever really autistic instead of something other more appropriate diagnosis, were autistic but their symptoms became too mild to be diagnosable as adults, or that as adults they were misdiagnosed as no longer autistic because they had developed sufficient coping mechanisms to appear NT enough that they were deemed to have improved enough to no longer need the diagnosis. Based on the statistic (quoted earlier in this thread), however, it's safe to say most people will never grow out of autism.

On the other hand, logic doesn't favor your arguments simply because you claim it is so. Logic is just a tool. It doesn't prove something is true or false. If the information you use to inform your logic is faulty, then even if your logic is correct in form, it will be wrong in content. And it is difficult to see what sort of process you're using to determine that your logic must be correct because you simply declare it to be so, and do not actually explain how you got there.



Stop this nonsense. You're carefully defining physical in such a way as to enable you to make sweeping claims about Asperger's Syndrome while claiming that because it's not physical there is limitless potential to address it. This shows an utter lack of understanding of what the human brain is and how it functions.



No, you do not seem to have taken this into account at all. You seem to believe that people are capable of limitless mental feats as long as they want it badly enough and are willing to try hard enough. But like every single organ in the human body, the brain has limits. It may be the most complex and least understood (but not poorly understood), but it is not a magical artifact that grants infinite potential.



This paragraph is rather odd, especially considering that you said everyone else was taking you too literally. But you post this, wherein you say the semantics of Asperger's Syndrome (the label) is not directly connected to the empirical aspects of Asperger's Syndrome - that is how the brain manifests the constellation of traits that have been labeled as "Asperger's Syndrome." This is sort of like saying there's no such thing as gasoline because gasoline is only a word. It's not a compelling argument and involves splitting infinitesimally smaller hairs to hold onto that ever-shrinking ground that appears to be your argument.



You're shifting the goal posts. It appears to me that no matter how much of your post is understood, if another's conclusions do not agree with or confirm your own biases, you will make this claim. If you truly feel you are not being misunderstood, then perhaps you should be more explicit, as you're on a forum with people who tend to take things literally. And I mean that as opposed to using that tendency to bolster your fairly weak claim that no one understood you. I do not think you were misunderstood, but I also think you're unwilling to admit that you could be wrong.



I don't recall seeing citations from you. Why do I need citations to disprove wild claims?



I don't think you understood my response. And you do not seem to appreciate how much different all brains can be. All brains have limitations, but all brains do not have the same limitations. This means your sweeping claim that everyone has no limit to what they can achieve through mental effort is nonsensical and absurd.



If you dismiss the neurological differences relevant to AS and autism (as they are not quite so fundamentally different as you have claimed earlier in this thread) then your argument loses all meaning. If your point does not address the actual cognitive impairments that are present with AS, then you cannot make any plausible claims about what autistic people are capable of using their brains to achieve. This is like saying arguing that all compact cars can do 315 mph because the Dagger GT can do 315 mph and the fact that most cars do not have have a 2000 horsepower 427 racing engine is "not the point" or "they all fundamentally doing the same kind of thing." Everything - and I mean everything has limits and those limits are consistent within the physical universe in which we all live. Brains do not get to violate thermodynamics just because some random wonk on the internet believes that "mental" means "not physical" and thus "not limited."



Unlike you, I have not made any extraordinary claims about what human understanding is capable of.



Because the way you are asserting that it is significantly different from a physical condition makes no sense, is not logical, and leads you to a spurious conclusion. Further, it requires ignoring existing research that makes use of empirical evidence such as actually examining the brains of people who have Asperger's Syndrome, autism, and PDD-NOS. Asperger's Syndrome, like any other disability limits one in some ways. You can't declare those limits null and void and expect people to believe you.



The difference between you and I is that I do not feel the need to resort to personal attacks to make my point. At this point, I do not think that I have misunderstood what you have written to any extent. I think this is, as I wrote earlier, a face-saving maneuver on your part. Despite the fact that you claim no one understands you, you haven't evolved your explanations to clarify these so-called misunderstandings.

As far as reading, I taught myself to read by the time I was three years old and taught myself to read at university level by the time I was in the first grade.

Last edited by Verdandi on 19 Jul 2012, 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

I absolutely agree with you. I have learned to hide most of my traits while in public. But, it is really tough to do so. The hardest one to hide is one of my stimming behaviors which I still do in public at times and that is my face tics and weird hand movements. The traits that gives me pleasure becomes extremely upsetting for me when I'm also out in public and have to fight back the tears many times, especially when I have to go on a trip. And you are right, when I'm out of my comfort zone where I can't enjoy my pleasureable traits does impact my life in a big way in some cases.

It's not ironic. Plenty of scientists are hard at work, and are succeeding in finding the genetic component to Asperger's. Like it was said, Asperger's IS Autism. In the next DSM, they are planning on grouping together Asperger's, Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Autism, Fragile X Syndrome, and Non-verbal Learning disorder as all a part of an "Autism Spectrum".

Some scientists have succeeded in isolating a gene associated with Autism and Asperger's. Here is the link:

http://www.news-medical.net/news/200907 ... pathy.aspx

It looks to me as if you have not done much research on the science behind autism. Well, you're going to find people on here who have, because we actually want to understand our own diagnosis. I would suggest doing more research before giving us theories that have only so far applied to you.



I looked it up, and OCD is found to be genetic. So is ADD, schozophrenia, and Bipolar disorder. What's your point? The medical community tends to "cure" these disorders with constant drug-taking. That does not change their biology, it only forces their way of thinking to change while they are on the drug. When they are off it is another story.

Right, then. This is not going anywhere. I have no problem with retracting statements when they don't end up holding water but that's not quite what's happened here. And don't play me like I'm some fool saying that nobody understands me. Your rhetoric does not protect the sheep from its predator. It merely casts a strange mold upon it, limning it undesirable and weary.. Well, there's really nothing else I can say. Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.

(What one cannot speak of, about that one must be quiet.)

Not quite true, if you pleaded your case with facts and not rattle on and on to the point of boredom and useless information. The only thing you manage to do is stir up the feelings of us with Atism and Aspergers. In your case you may have such mild Autism that it can't be diagnosed.

I think most everyone who replied your post understood you. You're the one who said that no one understands you, and you refused to clarify in any meaningful fashion.

Your comment about sheep, predator, and rhetoric seems to have no relevance.

Your biggest argumentative flaw was giving us the burden of proof, and then dismissing that proof, while not providing concrete information youself. Also, AS is not only a diagnosis, if it were then sure, someone could function well enough to not fall into the diagnostical parameters, but the underlying brain wiring would still be there, which is what AS really is. Speaking German doesn't make you sound any smarter btw, it's just pretentious and makes you harder to understand. Jetzt kannst du Weg gehen. Wiedersehen! (Now you can go away. See you!)

Nicely handled, Verdandi.

You bore us too. Don't become a troll.

One of the rhetorical gambits I really dislike is when someone does this. "I do not have any research or evidence to back up my claims, but you can't prove me wrong without some of that research or evidence!"

Mostly, I just do not like it when someone comes around to say "Y'all aren't trying hard enough," no matter how much they try to pretty it up.

Thead locked due to OP changing subject line to be offensive and retracting all his posts. Silverlight will now be shown the door...