Aspies and gender

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I'll with you.

Oh, between mathematics, gaming, robotics, being online at all, being autistic... and being female sexed person, I get that quite a bit. But from the people who look into the idea of what feminine vs masculine mean rather than people who do the "but there are no girls on the internet" in response to everything, is what I'm meaning.

There's the gender roles, what people are expected to do, the stereotypical "women are supposed to be in the kitchen". And then there is expectations other than that that are supposedly "feminine" or "masculine" that aren't gender roles, but are something else.

I dunno. It'd probably make more sense if it didn't feel so foreign.

I am a man. The other stuff makes no sense.to be.

Non-gender binary elements seem to be present far more commonly in us than NTs, but it's not entirely exclusive to us.

Could you refer me to the kind of sources you're using for "the people who look into the idea of what feminine vs. masculine mean?" I don't understand the distinction you're making. I just know that failing to fit into the gender role of "woman" in various ways people expect results in everything from contempt to condescension. It seems relevant to gender roles and gender expectations when such deviation is either socially punished or mocked.

I am not arguing with what you're saying, though. I want to understand what you mean.

I don't really identify as feminine or masculine.

I sometimes do wish to be protected by other people. I learned it will never happen. The older I get the more I have to be the one who protects others (provides, takes care, helps). It gives me some satisfaction if I can do that, there are people who need it, and I ask nothing in return (as the primary rule). If I had a mate I'd prefer someone who is about equal to me, I don't want to dominate nor to be dominated. An open mind and a better ego-mastery are the prerequisites. Getting to a better understanding of how gender expectations can ruin one's life is a good starting point.

I have quite frequently throughout the years wished I had been born a boy because I had a lot of trouble identifying with girls. Boys made more sense to me and I often squelched girlish tendencies because I was ashamed of them. I thought, for some unknown reason, that they were bad. In spite of how much I've wished I was a boy throughout the years I've now come to terms with the fact that I am a girl with some masculine tendencies. I no longer feel like it's a bad thing to want to look pretty, or to be really proud about getting a new pair of beautiful shoes. There are still plenty of girlie things that will always feel alien to me, but I'm okay with that, too. I've figured out who I am. I am a girl. I'm not like other girls. But that is because I'm me and I am sure that in some way my uniqueness can prove a strength if only I can learn to be open to that.

Biologically female, in a heterosexual relationship, but don't understand the whole "gender identity" thing. I think I have traits popularly considered both masculine and feminine.

Appearance-wise, I have long hair, and sometimes wear dresses and jewellery. However, I resent spending time on "fussy" grooming and don't usually wear make-up. Most days my choice of clothing is for temperature appropriateness and general comfort.

My special interests have always been fairly gender-neutral (e.g. music).

As a kid I preferred bikes and mud pies to dolls and dressing up.

On balance I'd say half-and-half.

I'm wondering if someone can explain to me what the obsession with defying gender norms is about? The way I see it typical age/gender/whatever behaviors are set out by a given society as both guidelines and benchmarks, as long as one avoids deliberately outrageous contradictions of such standards, I see no reason to feel persecuted, do your own thing and don't worry about others.

There is no obsession with defying gender norms here. This isn't about defying gender norms at all. There are people that do not neatly fit into said gender norms. They are part of society, so therefore a healthy society ideally acknowledges and accepts this.

The fact is that biological gender is not clear cut - there is more than xx and xy. There is xxy, xxo, xxyy, and so on.
Also, gender identity and expression varies widely.

Society may have guidelines, but depending on the culture, it varies widely. If your biological gender or gender identity doesn't match societal norms, I don't believe in forcing ones' self to fit into accepted norms. It isn't healthy for said individual or society. It is not realistic either. Gender variance has been around since the dawn of mankind. There are modern cultures that acknowledge this.

Where is the outrageous contradiction? Please clarify. I personally have not witnessed this. I have witnessed, however, people living true to who they are and being happy and at peace about themselves, contributing to the whole.

I don't think anyone here has mentioned persecution, although I will say, it does exist. Violence against gender variant individuals is real. Employment and housing discrimination are very real too: Reports about discrimination against transsexuals. I can only speak for myself, I do my own thing and don't care about what anyone else thinks. It doesn't mean I haven't experienced discrimination, poor behavior, and actions of others against me. The poor behavior reflects the character of the person engaging in it. I'm not concerned if others have a problem with me. I'm strong, a survivor and I live my life to the best of my ability, so I will continue to hold my head up.

I am a male. I have a penis and a Y chromosome therefore I am male.

Do I always behave as a male? Not always, but just because I like Americas Next Top Model doesn't mean I'm not a male.

I've never found the gender binary limiting or anything.

I'm actually smart cause I get to see hot girls while other guys watch two dude wrestle.

This.

And I am more than content to do my own thing in regards to "gender," but, unfortunately, society isn't forgiving of people who don't toe the line.

Masculinity and femininity is not an issue just specific to culture, it is also an issue of biology. And, identified in research as an associated issue of androgynous physical features for both males and females diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. And also identified in research by Samuel Cohen Baron, that shows gender neutral characteristics in brain scans among females and males with Asperger's Syndrome. Of course, one has to have an MRI to actually determine the brain part for sure, but most people can identify with androgynous physical characteristics if they have them, as well as through the identification of that androgyny by others, particularly in the school years. Unfortunately that can be a typical source of attack of receiving bullying for some, above and beyond any social communication/repetitive restrictive behavior disorder, but it is difficult to tell just how much the hormonal influences impacting physical androgyny may be associated with what is eventually diagnosed as Asperger's Syndrome for some.

It certainly can not be a single defining causal hormonal factor as there are those who do not identify as having androgynous features disclosing a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome. John Elder Robison would likely fit in the latter category, and interesting that his most well self identified difficulty is with actually feeling the connective experience of empathy with others, which is generally associated with higher androgen levels.

Having too high of a level of emotional empathy for others, can eventually result in the erosion of the ability to feel empathy from burnout, as well continued abuse from bullying, and of course being born that way has the same general impact, but earlier in life. It appears from John Elder Robison's reports he was born that way, and unfortunately, confused by some as having other disorders because of that issue. There are probably many, many people like John Elder Robison that make it into mid-life without a diagnosis, because anxiety is often reduced in those that do not experience a great deal of emotional empathy for others either, when it is naturally biologically determined. It can be the difference between coming back from war with combat fatigue, and wanting to go back into combat.

http://keithsneuroblog.blogspot.com/201 ... l?spref=fb

It is also interesting to me that males on the spectrum identifying more strongly with masculinity as opposed to femininity, from my own personal anecdotal perspective seem less likely to show much emotion in their language, and are less likely to exhibit what is referred to as schizotypal thinking; that is prevalent in the informal polls taken here. But there are really very few that make that clear, only a handful that I can think of per my own anecdotal experience, which makes me wonder if most are not as highly motivated to go out on the internet for a social connection, where instead they may be engaged on the internet doing other things, or in real 3 dimensional life, working with their hands, in the visual spatial world.

To the Op, for future reference when one makes a poll, one has to add a blank option, after their last written option in the poll for the software to acknowledge that last written option. This was a good poll, and unfortunate that the option for females not identifying stronger either as masculine or feminine did not make it through. Also another option was needed for males identifying as mainly masculine. If one asks a moderator they do have the ability to correct this, however at this point those answers seem to be included in the posts, for those that chose to comment.

This is a very interesting subject to me, and I might provide another poll, just based on the question of does one consider themselves to have androgynous physical features. The mind part can be subjective as a person can still identify as feminine or even express themselves in what is culturally considered a feminine way of communication and have extremely masculine physical features; Mike Tyson and Tim Tebow are two widely identified examples, particularly Tim Tebow, however I have no idea how they personally see themselves or identify internally.

I agree entirely with Twolf's answer.

I want to add though that I commented on social punishment and mockery for not meeting gender norms, which may be what you are interpreting as "feeling persecuted." The social punishment and mockery is quite real, and it is completely normal to react negatively to it. A random guy on the internet isn't going to change that by saying "I see no reason to feel persecuted."

Anyway, as has been said, I don't think anyone here has an obsession with "defying gender norms." I never did, but I don't know how to "fit gender norms" nor do I see any particularly compelling reason to try.

To aghogday: I strongly suggest you look into Cordelia Fine's "Neurosexism" before making sweeping claims about how much of masculinity and femininity has a neurological basis.

I am male and masculine. Where is the option for that on the poll?