Books or help relating to NT's, particularly my wife.

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I have searched and searched, but all the materials I can find are for NT's to be able to "deal with" their Aspie partners, not the other way around.

I always thought I was just really different, and joked that I was an alien. But, being obsessed with my business, etc. since college, I never bothered to research my own difficulties and find out about Asperger's.

I have not been officially diagnosed, but it is obvious after research. It took me a few months to digest. I was SHOCKED at age 39, to realize that there were other people with stories and situations that were almost identical to my own.

I came to this realization upon researching the social and organizational difficulties that our son was having at age 13.

My wife has not been understanding or helpful at all, and says Asperger's is just an excuse for lazy, unorganized, aloof people like myself, and that my son is the same way. (I grew up poor, worked my way through college, and am now wealthy with a very successful business, and my son gets decent grades; A's and B's)

I barely studied in HS or college, I never had any friends, couldn't speak in front of the class, I could not remember my homework, the combination to my locker, and sometimes it would take me 30 minutes to find my car in the parking lot after school. But I always tested very well, got good grades, and graduated.

My point is that I cannot understand my wife's way of thinking and it is destroying our marriage. She refuses to help at all with diet, organizing, etc. She thinks he should be able to handle all of these things himself. I have such a hard time trying to get through days myself, that I feel ill equipped to help my son. I have tried making charts, etc and ask her to help fill in the kids activities and so on, but she does not do it. I feel like my wife is abusive to us, but every resource I see is geared towards helping people deal with an abusive Aspie, not the other way around.

I put up with the cruelty for years when it was just me, but now that my son has hit puberty and started middle school, the AS parts of his personality are a lot more obvious. He is not nearly as far on this end of the spectrum as I am, and I have long talks with him several times a week, so he always has someone to talk to about his problems, which I never had.

My wife just comes unglued on him constantly about going to bed, getting out of bed, taking a shower on time, doing homework etc. It is so hard for me to handle, and my meltdowns are becoming more and more frequent. I am really starting to dislike her as a person, and feeling that she is just a mean, cruel person. I know that I have been dishing out emotional abuse back to her lately, and I want to do something about it, but I feel powerless to understand or stop her.

I want to understand the way a NT person thinks and feels emotion, so that I can try to understand her frustration. The way she acts is so illogical, and seems so counterproductive to me. I do not know what else to do.

This is something I'm looking for too. Hope that we find it soon?

Ditto that.

Maybe it would be easier for my wife to accept if she had signed up for this; but she had no idea; neither did I. All I can tell her is I'm in a learning mode and am making progress to make our communication and marriage better. My hope is that someday, after all my efforts to understand and accept her the way she is, that she may feel like doing the same for me. Until then, everyone here is my acceptance and support. And maybe if we pool our experiences, we'll find we have something here that's better than books.

Maybe we should start blogging our failures, revelations, and stuff. I'm the same boat you're in, and I want things to be better too.

I've noticed the dearth of info too. So, would you like to start a mini AS:NT hotline type thing to answer questions specifically on this issue?

I'm half and half and I think I understand NT ways just fine for the most part (though I'm not so great at reciprocating) so I'd be very happy to offer some perspective if you have specific questions. I'm sure some other NT people or AS people with life experience could also happily join in.

I think there is already a thread for the hotline idea. I would really like to have some books or studies or?

It seems to me that high functioning AS individuals would easily be able to study and figure out the whole NT way of thinking/bahaving if there were resources available. That is our main strength, correct? I have always been able to quickly figure out pretty much anything I have ever bothered to put the energy and focus into. There have been many things I started and dropped because they did not hold my interest, but this subject is so important, I am sure I could focus on it and figure it out if I had the resources available.

But what does that mean? in order to learn, would I study psychology or ?
Also, self help materials are written from/for an NT layperson perspective, that alone makes it difficult, if not impossible to understand.

I have read several books on the subject, including one last week about "high conflict" relationships. If I were to try to use the methods in this book, I feel like I would be basically trying to manipulate my wife, (or anyone else). I feel like it is implied that in order to maintain a good relationship, you need to be selfish and figure out "ways" to get what you want without arguing or demanding. You would use things like positive reinforcement, different speech patterns (say "I feel..." rather than "you should...") and other notions.

This is what I dislike about NT's. It seems to me like they are manipulative and selfish. Why do you need to be manipulative and selfish with someone you love in order to have a harmonious relationship? It does not make any sense to me. This is the behavior that makes me upset. Why can people not just state their needs and wants and put forth a plan to make it happen?

I just do not feel like it would be moral to study their NT psychology, become an expert in it, and then use it to manipulate them. Is there a difference between this and what you often see preachers, scammers, and even evil dictators do?

Where would you draw the line, and could you draw the line? And if this is the method, I do not know if I am even interested. Is that what it takes to "get along" with NT people.

Have you tried _A Field Guide to Earthlings: An autistic/Asperger view of neurotypical behavior_ by Ian Ford ?

I keep rereading it, and have found it helpful in understanding NTs in general.

_________________
If it don't come easy . . . .
. . . .hack it until it works right

Aspie score: 142/200 NT score: 64/200
AQ Score: 42
BAP: 109 aloof, 94 rigid and 85 pragmatic

I have some friends who do not accept asd diagnoses

My view is that they wish to continue deriding others, so their ego must maintain the view of inferior individuals worthy of derision... rather than a mindshift toward understanding and compassion

Its a shame that this is your wife....good luck

I don't think that if she doesn't understand you at all a book can help that much. It seems to me that your biggest problem is that you don't feel that your wife accepts your differences, not that you don't understand her: even if you did understand her better, there would be some things that you just can't do in a normal way if you have an ASD, so you should both work to understand each other. I think the best thing you could do is getting your son and yourself evaluated and then talk with a family counselor who can explain your ASD to your wife.

This is coming from an NT spouse. Every book I have read about AS/NT relationships was total dog crap, including Finch's book. They didn't make me feel better. Just worse.

An Fior bought a ton of them, used on Amazon.

How most of them can across to me is

-this is how he is (which makes it sounds like there can't be any compromise), here's a cup of STFU or get out.

Or

He's this little man child. He will never be there for you. Blah blah blah, rejoices in the differences or STFU and leave.

So....

The thing that help me the most is this board. What are your major issues? Fior's excutive function skills are literally nonexistent. I used the search function and found threads relating to that. Now I know he isn't not doing things to just to piss me off, but he truly can't help it. We've worked around it.

The board saved our marriage. I can pull up a thread and ask, "is this an issue for you?". "Is this what a melt down is like?"
It helps that numerous people are writing about a specific topic, instead of one author.

I'm coming from the angle that I pushed for Fior's diagnosis. He was originally diagnosed as OCD, depression, social anxiety disorder. None of them rang true to me. Snippets did, but it didn't fit. So I paid upfront cash to the best expert in our area. He said he knew Fior had Asperger with in 5 minutes of meeting him.

I still have my issues with the diagnosis, but that would be true if he had any other major medical event. What is the line in the sand to leave? What is beyond me being able to handle/tolerate this or that behavior? I'm not a Mother Theresa, and Fior has issues with ME. Marriage is a give and take. Does the good stuff out weigh the things that drives you wild? So far it does.

For the NT, the Aspie diagnosis for a spouse is a loss (we didn't know be was on the spectrum when we were married 30 years ago). The world how you imagined will never be here. My husband has no clue what do if I am ill. I was on ICU for 8 days, and he never once called the doctor or even came up to visit. Why should he call? What good would it do to visit? Don't even add the "should we pull the plug?" aspect.

I made peace that it is beyond Fior to be there when I'm ill. The doctor did not. When at discharge, Fior picked me up (2 hours late, thank you excutive function skills, and he also got lost), and my doctor was there. He made the comment, even crack heads fake caring. Thank you jackass. That spiral Fior into the stratosphere, and that caused a panic attack too. Not helpful.

Anyway, I have someone else appointed to make medical decisions, if I'm gorpped out on a vent. Fior just can't do it. He wants to, but for numerous reasons can't.

I don't know if any of what I wrote will help. But out of all the things out there, Wrong Planet helped the most.

Thanks for all the input everyone. It gives me a lot to think about.

I will check out the field guide.

Right now I feel like I will just go with Curiouskitten's advice and "plow on without her cooperation" which is what I have been doing, but it is very difficult, and it is so hard for me to avoid confrontations with her. We just cannot see things from the other person's perspective. When I was younger, I allowed her to dictate everything, to the point of what I now see as abuse, or at least using my "emotional problem" against me. But, now that I am older and confident, she cannot accept that I am not a pushover anymore. I do not want to be emotional abusive, but I do not want my kids or myself to have to put up with it from her either.

My Aspie traits have most definitely contributed to my business success, an my wife would not argue with that. And yes, she has def. enjoyed the fruits of that labor.

It is not that my son is not "hitting his milestones," he just cannot do things in the same manner that someone highly organized like my wife would do. She was always a straight A student, valedictorian, etc. But she cannot think in an abstract way. My 13 year old son and I have conversations about philosophy, physics, Geo-politics, etc that she could never follow. She will not help him get organized, she just wants to yell at him about it. It seems to me that a happy or at least tolerable existence is so much more important than getting homework done on time. If the kid can get A's and B's, then that is good enough for me. Why scream at him every morning and every night? Is that going to make him suddenly become organized like her? Is it THAT frustrating living with us? Is it THAT important for things to be done a certain way? How can it add to our lives other than keeping her "off our backs?" I have gotten to the point of actually asking my son to do things her way so she will not yell. I feel like it is wrong to tell my son this. Sometimes it is so obvious that she is being irrational, how and why should I support her?

My wife cannot understand how I can drive around and not be able to find the Chuck-E-Cheese we have been to 3 times before. She cannot understand how my son can not remember to bring home a book he needs, or to turn in assignments that are in his backpack done already. So, she yells at us about these things. It feels like she thinks we are irresponsible, or lazy, or stupid.

Janissy says that the things in relationship books are not manipulating people, they are basically normal healthy emotional exchanges, and that the AS way is "business-like" and somehow wrong?

I have a successful business, we have healthy beautiful children, we go on vacations, etc. I am just different, I have to hear all the conversations at a restaurant, not just ours; I might make a wrong turn sometimes; I do not show emotion the same way as others; I have a "mean" or "intimidating" look on my face all the time, etc.

But, why is it that the AS way is WRONG? why does everyone act like the NT is in such a horrible position to have to deal with the AS? Why not the other way around?

I am from a small town, and most of the people I know are business associates, employees, etc. So, I do not have other people with AS that I can relate to, but it seems to me like high functioning AS people are a lot more gentle and honest and would just be easier to live with. They would not have the ulterior motives, manipulating ways, emotional issues, etc

It appears that the AS person is always being made out to be a pain in the ass. But, it seems to me like it is the other way around. I feel like I am more intelligent than NT people, more honest, harder working, even more caring in my own way. So, why am I the weird-o? Because I am the minority? Am I missing something?

I know some AS people are unable to cope, but in cases like mine, why is it "better" to be NT? When I would get upset with employees or people in general, my wife would always say "they are not like you" "most people are not like you" "not everyone can be like you" ETC To the point that I realized they just cannot be like me, they just do not have "IT" whatever it is. Now I know what "IT" is, an actual difference in brain function, should I not feel sorry for the pathetic NT people? If most AS people were not raised in bad environments by NT's, maybe they would not have so many social problems.

Ugh. I am frustrated.