Why do NTs reject normal friendliness?

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I'm the same - I can't see the point in being needlessly unpleasant to anyone and would never see myself as 'too good' to speak to someone

If someone treats me like this though their card gets marked and I'd go out of my way to avoid them.

People like that tend to shoot themselves in the foot as I think aspies can often be very helpful and knowledgeable people so it's their loss!

When i was in Elementary school in the 1980s, a lot of the SAQ younger mothers seemed to hang out in their own cliques. They smoked and talked loudly in front of the school, they were white and wore clothes that looked like they had in High School.

My mother was friends with the older mothers, the non-white mothers, the non-judgemental mothers.

The children knew i was "different", "odd" at a very early age. Its like they smell it out like sharks.

Who brought up the SAQ is right on, it transfers from parents to their children i believe. I wasn't invited to certain parties as the mother thought i was weird, yet the child was always nice to me. "I'm sorry i can't invite you, my mother won't let me, she thinks your weird"

That is really messed up... if I had a hypothetical child to whom that happened then I would be having words with said mother to make sure she knew what a nasty, judgemental, narrow-minded cow she was.

I think this is a pretty reasonable comparison and it could explain it.

That's a very astute analogy. But why would they assume their ball was rejected? Why would they not just think: "poor shy person, needs help playing ball"?

I have been thinking about the same question a lot, I guess I found an answer:
They see the person does not start a conversation just like that, maybe they expect the person to be like them (I believe the instinctive empathy NTs have only works "flawlessly" with other NTs, which would often explain why many of them do not automatically use the "out of the box"-thinking right away) and see the mostly non-acting social behaviour of the person as an insult, see: "you think you're better than us and dont want to have anything to do with us?" or "it's give and take and not take when you need it". It's the same with social behaviour, it's give and take as well, you contact those people, they contact you but apparently they have some form of time limit/time span in which you must have contacted them for a certain amount of times, otherwise you come off as someone who might think bad of them or who thinks s/he is better than them and doesn't want to lower his/her level by having contact with them or that they are just a tool to waste time with (e.g. talking with them only when very bored).

Just a wild guess though and I could be terribly mistaken too.

Some insight from a NT would be useful I guess.

I'm new to this forum and I don't know you, so I'm not sure if you're an Aspie or NT or how you identify. So this is just off the top of my head.

My child attends a private school and the politics amongst the class parents can be very snooty. If you generally don't interact with other mums, it's possible they have a view of you as being someone who prefers to keep to herself, and consequently trying to strike up a casual conversation with a mum that you happen to be seated next to may give the impression that you feel a sense of obligation to interact when really, you don't want to. And she might have been responding to that.

However it's equally as likely that she was just having a bad day/ was preoccupied with some home issue/ had just heard some news that she wanted to reflect on/ had just been snubbed by someone else (or her child had just been snubbed) - and didn't understand why and was trying to think about it! Absolutely anything could have been going through her head, so my best advice is to not take it personally. Remember it for the next time you speak to her, and be a little cautious - perhaps make eye contact as you cross paths around the school or whatever - to see if she's receptive. But don't assume it's you. She may well be more receptive next time.

If she isn't, see if you can get into a situation where you're standing near her but where you don't initiate conversation. Just get comfortable with being near her and let her get used to the idea that you're around. I would also try to interact a little more with the other mums. Get to know them. Start just by standing a little closer and doing that consistently so that sooner or later someone will strike up a conversation with you.

Thanks for your reply. I'm an Aspie.

This was 2.5 years ago or more it happened, and I've home-educated my children for over 2 years now anyway so I don't see this person. I wasn't bothered about her personally, just why NTs react like that as it's happened to me generally in life on a few occasions.

I wouldn't have interacted more with the other parents, it's not something I want to do, although I was always polite and friendly if any of them ever spoke to me. Pretending to be NT is incredibly draining and stressful for Aspies and I wouldn't force myself to interact with it making me feel like that. I believe it's their problem if they make false assumptions about me based on no evidence to back it up whatsoever. I was just wondering why they do it.

Based on the information you've provided there could be a number of possible scenarios and indeed many running concurrently. I'm going to make a fairly safe assumption that many of the parents are already known to each other and had sufficient time to socially connect on the same wavelength.

One of the mistakes Aspies make is to assume having common social experiences (in this context having children going to the same school and coming from similar socio-demographic backgrounds) that people should automatically connect with each other. There are subtle changes in cues in body language, tone of voice and idiosyncretic habits in social decorum that are learned in a common environment, often from childhood.

So when these parents meet there is a lot of social banter that will border on the inane and ritualistic but serves as a form of social bonding in order to reinforce the group dynamics. This group dynamics determines who is part of the "in-group". You have stated that you keep to yourself and don't mix with the other parents. Thus as far as the group dynamics of the parents is concerned, the burden is on you to prove that you can connect (metaphorically speaking) with the group as a whole (i.e. using the soccor game anology from another poster) or with an individual parent.

Social interaction with NTs takes much investment in time and close observation of social cues, speech and general direction of banter. It also takes plenty of practice. In the case of the woman who snubbed your invitation for conversation; I don't think it's cut and dry that she was deliberately snubbing you (although it may appear that way). She may not not be familiar or understand your comment over the baby and she may have been preoccupied over the machinations of the group or an earlier conversation she was involved with.

So your best bet is to join the other parents listen to their conversation and when you feel confident enough cotnribute when you think there is an opportunity. If you believe they are not listening then show interest and try again. NTs are generally flattered when a person shows genuine interest in their conversation but the trick is to follow the social dynamics. In your case timing may be a issue. Don't always assume NT people are naturally snobs if they don't answer you back. A lack of knowledge of group dynamics combined with innapropriate social context will invariably lead to the group (as a whole) not responding to you. Each parent will vary individually so in future you can try finding an indivudal parent who is friendly and perhaps potential gatekeeper to letting you into the group.

This is one of the reasons why I have social anxiety. I just get so afraid to strike up conversations with people I don't know very well, in case they are rude and it makes me wonder if it really them being rude or if it's just me doing something wrong.

I don't think you did anything wrong there. I thought most people liked someone to say something about their baby. You were only being friendly, what's wrong with that? The woman should have been friendly back, even if she wasn't in the mood or whatever the reason was, she still could have given a smile or a short answer. It's not like you were being nosy at all. My friend reacts to every baby she sees in shops or on buses. Admittedly not all mothers respond. I suppose you just get some unfriendly NTs out there too. Not all NTs spend every waking minute of their day looking for some form of social interaction. But that's still no reason for her to be unfriendly.

This is why I don't like greeting people as I pass them in the street. My mum and her sister gawp at everybody who passes because they seem desperate to get some sort of attention from every stranger that passes them, whoever it is. But sometimes I believe that it doesn't always pay you to be friendly to strangers in the street (unless you recognise them from somewhere and they recognise you). Maybe years ago people spoke to each other more, but nowadays things have changed. I've often made myself greet people passing in the street but they just looked at me like I was insane, so I don't bother any more. I give people a smile at bus stops, and if they want to make small talk with me then they can, otherwise I just keep myself to myself. And yes, I do have social anxiety/phobia, so I can't always help taking social rejection personally.

Wow, that's a lot of analysis. It's way too heavy for me. My brain can't take that level of analytical effort on socialising. It needs to be simple and straightforward - like me. I'm increasingly aware of the 'block' in my head when it comes to socialising. At my daughter's ASC assessment yesterday, they showed her some cards of social scenes and asked her what was going on and what the people in the scenes were feeling. It was done in a separate room from me, and apparently she did really badly (she got her DX) and when they were explaining what happened to me, I asked to see some of the social scene cards so I knew what it was she didn't understand. I didn't understand what was going on in them any more than she did and they had to explain it to me. Apparently she tried to guess using intelligence, rather than intuitively, and that is what I have always done, I didn't know it was 'wrong' or that other people do it differently. I actually feel increasingly upset about it, because I had no idea I was that clueless, and when I try to think about what you are supposed to know about socialising, even when someone has explained it to me, I can almost feel a block in my head and it won't compute. It's almost scary, because I had thought I was nowhere near that bad.

I agree, I have social anxiety too (is it any wonder we feel this way when you make an effort and things like this happen!)

I hadn't thought I'd done anything wrong either, and I've always thought that there is no need for people to be rude or to come across as rude for any reason (but then I do have quite bad issues on the empathy side). I mean, if she sat there, it must have crossed her mind that being as we were the only two people there, it was a 'normal' thing (at least for NTs) to strike up a conversation. When you find something difficult anyway, to be rejected makes you wonder why you bothered in the first place.

I've always found it odd when strangers smile or nod at each other in the street. I remember once getting a countryside bus in a rural area. I was so suspicious, because every single person that got on that bus smiled at me. I felt like I was in some weird film where the people had been taken over by aliens! In the end I realised that it was because it was a bus service serving a small area and probably the people were much friendlier than in the city I'm used to. Even the bus driver was dropping people off at their doors rather than the scheduled bus stops! (I know you'll find this interesting because you have a bus special interest).

The thing is, I really don't want to interact with strangers, just by virtue of being forced into a situation where you have to be near/with them, I don't want to feel obliged to talk to them and I feel like they are right in my personal space if they come and talk to me. There was this one woman (one of the other parents) who did always used to come and speak to me, I used to refer to her privately as "chatty lady", boy was she loud. She was one of those salt of the earth, loud, gossipy but not in a malicious way, people. I got used to her in the end, but I still cringed a bit every time I saw her on her way over because she was so loud and chatty I felt as if I was meant to mirror her behaviour and it's so not me. I felt like I was being invaded because she was one of those people who wanted to know about you and question you, and I'm such a private person.

Ok, I understand what you are saying. The two critical points to take home are;
a) NTs (and indeed many aspies) are often preoccupied with their own thoughts
b) Most NT people are not snobs and they are not deliberately trying to snub you when you suddenly interrupt their thoughts.

NT people have so much going on in their lives, taking care of families, holding down a job, paying off bills,. looking for a promotion, networking, appointments with friends, keeping their spouses and direct family happy etc etc....the list goes on. Some people may respond in a polite manner but many simply don't respond in order keep themselves on track.

In relation to my point b), I suggest finding one individual parent who you can relate to best. There will be at least one good natured soul in a group of parents.

Thanks for that. Although, I am also taking care of my children, paying bills and running a house the same as those NTs! And they have the benefit of understanding social nuances whereas I don't so my brain is fuller and more preoccupied than theirs! They have the advantage and I'm the one who is still supposed to be the one to get round their behaviours which I don't understand.

I'm actually out of that situation at the moment because I've been home-educating, but it will no doubt arise again. It reminds me why I keep a distance in the first place, it's just too complicated and difficult.

One thing I've noticed, is that even though many NTs may fully have the ability to socialize effectively, they often don't have very good social skills at all, or just don't want to be social/friendly. For example, I used to work at this one place with about 40 employees. Every day we had a 1hr lunch break, it was a pretty isolated location so you had to eat there, there wasn't time to drive and go anywhere. I would eat lunch in the break room every day, along with 2 other people that I became friendly with. However, all 37 of the rest, would just go eat their lunches in their office with the door closed, and not talk to anyone. And that was kind of a typical situation there.

I always thought it was kind of funny, since I often found myself being one of the more social and friendly people there, even though I am far from the best at socializing.

In my opinion, with NTs it's often all about what your perceived social status is. If you are not part of a social group you are an unknown quantity and this often makes Nts uneasy and they won't want to talk to you. It's all about who you know and what those people think of you more than what you are like as a person in your own right ie what is the group opinion of you.
It's a bit like having a credit rating but it's a social assessment.