Female-To-Male Transsexual People Have More Autistic Traits,

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Yes and I think it's respectful not to imply the thread originator is some kind uninformed idiot!

If I don't know all the issues perhaps that's why I'm asking questions

I'm not trans, I'm bi-gendered, but this still worries me.

I won't deny their findings, because to do so would be intellectually dishonest. I'm mainly concerned with people using this as an excuse to deny someone their identity. Still, they definitely need to do some repeat studies. This particular case may just be a statistical anomaly.

How is it denying someone their identity?

What is the essential problem you have with this research?

I quote: Simon Baron-Cohen interpreted the results as follows: "Girls with a higher than average number level of autistic traits tend to have male-typical interests, showing a preference for systems over emotions. They prefer not to socialise with typical girls because they have different interests, and because typical girls on average have more advanced social skills. Both of these factors may lead girls with a higher number of autistic traits to socialize with boys, to believe they have a boy's mind in a girl's body, and to attribute their unhappiness to being a girl."

It not a matter of dislike, its a matter of a flawed premise. Only someone who sees the things to a very extreme degree would not note the thousands of years of cultural evolution that contributed to this perspective let alone the damage that goes into implementing such ideals with complete denial of relativity. Unfortunately the denial of interests simply being interests or even taking more influential matters into account on the lines of culture, philosophy, religion, education, and even law make such statements in this article seem very loaded not to mention misleading.

This is actually the first time I have had someone on the internet simply talk at me and have the nerve to tell me how I feel and what I like. What makes you think this is acceptable and not detrimental?

Incase you didn't realize I used OP as "Original Post" not "Poster", I believe those who made the article are uninformed idiots. At no point did I ever make any such assertion that you were. My concern is people reading things like this and having them passed off as "science".

You are definitely not an idiot, but you do seem to be quite uninformed, and even misinformed.

That you're using people's disagreement to simple entrench your beliefs doesn't really help.

I don't think you started this thread out of ill will or are acting out of ill will, but right now you're essentially telling several people that you are more qualified to be an expert on their experiences than they are because you do not think they are responding to attempts to discuss whether they're really the genders they say they are with enough willingness to accept that as a valid debate topic. I mean, in your immediate previous post to this one you are actually arguing that the only reason epitome81 disagrees with SBC's research is because it does not fit her agenda. You're not giving her room to actually have a valid disagreement because his conclusions happen to have nothing to do with what trans people, autistic or otherwise, are really like.

When you use the arguments against your position to reinforce your position, that is not rational debate. It seems to fit this fairly normal profile that most people fit at least at some point in their lives:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas ... _backfire/



You've been given facts. These facts have simply reinforced your beliefs. It's perfectly normal and perfectly human, but it is not a rational response.

I am not posting this to insult you, but rather to ask that you step back and consider how you're responding to people in this thread, and the effects what you are saying has on them.

I've been in that position in the past. I am not proud of it, and I try not to do it if possible. I sometimes fail.

I haven't talked AT you at all - I've expressed my opinions and asked you questions

Without me creating this thread on the first place you wouldn't even have had a soapbox to start dictating to everyone in the
first place!

I suggest you start your own thread to continue the type of 'only people in the know allowed' discussion you want to continue, leaving my thread clear for people with an actual interest in the scientific aspect!

What in the hell are you talking about? You're no longer making any sense and are emoting. If this is "science" I'd hate to see what "ignorance" is.

It is science - it's research that has reached some interesting conclusions

If you don't rate it that's fine but I do and other people might as well

Who are you to dictate what others should or shouldn't deem relevant or interesting?

This is about the effect hormones may have on the autistic brain and upon the brains of people with transgender issues;
it says is there a link between autism and having transgender issues

the theory fits me but stops at the point of wanting to actually become male - I find it interesting to discuss what causes some people to stop short of wanting to change gender, while feeling not typical of their gender in their minds

You are effectively saying 'This topic isn't up for discussion as I don't feel comfortable discussing it' - I don't think that's fair

Withdraw if you don't see it as relevant to yourself but why spoil things for people who do?

It's not unthinkable that someone might use the results of this studies to effectively tell trans men that they aren't actually trans, their autism's just showing. I'm not saying it's happened yet. I'm worried it might. That's why it's important for this study to be repeated, hopefully with a larger sample size.

So go and start a thread to discuss what you want to discuss!

None of this ever happened. This is your perception.

Yes I'm all for a much larger sample size, to see if the rresults are repeated

I'd say that the study is implying that autism and having transgender issues might have the same cause but not that everyone with autism will be by definition having transgender issues or vice versa - it just says there could be a common cause

So stop trying to shut the debate down then

^QFT *out*

Oh dear - you used 'QFT'