What would aspie + borderline look like?

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Tyri0n
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28 Feb 2013, 11:19 pm

Pretty curious since they seem, in fact, to be opposites. The one thing I'm missing is the reckless behavior, but it seems like almost everything else fits to a tee.

I took a BPD quiz and scored very, very high. Not only that, I noticed a lot of the questions overlapped with bipolar and avoidant personality disorder, which leads me to suspect that I should be looking at this one, not those, as I was previously. I'm dxed with Avoidant Personality Disorder, but some things don't quite fit, so I'm wondering why I was flagged for it.

BPD seems to tie together my anxiety, depression, avoidant personality, rapid mood swings, and problems developing friendships and relationships not explainable by lack of social skills alone.

The quotes are examples from the website, not my own experiences. http://www.bpdcentral.com/borderline-di ... ks-of-bpd/

Quote:
Intense fear of abandonment, real or imaginary.


Yes.

Quote:
Having intense relationships with lots of conflict, and seeing the other person as “all-good" or “all bad."


"She would break up with me and then want to get back together—sometimes in the same day. Feeling unsure about one’s identity; a lack of “personhood" or non-existence. Feeling empty, like one has a black put inside them that can never fill up.
Like a lot of people with BPD, I have a chameleon-like ability to take on the coloring of the individual I am with. But the act is done more to fool me than to fool them."

OMG! YES. I did this to a girl recently, whom I dated for two months.

Quote:
Engaging in impulsive “pain management" behaviors, such as going on spending sprees, having promiscuous sex, driving recklessly, abusing drugs or alcohol, binge eating, breaking the law, threatening suicide or making attempts, and engaging in self-harm.


Driving recklessly, self-harm, and sometimes binging, but this is one that doesn't quite fit as well as the others.

Quote:
Being emotional unstable: frequent and fast mood changes; uncontrolled, intense anger and rage; and intense sadness and irritability.


Yes.

Quote:
Paranoia in very stressful situations; episodes of numbness or “zoning out" or “dissociation" (feeling numb or "zoned out").


Yes. For sure.



Logicalmom
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28 Feb 2013, 11:37 pm

Hi,

The questions overlap as the symptoms overlap - this is a controversial diagnosis and there is a lot of "mimicry." Health professionals are not too kind to that diagnosis, and while I am sure you are seeking "answers", I advise you proceed with caution. Please be careful of self-diagnosis - I appreciate your own insight is important, but be cautious.

Food for thought - bipolar can present with rapid, and even very rapid mood swings. There can be emotional problems with ASD. There is just so much to sort out, so much of "one thing" can look like "another - traits can overlap without constituting a diagnosis.

Best to you, LM


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Embroglio
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28 Feb 2013, 11:38 pm

I show many signs of BPD, I often wonder if I have it. I think for me what may have caused would of been the fact that growing up showing emotion was forbidden in my house. I was expected to just hold everything in.



undercaffeinated
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28 Feb 2013, 11:40 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Pretty curious since they seem, in fact, to be opposites. The one thing I'm missing is the reckless behavior, but it seems like almost everything else fits to a tee.


I've read somewhere (don't remember where) that they actually are (at least by some) believed to be opposites -- aspies being less sensitive to non-verbal indicators of emotion, and borderline being hypersensitive. I think it's mainly speculation at this point, but I think there was at least one study supporting the idea. Maybe one can be slow at reading cues but hyperresponsive once they're noticed?

Tyri0n wrote:
I took a BPD quiz and scored very, very high. Not only that, I noticed a lot of the questions overlapped with bipolar and avoidant personality disorder, which leads me to suspect that I should be looking at this one, not those, as I was previously.

BPD seems to tie together my anxiety, depression, avoidant personality, rapid mood swings, and problems developing friendships and relationships not explainable by lack of social skills alone.


There may be some overlap, but when I've tried those sorts of tests they indicate that bipolar is likely, but I generally score quite low for borderline... although I've read that some professionals believe bipolar disorder and at least a predisposition to borderline personality disorder to be related and on the same spectrum.



Tyri0n
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28 Feb 2013, 11:41 pm

Logicalmom wrote:
Hi,

The questions overlap as the symptoms overlap - this is a controversial diagnosis and there is a lot of "mimicry." Health professionals are not too kind to that diagnosis, and while I am sure you are seeking "answers", I advise you proceed with caution. Please be careful of self-diagnosis - I appreciate your own insight is important, but be cautious.

Food for thought - bipolar can present with rapid, and even very rapid mood swings. There can be emotional problems with ASD. There is just so much to sort out, so much of "one thing" can look like "another - traits can overlap without constituting a diagnosis.

Best to you, LM


It's not about self-diagnosis. I have been looking at bipolar for the past few months then found that this might fit better. Once I have an idea, I will seek professional advice. I'm just not to that point yet. I do think BPD fits better than even rapid cycling bipolar.



marshall
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28 Feb 2013, 11:43 pm

If I'm honest about my answers I score "high" on those tests as well. Internet quizzes are fairly meaningless but I've also scored above normal for he "borderline traits" on a real test administered by a counselor. I don't know if I could technically be anything near what I envision the stereotypical person with BPD. Yea, I have issues with depression, mood swings, and anger, but as an asexual introvert I don't feel like I have that much in common with those with true BPD other than having a few shared traits.



Logicalmom
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28 Feb 2013, 11:49 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Logicalmom wrote:
Hi,

The questions overlap as the symptoms overlap - this is a controversial diagnosis and there is a lot of "mimicry." Health professionals are not too kind to that diagnosis, and while I am sure you are seeking "answers", I advise you proceed with caution. Please be careful of self-diagnosis - I appreciate your own insight is important, but be cautious.

Food for thought - bipolar can present with rapid, and even very rapid mood swings. There can be emotional problems with ASD. There is just so much to sort out, so much of "one thing" can look like "another - traits can overlap without constituting a diagnosis.

Best to you, LM


It's not about self-diagnosis. I have been looking at bipolar for the past few months then found that this might fit better. Once I have an idea, I will seek professional advice. I'm just not to that point yet. I do think BPD fits better than even rapid cycling bipolar.


Fair enough - I am just being "protective" for you :)


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marshall
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28 Feb 2013, 11:52 pm

undercaffeinated wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
Pretty curious since they seem, in fact, to be opposites. The one thing I'm missing is the reckless behavior, but it seems like almost everything else fits to a tee.


I've read somewhere (don't remember where) that they actually are (at least by some) believed to be opposites -- aspies being less sensitive to non-verbal indicators of emotion, and borderline being hypersensitive. I think it's mainly speculation at this point, but I think there was at least one study supporting the idea. Maybe one can be slow at reading cues but hyperresponsive once they're noticed?


Not all are less sensitive to non-verbal indicators. At times I seem more sensitive than average. Sensitivity does not always equate to accuracy though so you can still misread things.



Tyri0n
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01 Mar 2013, 12:05 am

For such an impaired child, I've had a successful career in NT fields (so far) and a successful school life, all with plenty of human contact but never any real friends. Who could survive in a foreign country, survive the military (I worked so freakin' hard to fit in and do what I was supposed to do, then got promoted to the point where NVLD sank me and I got let go for unsatisfactory performance in spite of putting in 10X the effort of everyone else), and then go through law school (which is hell btw), all while dragging all the baggage along, without snapping even with perfect neurology? And that's just the last 3 years.

I wonder if acting NT and trying to fit in too hard could cause symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder even if it isn't the disorder itself. Certainly would match the "feeling unreal," the fear of rejection, and maybe even the switching my opinions about people at the drop of a hat. All these things have been reaching a crescendo since I got my diagnosis three months ago.



Logicalmom
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01 Mar 2013, 12:20 am

Tyri0n wrote:
For such an impaired child, I've had a successful career in NT fields (so far) and a successful school life, all with plenty of human contact but never any real friends. Who could survive in a foreign country, survive the military (I worked so freakin' hard to fit in and do what I was supposed to do, then got promoted to the point where NVLD sank me and I got let go for unsatisfactory performance in spite of putting in 10X the effort of everyone else), and then go through law school (which is hell btw), all while dragging all the baggage along, without snapping even with perfect neurology? And that's just the last 3 years.

I wonder if acting NT and trying to fit in too hard could cause symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder even if it isn't the disorder itself. Certainly would match the "feeling unreal," the fear of rejection, and maybe even the switching my opinions about people at the drop of a hat. All these things have been reaching a crescendo since I got my diagnosis three months ago.


Seems like a reasonable hypothesis.


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Noetic
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01 Mar 2013, 12:47 am

Psychiatric labels aren't Pokemons - you don't "gotta get 'em all".



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01 Mar 2013, 3:08 am

Hello

Why do you think they seem to be opposites? I think ASD and BD are similar in some aspects.

I suppose that BD is a sort of "catch all" diagnosis, a "mix bag" for all disorders that not match entirely on the other categories.

Tyri0n wrote:

(...)

The quotes are examples from the website, not my own experiences. http://www.bpdcentral.com/borderline-di ... ks-of-bpd/

(...)

"She would break up with me and then want to get back together—sometimes in the same day. Feeling unsure about one’s identity; a lack of “personhood" or non-existence. Feeling empty, like one has a black put inside them that can never fill up. ...."

Yes. For sure.[/quote]

...And that's exactly how my girlfriend behaves almost every week. (I don't know if she's Borderline or ASD...)


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EQSQT: 33, 70 (Extreme Systemizing)
BAPT: 110, 105, 95 (Autistic/BAP)
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Baron-Cohen et al)
AQ: aspie 115/200, NT 89/200 (Aspie and NT traits)


Tyri0n
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01 Mar 2013, 7:56 am

How could one tell the difference between cyclothymia (mild bipolar) and Borderline?