"Overcoming" Aspergers? - Change in diagnosis

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Is there anyone here who was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome but then lost the diagnosis due to losing some of the DSM IV criteria?

I just met with a psychologist who downgraded my current diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome to Anxiety Disorder NOS because I have been able to overcome many of the obstacles with Asperger's syndrome (executive functioning, narrow obsessed interests, lack of eye contact, etc.) through learning and conditioning. I'm surprised I didn't receive PDD-NOS instead, but the psychologist thought I was too "higher functioning" to have that.

I still have the social issues (strong nonverbal cue difficulties, overly formal talking, lower cognitive empathy) as well as sensitivity to sound, light and touch, so I'm still convinced I have the neurological difference that puts me on the autism spectrum, but I have been struggling with how to understand this new diagnosis and where to take it from here.

For those who have experienced something similar to this, what did it feel like and how did you ultimately interpret the change? I kind of have an idea on how to interpret it, but I'm interested in other perspectives as a point of comparison.

Sounds like a very ignorent diagnostician, at least with regard o he spectrum. Too high functioning, meaning what? In his perception you can hold a conversation, your not banging your head on stuff, and don't display obvious repetative ticks. The reality that the person who can do everything except establish emotional intimacy with another person is compleatly outside of their comprehension

Hi Philosoraptor.

If you remember me you know we think alike. I think I know where you are coming from.

I believe I have finally understood in what way autistics think differently from neurotypicals.


Neurotypicals believe life is/should be about survival/existence.

Autistics believe life is/should be about something other than survival/existence.

But the thing is, it's a spectrum. You could find yourself somewhere in the middle. It sounds like that's what you're doing. I am somewhere in the middle myself. It's a very confusing position. It's like, you know and remember your autistic side, but at the same time you've learned enough to act and behave like a neurotypical. So what does that make you!?


Well, I don't think you can completely change yourself. If you act a certain way for a long period of time, you will find that way of acting becomes more natural - in that sense you can call it a "change". But I don't think the autistic brain wiring is fundamentally changed. It is a really great coping technique that may make you feel as if you've almost lost your autistic side.


To be more non-autistic you have to think of the world through the glasses of your own life. You ALWAYS consider the world through the glasses of your own life, not in the objective way autistics sometimes do. Something is interesting because it has a connection to your life or someone else's life. Something is important because it is important to your life or someone else's life. Nothing is interesting simply because it is interesting (the way autistics may feel about their obsessions).


In practice, if you desire to live less autistic, you have to be more "irritated" with your surroundings. Being irritated with your surroundings is a sign that you think about your own life. You are irritated that your needs are not fulfilled, hence you act in order to have them fulfilled. This is called motivation. This is also the reason why a lot of autistics cannot find the inner motivation. To think less like an autist think like "I'm really annoyed that my surroundings do not serve my needs (and thereby my life) more than they do. Well since they don't, I'll have to do it myself. And I will do anything in order to have them fulfilled."

That seems possible, though if what you say later is right it's possible I have never actually experienced either of those perspectives. I find life to ultimately come down to survival/existence, but I find what fulfills those basic needs to be a lot more multifaceted and drawn-out than is typically portrayed. No NT-heavy hedonistic YOLO for me. I'm in it for survival/existence for the long haul.



That certainly is the dilemma, which I think is why it has been so difficult to classify me over the years. A psychiatrist gave me Generalized Anxiety Disorder years ago, which I have since disregarded (I only feel anxiety in certain kinds of situations). Then a psychologist saw Aspie traits and diagnosed with me with PDD-NOS, which he later upgraded to Aspergers, and then a new psychologist confirmed that diagnosis but then, as described, changed it to AD-NOS. The key element I have seen is a LOT of uneasiness from these psychologists with attaching these labels, since I don't really seem to fit any of them.

To answer the question, I suppose it makes me neurodynamic? Able to distinctly separate my mind from my physical-emotional limitations in a very autistic way, but also able to reconnect my mind in certain capacities to feed those physical-emotional forces into my mind in a very NT way. The former is far more developed than the latter, at least now, but I get a sense that I could pull off pure NT with enough experience.



It's essentially classical conditioning. Your mind and body gets so used to acting a certain way and your brain gets so used to using certain pathways that, like a bell causing a conditioned dog to salivate, the "NT-ness" covers the autism with a lot less resistance. But those autistic inclinations are still always there, hovering in the background, and in times of stress or exhaustion they will often start becoming more apparent.



That is very interesting. As a kid and even as a teenager, practically all of my interests fit that autistic definition of interests: no regard to how it fit with my peer group or how it could have practical use. It wasn't until high school that those self-glasses started to get use; now, most of my interests are actually fitting of that non-autistic definition of interests: they have connection to my life or someone else's. Hell, the fact I'm typing this is indicative of my "obsession" with psychological knowledge, which has objective value to me outside practical uses as well as a subjective connection to my life. Of course, having a mostly NT conception of interests with Aspie behavior and mannerisms makes for a very confusing combination.



If this is accurate, maybe there is something to my no longer fitting the Asperger diagnosis. Throughout my life, my environment kept me down and gave me barely any opportunities to be fulfilled. I put up with it or lashed out at it as a child, and then something flipped. Five years ago, I naturally started to sublime that irritation into motivation in certain areas. Now, I'm distinctively NT when it comes to my academic and professional life (which has created more NT-like communication experience that has carried over everywhere), but still dinstinctively Aspie when it comes to relationships and most of my friendships. It's a very confusing place to be in, but I do wonder if it will be possible to capture the best of both worlds and allow the opposing tendencies to cancel out the weaknesses. Very interesting idea.

If you have good social skills but are still dysfunctional when it comes to friendships and relationships, I'm surprised they or you didn't look into personality disorders. There are lots of NT's with personality disorders who struggle socially, why was this not considered in your case?

Well, I wouldn't describe my social skills as "good", but they're at least adequate. I'm a bit choppy with greetings and especially with small talk, but I communicate well in structured conversations like interviews, business meetings, academic discussions, debates, etc.

Are there any particular personality disorders that would be good to look into? Of the ones I know of, the only one that seems to fit would be Avoidant Personality Disorder, but one characteristic listed is low self-esteem, which I honestly don't see myself having. I'll ask my psychologist about it though.

This upcoming DSM V specification for Social Communication Disorder might also be relevant, although I looked at it and it said verbal communication must also have difficulties, which is not the case for me.

Well, I'm looking into several for myself. I, like you, have little trouble with structured conversations. I am ok at small talk -- though a little disadvantaged because I'm sometimes unfamiliar with what other people are talking about, though this is less of a problem than formerly. But quite awful when it comes to building relationships or friendships. Basically, I don't know how to move beyond small talk to personal talk. I don't like to talk about myself or really know how. How about you?

I am also looking into AVPD, among other things.

I don't know -- is there a personality disorder that involves social and communication difficulties without either a mood disorder or low self-esteem? Maybe Personality Disorder - NOS? Maybe you're like a blend of AVPD, Schizoid, and maybe another one. Dunno. I don't know you. I have serious mood and self-esteem issues that you may not, though I'm like you in the other ways.

That's some kinda bs right there.

Seems absurd to say that someone w/ ASD who has learned better coping mechanisms to better blend in with the NT world is no longer on the spectrum.

Ditto if you manage to do it via any other treatment or combination of treatments. This topic hits pretty close to home for me because I have managed to figure out ways to drastically reduce my own symptoms and function higher, yet I know full well I'm still ASD and still have many outward recognizable AS traits and behaviours, as we'll as the internal anxieties and such - I've simply managed to figure out what was making my adhd/as/ocd/tourettes etc brain go completely haywire & then learned what I needed to and changed things up to treat myself. I went from quite obviously on the spectrum to, well, way better presently - yet I know full well I haven't "outgrown," AS. That's just ludacris to think one could.

Now this has me wondering if whichever Psychiatrist I see, for an official diagnosis when I can get an appointment, will believe me. They will have to be very well versed in AS to pick up on my voice and other subtle unique AS traits. Plan B would be to go back to the things that amplified my various neurological conditions to the nth degree so I'm very auttie when I go for my appointment - but that would be voluntarily going back to a living hell that I know could take 3-6 months to reverse again. Plan C could be to tell the doc my story and then send myself only part way to autistic hell right in front of him and prove to him beyond a doubt that while I'm Dr. Jekyll by focused disciplined effort and self treatment, I haven't shed my ability to still become Hyde - I just choose not to because life is getting better and better this way.

I agree. Aspergers Syndrome is a pervasive developmental disorder. It cannot be cured.

Aspergers Syndrome is not the wrong software installed on the "right" hardware. The hardware itself is fundamentally different.

You can only "install some different software" using coping techniques. That's all. The hardware is still the same.

True. If we stick to the definition of autism as a spectrum, there's still the possibility of aspies adapting to a level that - in diagnostic terms - would be considered as subclinical.

That's not so much about "curing" Aspergers, but diagnosing it as disorder in the first place...

So far, I have literally only one strong friendship to refer to when it comes to bridging the gap between small talk and personal talk. I knew her from middle school, but the bonding took place via online chat and during high school when we both were extremely stressed out and needed support. She's also a very open person in general. I'm open when all I have is verbals to worry about (and I excel there), but I have been unable to translate this experience in person.

Based on that, the ingredients for personal talk seem to be: mutual interests to get things moving, personality similarities in areas that create solidarity to bolster empathy, personality differences in weakness areas to create value in the relationship. and mutual openness to revealing personal details to make personal talk actually happen. It makes sense in theory, but I just don't know the recipe to make it.

For me, it's not as much not wanting to talk about myself as much as not really understanding HOW to actually start and sustain personal conversations without violating the unwritten social rules. I don't mind talking about myself, as long as I don't feel I'm monopolizing the conversation, and as long as I trust the other person to be just as open as I am. Of course, if anyone else has the same approach, one person has to make the move to encroach on personal talk (in my above example, she did first). Every time I have tried with others, they usually glaze over it and future conversation never goes beyond surface things like hobby discussions. I'd rather be transparent, but it seems worthless to me when all I ever see is opacity.



I'm not sure. I definitely have a mood disorder through anxiety, as going through social situations I don't have much experience with just causes my brain to panic and rapidly overanalyze the situation (check my threads in Love & Dating, for instance).

I had self-esteem issues before, but reaching my non-social goals has boosted my self-efficacy and hence given me the perspective of recognizing and valuing my strengths while taking note of my weaknesses. I guess...I just don't feel like I fit anywhere except for within my own category. So even if it isn't "Asperger's syndrome" per say, I'm still on a wrong planet, or at least on a satellite of one.

Look, just because NTs don't care about the same things as autistics doesn't mean they don't care about anything beyond mere survival.

Most NTs, for example, would not want to spend the rest of their lives in solitary confinement, even if all their physical needs were met, because regular social interaction is vital to their emotional wellbeing.

Seriously, what is with all these weird notions about NTs I keep seeing on this forum? Don't any of you have NT relatives or acquaintances?

If you don't like NTs saying autistics are empty shells, don't do the same to NTs.

I've been struggling with labels recently and have thought a lot about this. The way I see it, these diagnoses are imperfect measures of the problems that you are facing. The label groups your problems together to help with getting effective treatment for those problems based on previous research. So if you are having problems with Aspergers-like symptoms, that label can help you get treatment for those unique groupings of symptoms. Likewise with an anxiety label.

So I guess what I'm saying is: take the labels with a grain of salt? I'm not sure if it's been documented that people can get over their diagnosis. If you still have Asperger's problems, then I don't know why she would downgrade your diagnosis. If you "got over" your Aspergers symptoms and now feel socially adept in dynamic environments, then you were either misdiagnosed or you actually overcame it somehow. If you never felt like you had Aspergers in the first place, then you could have been misdiagnosed. Whatever the case may be, I would focus on getting help for the symptoms that you feel you need help with.

Last edited by deltafunction on 15 Mar 2013, 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Something like that, except I've managed to debug the firmware or better yet remove a virus/malware that was screwinng with my source code. I didn't just install some new software in attempt to rewrite my programming - I removed some that was causing me to crash.

Speaking of labels, I thought the new DSM-V labelled us all as ASD.. So how can they downgrade a diagnosis? All they can do is slide your diagnosis a little farther along the spectrum towards the HFA side vs. LFA; but its all still ASD & a part of the reason for that is so that even high functioning individuals can access support and financial resources/insurance coverage etc for treatments or housing or w/e.

Well said!