First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !
21 Apr 2013, 1:02 am
What do you do if someone badmouths a former boss that you really liked but it is an acquaintance doing the badmouthing who did not know the full picture?
Also, NT managers, do you give reference checks that really show the person's issues, like OCD? Can this bite you later?
It would depend who the someone was.
The more I know the person the more I might say. I would almost always try to gently put in something positive about that person into the conversation.
If the boss hurt them and they have a legitimate gripe then I would try to listen and be supportive, because that (when someone is venting about a hurt) is the wrong time to try to praise somebody.
I could answer better if the question had more detail.
21 Apr 2013, 1:06 am
How do NTs learn certain "unsaid" rules, such as "you behave more compliantly to someone in a position of authority over you, such as a landlord? I only recently discovered that customarily a landlord has more authority than a tenant. I had always thought we were equal, seeing as I receive a roof and he receives money...
Well, some of us learn it the hard way too.
I remember when I moved into one apartment building and the building manager lady was in my apartment that night. I had been up since early that morning packing and moving and it was about 10 PM and I was so tired. She chose that time to be in my face giving me a list of building rules and insisted I go around the apartment with her to write down anything I saw that needed repairing (shouldn't that have been done already?) etc. She asked me at one point if the apartment was clean. I told her (matter of factly) there were bits of sponge and a black hair in the sink (the truth.) She hit the ceiling. She ranted and yelled "I cleaned it myself! I left it there!" I told her "How was I to know that? I thought that was from the last tenant."
Luckily she was only there a few more months but during that time she wouldn't speak to me. I learned then that no matter how wrong they are, just smile and say what they want to hear, unless it's a really big deal. It isn't fair at all but that is how things seem to work. Now if it is something serious like bugs, noise, harassment etc., then do complain.
I guess the lesson is "pick your battles," but then I still have a tendency to say how I feel, so, maybe I never did learn after all.
21 Apr 2013, 1:09 am
Because they are rude and nosey.
Unless someone is in distress in a physical way or sobbing I see no reason to bother them.
21 Apr 2013, 1:14 am
They are trying to say they are driven and career oriented and not lazy; but when it comes time to have fun they like that even better. They put even more energy into having fun, than they do into working, which is already a lot.
Usually it simply means they work a lot of hours and drink a lot of beer on the weekend. Lol
21 Apr 2013, 1:25 am
Say there is a person in your class who is very outgoing, speaks out a lot, but cannot keep a conversation with you because she takes everything you say very literally. She does not seem to be able to connect with anyone but likes to participate, always sits at the front of the class, and tries to answer any question asked by the teacher correctly. She also seems very direct and voices her opinions blatantly, whether agreeing or disagreeing with her classmates. Whenever you try to talk to her, she talks about class material, but nothing else. How would you perceive this person? Would you feel comfortable having this person in your study group?
The reason I am asking this question this way is because I behave this way in class and so does my best friend. I am curious as to how this would perceived among people my age. I've been intimidated to join study groups, etc. because I have gotten a sense of people excluding me and saying stuff like "now I'm smarter than you, haha" behind my back. I want to gauge as to how to explain to these people that I am not trying to be a know-it-all and that this is how I communicate. If I don't participate, I instantly start disengaging from the discussion. I feel very comfortable in structured situations like that and become very talkative because I can only comprehend conversations when they're literal and classroom discussions are pretty literal. I'm thinking some really bad thoughts but perhaps things aren't as bad as I think they are. But, during our next tutorial discussion, I would like to somehow convey that it is not my intention to come off this way. However, at this point, I do not yet want to directly disclose my diagnosis in class (it's risky), but I rather would like to describe some of my specific characteristics indirectly in a conversational manner.
Can you help me think of some strategies in terms of breaking through, considering that reading body language and implied meanings is almost impossible for me in a social situation? I just don't want to be barred from attending any study groups, etc, because after all, they could always tell me the wrong date & location and set me up, which would be a disaster if I bring my worker along. I have this paranoia because there seemed to be almost a conspiracy against a TA with Asperger's I had in my first year, and this class consists of similarly cliqueish girls.
And for now this is the last one I will reply to until someone else posts. I like this thread a lot. But I don't want to spam it. I just want to try to be helpful.
Honestly if I were in that class , and I am thinking back to when I was school age, I would like that type of person. But then that person kind of was me. I don't have AS but I did get ostracized and I did hear jealous comments that seemed competitive as if they wanted to do better than I did, when I never thought of it as a competition. Things similar to "now I'm smarter than you" - I remember overhearing (I was standing behind her but she didn't see me) one girl say "I did better than (my name) woohoo!" or something like that. It made me feel like the enemy. I wanted everyone to do well in other words; she just wanted to do better than me.
To answer your other question, about how to casually mention some of your social challenges, hmm. I'm going to think on this a moment.
It might be good to casually mention something when it happens. Instead of talking about Aspergers, you might say something like, you get a bit shy in social situations. You might use the word introverted, too. Unless they are mean or bullies they might even try to adapt their behavior somewhat, for your sake. By that I mean, instead of expecting you to be as chatty or outgoing as they are, they might accept you more as you already are. Don't blurt that out in the middle of an unrelated topic, but if someone sort of stares at you a long time or says something like "why aren't you talking," in other words if they criticize your social behavior, that's when to say something vague and casual like "I get shy in social situations." A lot of people have felt that way at least some of the time and can relate.
Also simply tell someone that seems nice, that you would like to start or join a study group with them, and ask their advice. A lot of people like to think their advice is valuable or their opinion is valued. Nod, but if you need something clarified, ask them to say it again, say something like "sorry I didn't catch all that."
Hope some of that helped and if you think of anything else just ask.
21 Apr 2013, 1:32 am
What do you do if someone badmouths a former boss that you really liked but it is an acquaintance doing the badmouthing who did not know the full picture?
Also, NT managers, do you give reference checks that really show the person's issues, like OCD? Can this bite you later?
It would depend who the someone was.
The more I know the person the more I might say. I would almost always try to gently put in something positive about that person into the conversation.
If the boss hurt them and they have a legitimate gripe then I would try to listen and be supportive, because that (when someone is venting about a hurt) is the wrong time to try to praise somebody.
I could answer better if the question had more detail.
After five years, my supervisor at a former job gives me an email to ask me for a reference. For an interview she may or may not have. So I call her back to get more of a feel for things. It said in the email that it was a library job, and for some reason I felt that creating programs was involved, which she was excellent at, and which she had in fact taught me very well to do myself! So I agreed, and then she badmouths our previous manager. Part of it, I can understand, as one of the staff was quite rude and was never corrected for it. Part of her problem stemmed from her OCD which was so severe that it nearly gave me a mental health crisis too. But our manager had kept me employed and she had a lot more going on in terms of her real job, which I tried to hint at, as our manager has a very full job and seriously does quite well for the total amount of things to do. But really, if it were not for our manager, I would have not been employed these last few years.
Anyway, the OCD that this supervisor had was nearly a mental health crisis for me. It was good in a way, because I was forced to learn some organization skills. But was detrimental though for a while. I almost became selectively mute because I was so confused and did not know how to handle so much unrelenting criticism without nary a positive comment for all of my efforts. One day I burst into tears about the way I had been corrected about the shelving of my program kits... not that the kits were messy but that they had been shelved 'handles in' instead of 'handles out'. I told her that I thought she hated me, which was the truth... back then, she hugged me and thanked me and basically said that she had seen them and that she would have fired me if I had not been struggling so hard, and that I had some real changes. I owe my skill set to her, but also have really negative memories about that contract with her (she left shortly after) and though I know she did not have any work jobs in the last five years due to being a mom, that if I was a real friend, she would have tried getting on touch a while ago (I tried some emailing, but the effort never came from her end to try contact).
21 Apr 2013, 1:46 am
Thank you for the detail.
I have a few thoughts on this and this is just my opinion.
It may be true that you learned a lot with a tough boss but it may also be true you would have learned even more with a fair yet disciplined boss. It sounds to me as if many of the criticisms were not completely necessary: at least, not necessary to be as strong or strident as it sounds like they were. In other words it sounds as if she often picked on tiny things that didn't matter, or came across too strongly.
Your own inherent sense of fairness is trying to find things to praise about her, and to put her behavior in a context in order to be completely fair. It sounds to me as if this boss was at the least, a very 'mixed bag.' It sounds as if she worked hard and had a lot to do but it also sounds as if she was unrelenting in her expectations and except on one occasion, not very forgiving.
A good boss will not drive their employees to the point of becoming selectively mute, or sad, or dejected, no matter what. A good boss is a good manager or good leader. A good manager or good leader knows their staff, knows the people who work for them, well enough to avoid such a thing happening. They tailor expectations and interactions accordingly. Therefore it should not have gotten to that point, were the boss truly a good boss.
A reference should not mention negative personality traits, I don't think. I would either say you do not feel comfortable giving a reference, or I would be brief and vague in the reference, and simply state that the person was your supervisor, the dates they worked there, and that they were responsible with meeting their personal goals. I would not, if it were me, say they were a good leader, because they do not sound like one, to me.
That is just my opinion. It is most important that you only say what you are comfortable saying. And I would avoid saying things like OCD because, if it's a diagnosis at least in the US that falls under Hippa laws and if it isn't a diagnosis it could sound like gossip.
I'm editing this post to add: Remember, you do not have any obligation to write a reference for this person, or for anyone. It's considered a favor and should only be done if you think very highly of them. It is perfectly okay (if you don't really want to write one), to tell them you are not comfortable with it, or to simply say, no, sorry.
21 Apr 2013, 3:15 am
Thanks, Popsicle!
I think I will go on the not too descriptive side of things, even if, horror of horrors, I should be contacted or something. I regret having said 'yes' without too much reflection, having thought it was more of an individual rather than team job that she was applying for. I was flattered to be asked, without really thinking straight.
And totally fair about the OCD remark. She herself had used the word 'anal' and had mentioned it as a problem off the bat. I do not now plan on using any of those words.
25 Apr 2013, 1:36 am
What would the best way for an Aspie to tell you that he has Aspergers? A lot of times I meet NT women that are nice and all but they misinterpret my cold gaze and lack of social congruency as stand offish and insecure, and thus refuse to date me. I feel if they know I have aspergers they'll be more prone to understanding how I work and seeing my true colors. I've told some women that I have Aspergers directly but it ends up making things even more awkward.
Hello Gerhardt. I am an NT who fell in love with an Aspie who now seems to be rejecting me. I was not told he was an Aspie until 4 months after dating him. I wished he would have told me up front that he was an Aspie. I would have taken things slower instead of jumping into the relationship. He courted me something fierce. He sent 24 red rose to me with a card that ALL MY LOVE, PATRICK. He sent me loving txt messages for months but now nothing. I have done alot of reading about Aspies. I asked if I could research the differences we have in our brain. I would not have rejected him as far as dating him but I would have taken things much slower before getting involved.
What I would like to know is why did he not share with me up front? I feel he should have let me know this fact before we got involved. I now feel like this relationship is onesided. I am not sure at this point how to even relate to him. I mean I knew there was something different about him when I fell madly in love with him but If I would have know some more about the Aspie difference I may not have taken our friendship to the next level. I now feel betrayed by him.
Help give me some advise. Thank you.
Hi TOFINE
I have just come to the realisation that my partner of 1 year has AS. In learning this, like you, I did a lot of reading of books, articles and watching YouTube clips by Tony Attwood to better educate myself about AS and how I can relate to and understand him better. From my understanding, perhaps early on in the relationship you were his "special interest" and he invested all of his time and effort into you. At this time, maybe in the past he had disclosed his AS status and it had resulted in him being rejected by a partner. Or perhaps, throughout out his life, he had experienced alienation and isolation because of it and wanted to avoid any repercussions? Based on the reading I have done and my own experience, he may now be acting in this way because of a few things: firstly, he may believe that he has your love, trust and understanding and therefore you aren't his "special interest" anymore and doesn't feel as though he needs to put in the same effort as before. Secondly, has anything changed between you? I found that when I was stressed and needing emotional support and reassurance, was when things flared up and he withdrew as a coping mechanism. Or perhaps he is stressed at work or not coping with things himself. Maybe write him a letter or an email to tell him how you are feeling and give him time to process this information. He will discuss it with you when he was ready and if it is written in a way in which you are explaining how you're feeling, he will be less likely to take it as a personal attack. To be totally honest, he may not even realise he has changed and how much it's affecting you. I hope this is helpful.
26 Apr 2013, 10:18 am
What would the best way for an Aspie to tell you that he has Aspergers? A lot of times I meet NT women that are nice and all but they misinterpret my cold gaze and lack of social congruency as stand offish and insecure, and thus refuse to date me. I feel if they know I have aspergers they'll be more prone to understanding how I work and seeing my true colors. I've told some women that I have Aspergers directly but it ends up making things even more awkward.
Hello Gerhardt. I am an NT who fell in love with an Aspie who now seems to be rejecting me. I was not told he was an Aspie until 4 months after dating him. I wished he would have told me up front that he was an Aspie. I would have taken things slower instead of jumping into the relationship. He courted me something fierce. He sent 24 red rose to me with a card that ALL MY LOVE, PATRICK. He sent me loving txt messages for months but now nothing. I have done alot of reading about Aspies. I asked if I could research the differences we have in our brain. I would not have rejected him as far as dating him but I would have taken things much slower before getting involved.
What I would like to know is why did he not share with me up front? I feel he should have let me know this fact before we got involved. I now feel like this relationship is onesided. I am not sure at this point how to even relate to him. I mean I knew there was something different about him when I fell madly in love with him but If I would have know some more about the Aspie difference I may not have taken our friendship to the next level. I now feel betrayed by him.
Help give me some advise. Thank you.
To Gerhardt, I know a little bit about this subject as at one point I was going to make a living giving relationship workshops for women. What you have described is a common withdrawal pattern (especially) in men when the relationship gets too close, and very probably has nothing at all to do with him being an aspie. If he sent you these beautiful roses and texts this means he was capable of doing that and still is, if he wants to..He was expressing what he felt, and it took effort, and he was able to do that and wanted to. Now he does not want to.
It is wise to wait before giving your heart to someone, as in the beginning everyone is on his or her best behavior, so a lot of romantic idealization can occur and people can get very swept up in it.
My advice for you is to withdraw your affection from him.. Do not try to analyze his brain function. To a woman, including myself, it feels good to do that kind of thing, but guys do not like it. Actually guys respond to distance. If you want to read about this, there are about a hundred books on this subject. The main point is for you to feel good and happy in the relationship, to take care of yourself and to have a life and interests outside of being with him. Do not be with a person who is not making you happy. If he asks why you are withdrawing you can simply tell him you no longer feel cherished in the relationship. I know it can be very painful emotionally, especially if you have had sex, as women bond much faster than men, generally speaking, which is why it is best not to have sex unless you really know someone.
He presumably did not tell you he was an aspie because he did not want to put you off by this info. At least he is not married:-) A guy could wait four months or even longer to tell you that, too..
17 May 2013, 10:45 am
My husband is the Aspie in our marriage and it's been a painful experience. Unfortunately, he's in denial. He was diagnosed last year after I pressured him to seek answers, so there is no question there, and he agrees that all the cool traits about Aspergers fit his profile (he even brags about his asperger super powers!), but he doesn't understand that it comes in a package. And he fights me every time I point out where aspergers is getting in the way. The last fight we had was when I told him I needed him to "sympathize". He has no sense of privacy, mine is very high. And it's hard for me to live with that. Anyway, bottom line was I asked him to try to understand how IF something was very important to him but I stomped all over it day in day out, THEN that would make him feel "X" (you feel "X" is his way of carrying on a conversation with me, when he doesn't understand what I may feel). He saidt that he would be infuriated. When I told him that's how I felt +/- about him neglecting my sense of privacy, he replied that it was my problem, my feelings, they were detached from him, he wasn't involved, so he had no reason to feel bad. And when I pointed out that I needed my husband to feel bad when he would see me cry and miserable, just out of love for me or something, I was talking to a wall. So anyone out there has a piece of avice for me? Obviously, it's not about the issue of privacy, it's about the lack of sympathy (I'm not talking about empathy, that's crazy talk) in our marriage. So far, NT-AS marriage has been a very lonely and unfair place to live.
17 May 2013, 8:47 pm
Can you explain to me what "cloud 9" means?
Hi Neonhusky,
When NTs say "cloud 9", or more specifically someone "being on cloud 9", it is an idiom meaning that they are very very happy. I think that the logic behind it is that if they were to rate their happiness on a scale of 0 to 9 -- with 0 being not happy at all -- they would rate their happiness a 9. The reference to "cloud" comes from the light feeling that being happy supposedly gives you. The implication is that you feel so light that you could float off the ground and into the clouds.
I hope this helps.
17 May 2013, 9:40 pm
I am an NT with a question for an AS.
I just ended a relationship with someone who I suspect is an Aspie. I made this conclusion from traits that I observed: shy/introverted, formal style of speaking, lack of eye contact, disorganized, does not "get" jokes, does not respond to texts unless I specifically ask a question, seems puzzled when I call to follow up, asks questions as to why I tell people things like "have a nice day", awkward gait, asks for "evidence" about my intuitions about people and situations, sees conversations as "debates", monotone voice, very direct opinions about observations, etc.
I really respect and care about him. However, he recently did something that potentially put my life in danger. I was so scared that I told him that his cynicism led him to be flippant with other people's vulnerabilities and that I never wanted to speak or see him again because my trust was 100% broken.
I feel very very guilty for saying what I did because I did not mean it. I was having my own meltdown and it was a fight-or-flight reaction from being so scared.
Although I do not want to be in a relationship, I would still like to be his friend. My question is how should I go about apologizing? Should I explain why I felt scared and why I responded the way I did? Should I also include something like a link to a video or a website to something I know he is interested in? If I send a long email, is there a certain way that I should write it to make sure that what I want to say isn't lost in the NT/AS translation? Should I ask him to tell me what he understands about what I told him about being scared?
I would really like your help because I feel sad about possibly hurting his feelings. My overactive NT imagination has me worrying that he might be in the middle of his own meltdown right now.
18 May 2013, 1:50 am
Greenbeans:
It's very hard to give advice to a stranger by internet while only knowing part of their relationship. Also I would never presume which action to tell someone to take in their relationship (I'm not saying you asked that) whether to stay or go.
I can only say that you must assess your priorities. You must claim what you need for your own sake. It does not sound like he will give you what you ask. You must take it then.
How deep is his own commitment? Does that make a difference to you? It is possible that if he understands the marriage could end due to his stubborn refusal to adapt to your needs, he will adapt to your needs in the end.
However it's possible he will never change his ways, and you will have to adapt to him while he does not expect to ever compromise or adapt to you. A relationship must go in two directions to work unless one is a masochist.
Marriage counselors usually do not understand about AS but there are some good books and websites out there which talk about AS/NT. The stress can cause physical breakdowns which is what some call "cassandra" which most people with AS dislike, but, whatever one calls it, it's a toxic situation.
I wish I had more advice for you than "soul searching" but really it comes down to you and what you choose to live with. If you have other options in life, ask yourself where would you be happiest.
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