Life is testing how fit your genes are for survival

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Life is not about anything, and if society considers me an unfit specimen it can go sodomise itself with a rusty screwdriver.

Oh, no. You'll be very, very dead. Just like everyone else ends up.

What about reading fiction? Does that boil down to a survival desire? Or listening to music, or watching television dramas?

Society treats women worse than men, even though women are better at surviving (longer life expectancy). So I don't think Aspies are treated badly because they are considered worthless because they are less likely to survive.
There are all sorts of laws to protect Aspies and most people see the value in these laws. Many Aspies get given money to live on rather than being expected to find employment (though obviously this is not universal). There are some people who actively dislike Aspies, and Aspies often find many simple things difficult, but the former is not a reflection of the worth of Aspies (there are also many racists, anti-Semites, Islamophobes, homophobes... but society at large thankfully recognises that all the discriminated minorities are as worthy as everyone else), and the latter also doesn't mean Aspies are less worthy, just differently able.

No, I wasn't making a statement with qualifications. Your DNA is not you. You're welcome to believe the only purpose in life is to pass on the DNA in your cells, but I like to believe there's more to life - to each person - than having children.

I'd wholeheartedly like to think so too. I've thought that for most of my life. But the more I learn about the world the less I believe in it. Seems like the world dictates that there is nothing called a soul, only a physical body with certain abilities determined by your DNA and environment.

I'm curious what this "more" is in your eyes?

For me the more is culture, which can pretty much extend into any aspect of life. Whether it`s the creation of technologies, traditions, music, art, ideas, educational concept, whatever that may possibly add to potential survival needs.

Again as I told you before I think your completely missing the concept of prosperity. It`s about ensuring the survival of as many generations of your kind as possible. For this to happen one would generally place a high value on as many creative endeavors as possible.

There are many good responses to this thread so far. It is interesting to come across this topic as it is one that I have been thinking a lot about lately. There are many people, ASD and NT who are not coping well with the direction that humankind is taking right now. I really don't think it has anything to do with being on the spectrum. As stated before, if you are alive, you are surviving. A theory that I have been considering lately is that ASD is actually a built in survival mechanism of the human race. The path that we are taking now is unsustainable and will not last. Humans are so competitive that we are destroying ourselves. "Survival of the fittest" may very well come down to not participating/competing in the current standard of living and initiating a shift toward a different paradigm.

Edit: To directly address the TS, "worth" is a relative concept. We all have different ideas of what is important in life and therefore our worth is determined by these personal views. Some may agree with your "worth" and some may not. IMO, it doesn't really matter that people may disagree as long as I feel good about meeting my own standard of worth.

Last edited by Burns on 24 Jun 2013, 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's not a soul, if that's what you think. However, DNA doesn't think. It doesn't have opinions. It doesn't have beliefs. It doesn't design buildings. It doesn't take pictures of the farthest reaches of the visible universe. It doesn't search for the Higgs Boson. It doesn't invent airplanes. It doesn't discover electricity. It doesn't split atoms. It's a blueprint, not a form of containment.

I also agree. If I wasn't fit for survival, I wouldn't be here right now. I'm considering starting a small business selling loom knitted hand balls.

This seems to me to be just your subjective thinking/feeling, but mostly feeling about whatever "soul"and "world" mean to you....it does sound like this DNA trip is for you a form of nihilism to try to compensate for your own loss of meaning......but nothing (impersonal DNA) does not compensate for a loss of meaning....without meaning there is no reason to live....it all becomes kind of senseless...there is sensation, but nothing is really that alive....a lot of people are struggling with this, to make sense out of their existences, especially young people....

I know I have a soul. I just don't know for sure what happens to it.

Hi guys, thanks for your answers.

I realize the negative view I presented on this has got to do with my perfectionism. I don't think I'm wrong about us trying to survive, however. Culture is just an extended, 'advanced' survival-form. The end-goal is still survival, for instance by making people feel good in their lives.

But instead of celebrating how well I'm doing at survival, I'm complaining it's not perfect. Perfectionism is still more of an issue for me than I thought. I know this is a not uncommon aspie-issue.

I do still think that I'm right when it comes to aspies being bullied. But this is "just" another aspect of life that isn't perfect.

But this advanced form, is pretty much the defining difference between us and other animals. And a large degree of this difference, contradicts what would be considered optimum survival needs. Altruism and creativity seem to be the half marks of any truly great culture, both of which seem totally opposed to the concept of survival.

Many altruistic people are altruistic because it increases their social status, not out of "pure" self-less altruism.

If giving money away did not give people a better conscience and always had to be done anonymously, I truly don't believe there would be the same amount of people doing it.

Altruism is just a more advanced way of improving your survival probability because it makes yourself feel good. Not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm just not buying that humans are anything special compared to animals. More intelligent and that's about it.

I think Oscar Wilde said that to live is the rarest thing in the world, most people just exist. Maybe that's where your thoughts stem from, you look around you and see that everybody else is content with just existing. I think we all have a choice between the two, but most make it without being aware of it, so they might not even understand, least acknowledge, that following their instincts is not necessarily covering ALL the options. To live is problematic and can be painful, while existing became a lot easier for most (at least in the developed world, and those who struggle to just exist usually can't afford the luxury of doing anything else).

Weather you breed or not you'll still die and quite a few manage to leave behind things that would outlive their offspring anyway. Your current doubts seem to be more of an existential nature and they won't be resolved by having kids. There's a thread around here about life having no meaning and a poster pointed that while there's no meaning to life from an objective or general point of view we can give it one. I noticed he was in his 70s and probably one who actually did it.

I'm not sure I understand some of the other things you say, how could you be "perfect" at surviving? Wouldn't you need to be immortal for that?

Wow, that's an inspiring post.

The perfectionistic thinking I tend to run into is wrong thinking. I think it's because of black-and-white thinking - either it's perfect or it's all wrong and doesn't matter. I know that's not true, it's Asperger-related thinking.

What do you think is the difference between living and just existing? Making truly conscious choices about how one wants to live one's life and not just do what you are "supposed" to do in the eyes of others, i.e. thinking of yourself as "completely free".

I tend to think life is simply about enjoying this testing of your genes, i.e. "celebrating" whatever good your genes could bring to the world. The difference between living and existing is then a matter of whether you choose to enjoy and explore the potential of your genes or you don't.

I get it, I've been there, but seem to have outgrown it to some extent. I've been more or less forced to, nobody knew about Aspergers back then and they cared even less than now about such things. But I now understand better what you've said about worth, if you're not perfect, you're worthless. Keep in mind that this makes us all equally worthless as we all fail by dying. If you want your cells to outlive you, you can become an organ donor.



I was very punishing with my body and appetites when young and only much later my wife taught me to enjoy them, a part of life no one should deny themselves as long as they don't become its slave. I never really cared about genetic heritage, maybe because my biological parents were complete degenerates. And you can't control what you pass on, it can be as well a talent or a crippling abnormality. I don't see my children as "being part of me" (or my parents) and I don't see myself in them even if we share some characteristics. I've always had the instinct to protect them, but I don't love them as much for being mine as for who they are as separate entities, individuals belonging to themselves, this love was born and became stronger in time as I've got to know them and share a significant history with them. I can't really grasp the idea of "living through them", I only provided a spermatozoon, that's all . Who for instance would call being in a comma for 10 years and dying without waking up "living"? Comatose people used to be referred to as "vegetables" or more politely being in a vegetative state, as it's hard for us to imagine "human" life without conciousness.



The more instinctual people are, the less open to the idea that life can be lived in more than one way (sustain yourself, mate, breed, die which with a few cultural variations translates more or less in go to school, get a job, get married, have kids, die). Those will often and openly sanction and shun people who cannot or will not follow the pattern, and they'll either despise them if they can't ("he's less then I am") or hate them if they won't ("he thinks he's better than me, he wants more and this means I have less"). Everything has a price and consequences, every little action and decision, and since you're the one who's going to pay it, the least you can do is understand what you decide and take responsibility even when you're forced into that decision. I only do what I'm "supposed to in the eye of others" if doing otherwise would cost me a price I'm not willing to pay. And paying a price also means evaluating what you get in return, for instance it might be worth to put up with the usual amount of BS in order to keep a job, or be shunned by people you don't want around anyway, but you shouldn't if someone is actually abusing you. Even this should tell you we cannot be "completely free", actually, no matter what we do our freedom is quite limited, we are restricted by our own physiological needs, by our neurology, by environment and yes, by society. If you want to live amongst others there are restrictions and also duties. I know it sounds crushing, but if you stay out of the "all of nothing" frame of mind, you realise that you still have options. For instance, I broke all ties with my biological family and lived abroad most of my adult life. I choose where I live and who's part of my life so at least I'm following rules I mostly agree with and even get to make some of them.

Beside, every time you go into a museum and look at something some guy made a few hundred or thousand years ago, you can see he found a better way to survive as what he created probably outlives his bloodline. And while most of us might not be museum material, everything you do leaves a mark in some way, both in your environment and in other people, I think someone here used the word blueprint. Maybe living begins with being aware of it and not leaving a "random" mark. I don't care that my son has the same eyes as I, I care much more to know that my thoughts might be of some value to him when I'm not around any more and you don't need to be related to someone to leave that kind of mark. Your post left a print here and people responded, maybe some day my son will ask the same questions and I'll remember your thoughts...

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way an optimist and I know how bad it can get. Life is much easier if you just exist. But you have Aspergers, so you're already an outsider and probably treated as such, and if you're already paying the price for not being like others, at least you could get something in return. I wish I could see this when I was younger, instead of wasting so many years to fear and anger.