First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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Just taken a look at that link.

Hmmm, he doesn't appear to get distraught when we end - he seems to be fine, busies himself and I don't hear from him, then maybe a month later, I get lots of messages and attention and he says he misses me and wants to do anything to make it work.

The young children bit is interesting though - he likes spending time with children (not in a weird way!). I am the same, but have just always had a good rapor with kids.

(we are UK based btw, not US)

The thing is, I am such an open, honest, loving, trustworthy person, I wonder why anyone would worry about me not returning their feelings etc... I always make it clear how much I dislike dishonesty and untrustworthiness in people...

Patience is definitely a key factor, but if you feel distant from him, then it may be to your benefit to sit down and explain exactly how you feel and why you feel that way (though you may have already done this). Perhaps you two can mutually agree upon some happy medium-- going out together or "Skyping" once a week, preferably on the same day each week, or whatever interval works best for the both of you.

It is true that pushing too much can cause some Aspies to retreat (my over-affectionate relatives learned this the hard way when I was a child...), but severing the connection completely can sometimes make us feel as though we screwed up yet another relationship. He still seems to want to have some connection; the tricky part can be figuring out how much to reach out, and he may not even know himself how much communication he can tolerate. Let him know that the option to communicate with you is always open and that he would be no imposition on you if you have not done this already (though it seems as though you already have; you seem very apt at communicating with him).

His anxiety in relating to you may be less to do with you, specifically, and more to do with his chronically socially-anxious nature. Regardless of how honest and open you are, his low-self esteem may prohibit him from trusting himself in terms of being "enough" for you. I do not have terribly much self-esteem myself, but what helps me retain the slightest inkling of it I have is feeling useful. Perhaps you could explain to him how useful he is to you and how much he does meet your needs; highlight specific times that his unique insight has helped you to see the world in a different way, how much you appreciated it when he helps you to solve a difficult problem, and how his company cures your loneliness. If he sees that he can and does meet your needs, then he may be more inclined to give himself another chance with being closer to you.

I am glad that I am of help to you.

Many thanks again Werewolf Poet,

I hope you don't mind that I have PM'd you, as my returned message had gotten quite long!



Appreciating all the advice...

A set of related questions for the thread:

A) When is tact socially effective, and when does using tact make you look weak? More explicitly, what exactly is tact, from an instrumental perspective?

B) When does backing down gain you support, and when will backing down backfire?

C) How do you gain the respect of others if you have nothing to offer them?

Hey ialdabaoth,

"A) When is tact socially effective, and when does using tact make you look weak? More explicitly, what exactly is tact, from an instrumental perspective?

B) When does backing down gain you support, and when will backing down backfire?

C) How do you gain the respect of others if you have nothing to offer them?"

Are these questions from an Aspie perspective or NT?

whooops, didn't finish that..

meant to put, I can't imagine anybody not having ANYTHING to offer...

Ahem, my humble attempt to answer these questions ...

A) I would take "tact" to mean trying not to harm or hurt anyone. Socially effective if you don't want to make enemies. Potentially ineffective if you want to be / stay in a circle perhaps - people I know seem to enjoy gossiping (no tact) about other people - I think it brings them together but it leaves me on the outside, as I don't like talking about people behind their backs.

B) Backing down may gain you support because it shows that you are taking other people's perspectives / points of view into consideration. If you never back down you may seem selfish / ignorant. But if you always back down you may seem like a walk-over or not too sure about your own opinions.

C) Not sure really, but I wouldn't say anyone has nothing to offer. There's always someone somewhere who would appreciate your help, whether it's intellectual / physical / spiritual. There are many people who seem to demand / command respect, when there doesn't seem to be anything special which they are bringing into the equation. I think that some people are naturally good at "leading" while others are better at "doing" - and respect isn't always mutual, although perhaps it should be.

Do you mean internally or externally? I.e., does someone have 'tact' if they perceive themselves to not be trying to harm or hurt anyone, or do they only have 'tact' if other people perceive them as not trying to harm or hurt anyone?

I believe that some people are tactless through no fault of their own - i.e. they do not intend to hurt someone. If a person does feel hurt by what someone says, they should voice it, so that the person who made the comment can learn that what they said was indeed tactless and can perhaps be more careful next time...

Do you believe it is possible to use accusations of 'tactlessness' as a social weapon? Do you believe that some people are judged more harshly than others - i.e., if the exact same behavior was performed by two different people, one would be considered 'funny' and the other 'tactless'?

hmmm, i guess it is.. another way of a person trying to make another look bad to make themselves feel better due to their own low self-esteem, unfortunately...

and yes, I do agree that some people would get away with saying the same thing, which another would not... people are strange creatures - in a group, act very much like sheep. I heard a quote once (in a movie I think!), that a "person" is very intelligent, but "people" are stupid.... I thought that very apt.

one person could make a very different decision when alone, than they would in front of other people....

not sure if the above is an answer to your questions! but just some of my views

Studies indicate that this is not actually correct - that in fact, in general aggressors have *higher* self-esteem than their victims.

Don’t want to discourage anybody but after a five year relationship with a girl diagnosed with Asperger it’s certainly not something I would recommend entering into. In this particular case there were also additional psychological problems that made it worse, such as a narcissistic and a paranoid personality disorder so all this together meant it was never smooth or easy for sure. Of course a person is much more than what is indicated by some diagnosis and I loved this girl, but I can’t do anything else now than conclude and submit to you that her mental problems really ruined the relationship, at least put a terrible strain on it that was almost impossible to handle.

We had a difficult time discussing things, normal inputs and nuances in a conversation were hard and almost impossible for her to accept. You had to agree with her a 100% right away, otherwise she felt threatened and began talking about here rights. She could only see things as either black or white.

She was totally uninterested in learning about facts. Whenever I tried she wouldn't listen.

She had certain things she always kept repeating, for instance that she’d never be a slave whatever that meant, or pointing at all the evil people, It is adequate to describe her emotionally as a child, a 12 year old.

She had a difficult time socially in the sense that she easily got into brawls with people. However she wasn’t like people with Asperger’s usually are described, quiet and shy, not interacting with people. In fact she was just the opposite, extremely talkative and energetic. She could talk very well but she couldn’t really listen.

Sexually it wasn't that good since she just focused on her pleasure and never on mine. She basically just wanted me to screw her without really having a mutual experience, with caresses and such things.

She was diagnoses with Asperger during our relationship so I know that she has it.

Another thing, as I mentioned, was the paranoid personality disorder which resulted in delusions and totally absurd things, how the whole society was after here, conspiracies and the like. Don’t think I have to say much more about these.

I write this because a relationship like this will slowly but surely destroy your confidence and it will change you into something that you’re not. This has been my experience.

For those of you with Asperger syndrome, how should an NT behave in a relationship like this? Is it possible to salvage?

For the NTs here, is this someting that you recognize in a relationship with a partner with Asperberger?

I might describe the relationship further if there is someone who wants that.

There's a lot of talk about Aspies being inadvertently tactless. But what about the opposite? With both (neurotypical) children and adults I notice there is a lot of saying things that, if written down, would read as extremely cruel. The words, even when lies, seem to be experienced by the neurotypical speaker as perfectly justified by the situation.

If they actually think about what they have said or done, they may well change, at least for a time. Or not.

I keep wondering how Aspies come in for so much criticism, since they often lacked intent to hurt and the tactless comment of an Aspie is not more hurtful than the angry neurotypical lashing out.

This is not for you to say. I made my best describing the negative aspects of the relationship I had for five years and if you suggest I was cruel doing that it doesn't really matter to me. I'm not cruel and have never been cruel.

That's because social power is the actual determinant of tact, not behavior. Tactless behavior is often just a subset of "being uppity".