Gender double standard and Autism
galvatron
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 74
Location: Tarkon Galtos
I'm not trying to say that women have it easier in general, but society does expect men to be more aggressive socially than men. People often suggest "why don't you just date a woman with Asperger's?", overlooking the fact that most Aspie women don't have as much trouble attracting, dating, and marrying NT men. For instance, Teasaidh mentioned a husband is this very thread.
And from reading her posts, it seems that Sweetleaf is a lot more dysfunctional than I am (no offense). I don't have PTSD or anything like that. I'm simply a little shy around new people, I get nervous when trying to talk to attractive women, I like unusual and "uncool" things like comic books and sci-fi, while more popular things like sports and music hold little or no interest to me, I'm a very logical and analytical thinker, ans I dislike religion. I've been suffering from chronic depression, but I'm ale to hold a job and support myself financially without assistance. In fact, there have been many women who have found me fun and charming, but they have all insisted that like me only as a friend. My problem is that, in our society, a man is expected to walk straight up to a woman and wow her with poetry. That's why players and pick-up artists are so successful; they have the experience to know how to tell women what they want to hear. While women pretty much just have to be born female. If you've ever watched Animal Planet, you will remember seeing the males of various animal species having to perform elaborate dances of some form or other to attract the females, while female don't have to do anything to attract the males. This is why having AS (with the exception of severe cases) does not affect a woman's ability to attract men, while it does affect a man's ability to attract women.
And just to clarify, this topic is not meant in any way as an attack on women. I'm simply stating my observations. The reason I feel this is relevant is because people often suggest that I date other Aspies, not taking into account the fact female Aspies have little trouble dating male NTs, and thus are not any more likely to date Aspies than NT women are.
This crap again???
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galvatron
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 74
Location: Tarkon Galtos
This crap again???
Could you perhaps explain your reasoning here (as I did), or are you just going to leave us with nothing more than an emotional kneejerk response?
Females have more pressure to look perfect, we can't show a single hair on our legs and other parts of the body (except on our head), otherwise we face ridicule, so we have to be really brave and extremely confident if we choose not to shave. But females can get away more with being shy, unconfident and introverted, and I think it's easier for females Aspies to find a boyfriend than it is for Aspie males.
Males have less pressure to look perfect, younger/middle-aged males can go out looking scruffy (collars up and ripped trousers) and still get young females thinking they are nice. Also men can have the choice to shave their body or not, and so either way is socially acceptable. Also, although having long hair on the head is obviously more common in females, a male with long hair on his head still doesn't seem to get ridiculed by his peers, like a female would if she chose not to shave her legs or armpits. But I know that females seem to prefer more confidence in a man (I know I do), and males do have more pressure to appear ''tough'', where as females are allowed to show more emotions like crying, etc. It is harder for Aspie males to find a girlfriend than it is for Aspie females.
I think it is hard for both genders on the spectrum to find and keep friends though. Well it obviously depends on the type of person, but not on the gender so much.
That's my word said about it anyway. Remember, it's just from a UK society point of view.
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whirlingmind
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Age: 57
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And from reading her posts, it seems that Sweetleaf is a lot more dysfunctional than I am (no offense). I don't have PTSD or anything like that. I'm simply a little shy around new people, I get nervous when trying to talk to attractive women, I like unusual and "uncool" things like comic books and sci-fi, while more popular things like sports and music hold little or no interest to me, I'm a very logical and analytical thinker, ans I dislike religion. I've been suffering from chronic depression, but I'm ale to hold a job and support myself financially without assistance. In fact, there have been many women who have found me fun and charming, but they have all insisted that like me only as a friend. My problem is that, in our society, a man is expected to walk straight up to a woman and wow her with poetry. That's why players and pick-up artists are so successful; they have the experience to know how to tell women what they want to hear. While women pretty much just have to be born female. If you've ever watched Animal Planet, you will remember seeing the males of various animal species having to perform elaborate dances of some form or other to attract the females, while female don't have to do anything to attract the males. This is why having AS (with the exception of severe cases) does not affect a woman's ability to attract men, while it does affect a man's ability to attract women.
And just to clarify, this topic is not meant in any way as an attack on women. I'm simply stating my observations. The reason I feel this is relevant is because people often suggest that I date other Aspies, not taking into account the fact female Aspies have little trouble dating male NTs, and thus are not any more likely to date Aspies than NT women are.
Did you even read any of the information I gave links for? Your one subjective experience does not speak for all males:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/magaz ... d=all&_r=0
And that doesn't even account for the number of marriage breakdowns where the NT husband thought he was getting something that he wasn't.
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neilson_wheels
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Players and PUA may have a "high success rate" with women but the majority of those who do use these techniques target women who are similarly shallow and vacuous. If you believe this and could tolerate an air head type relationship then all you need to do is "man up" and read a couple of books apparently.
I have not only seen animal planet but also studied animal behaviour too. Yes, there are remnants of courtship displays in modern society. There are also examples of aggressive competition, territorial display and mate guarding in almost every single bar and nightclub. If you want comparisons of human and animal behaviour then you should look at our closest evolutionary relatives. The Chimpanzee whose group structure is patriarchal and determined by violence, and the Bonobo which is matriarchal and sexually based.
I never was able to have any serious relationship and just had a couple of boyfriends that lasted a few months in my teens. The only "advantage" I had from being a woman was that I could dress up sexy, go places where there were horny guys, and have the opportunity to have sex, assuming that I didn't mind it being with a stranger that I would never see again.
That and people think it's slightly less weird that I don't work and live with my mother. The stigma for that is a little less for woman but it's still there as people have told my mother that she should make me get a job or kick me out.
galvatron
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 74
Location: Tarkon Galtos
Males have less pressure to look perfect, younger/middle-aged males can go out looking scruffy (collars up and ripped trousers) and still get young females thinking they are nice. Also men can have the choice to shave their body or not, and so either way is socially acceptable. Also, although having long hair on the head is obviously more common in females, a male with long hair on his head still doesn't seem to get ridiculed by his peers, like a female would if she chose not to shave her legs or armpits. But I know that females seem to prefer more confidence in a man (I know I do), and males do have more pressure to appear ''tough'', where as females are allowed to show more emotions like crying, etc. It is harder for Aspie males to find a girlfriend than it is for Aspie females.
I think it is hard for both genders on the spectrum to find and keep friends though. Well it obviously depends on the type of person, but not on the gender so much.
That's my word said about it anyway. Remember, it's just from a UK society point of view.
You might note, that simply shaving your legs is much easier than having to constantly project confidence despite over years of repeated failures.
Also, I live in America, so that's the society I have to deal with. Whether or not its easier for men in the UK is something I do not know.
whirlingmind
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galvatron
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 74
Location: Tarkon Galtos
And from reading her posts, it seems that Sweetleaf is a lot more dysfunctional than I am (no offense). I don't have PTSD or anything like that. I'm simply a little shy around new people, I get nervous when trying to talk to attractive women, I like unusual and "uncool" things like comic books and sci-fi, while more popular things like sports and music hold little or no interest to me, I'm a very logical and analytical thinker, ans I dislike religion. I've been suffering from chronic depression, but I'm ale to hold a job and support myself financially without assistance. In fact, there have been many women who have found me fun and charming, but they have all insisted that like me only as a friend. My problem is that, in our society, a man is expected to walk straight up to a woman and wow her with poetry. That's why players and pick-up artists are so successful; they have the experience to know how to tell women what they want to hear. While women pretty much just have to be born female. If you've ever watched Animal Planet, you will remember seeing the males of various animal species having to perform elaborate dances of some form or other to attract the females, while female don't have to do anything to attract the males. This is why having AS (with the exception of severe cases) does not affect a woman's ability to attract men, while it does affect a man's ability to attract women.
And just to clarify, this topic is not meant in any way as an attack on women. I'm simply stating my observations. The reason I feel this is relevant is because people often suggest that I date other Aspies, not taking into account the fact female Aspies have little trouble dating male NTs, and thus are not any more likely to date Aspies than NT women are.
Did you even read any of the information I gave links for? Your one subjective experience does not speak for all males:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/magaz ... d=all&_r=0
And that doesn't even account for the number of marriage breakdowns where the NT husband thought he was getting something that he wasn't.
First of all: that was a study conducted in a different society and culture than the one I live in.
Second: by the researchers' own admission, they did not have a big enough sample to reach accurate results.
neilson_wheels
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galvatron
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 74
Location: Tarkon Galtos
That's still more than I'll ever get.
Sweetleaf
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Age: 34
Gender: Female
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Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,911
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
That's still more than I'll ever get.
I'd say sex isn't really the greatest thing ever, especially if its with someone who you end up not being able to stay in a relationship with for any length of time.
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We won't go back.
I think his point is that female aspies can have sex and form relationships where as male aspies can not.
Not all female aspies are capable of that.
I agree with that.
Not all females with Asperger's are able to form relationships.
I am a female and I can't do that. I've never had a relationship, I've never dated or had sex, and no male has ever liked me.
I am completely unable to behave in a different way, "copy" others and I don't know how I could do to be attractive to others.
Also, I am avarage-looking, maybe if I was beautiful people would like me more, but that would probably only help me to get sex, and not a real relationship.
I don't relate to those articles I read online about the difference between males with AS and females with the same condition. I am not able to copy other females and look "typical". I relate much more to the "classical" description of Asperger's.
Also, I've never felt the so-called society's pressure on me, that is what most women and girls I know feel pretty much.
I don't wear make-up, don't wear "sexy" clothes (they are too tight and I have no intention of torturing myself by wearing them) and don't really try to look "attractive" to others. I've always condidered my own comfort and desires more important than other people's thoughts or feelings.
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