Can you have AS traits, but not be an Aspie?

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Joined: 25 Aug 2013
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30 Sep 2013, 4:07 pm

You can be on the spectrum and not have every trait. There are threads here where people on the spectrum describe there NT traits. You can be an NT and have Autistic traits.

There is no such thing as "Real Autism" . You either are autistic or you are not. There is a matter of high and low functioning autism. It bothers me that this notion of "real autism" seems to be spreading in the public and even to psychologists apparently. It demeans the real difficulties of people who are high functioning autistics. Nobody is denying the difficulties faced by low functioning autistics are much greater then those who are high functioning. But if the "real autism" idea gains a foothold it will take us back 30 years to a time where the real difficulties of high functioning autistics were summarily dismissed as laziness or an excuse.

This is why I recommend going to a specialist if you are able to. You might have to travel some distance and you will pay more but if you can swing it is worth it. Some General Practitioners are good but I have heard and read story after story like this. You go to somebody like this and they make you actually go backwards. IN MY OPINION it better to settle for a reputable online test then go to a General Practitioner if you can not afford or can not get to a specialist.

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Willard
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30 Sep 2013, 4:30 pm

Aspendos wrote:

Willard wrote:

In the end, Autism is a neurological dysfunction, NOT A SET OF BEHAVIORAL QUIRKS. The atypical behaviors are the result of a SENSORY PROCESSING DISORDER and that can be empirically tested. Any Mental Health Professional who makes a declaration or diagnosis of AS or NOT AS without testing you for atypical sensory processing is a jagoff who is not doing their job.

No one can determine whether you have High Functioning Autism or not until they have tested your BRAIN and that can be done with a series of simple tests to determine whether or not your gears are turning at the same speed as a normal brain's do.

That's not actually true either. AS/ASD is not a sensory processing disorder. AS/ASD is a developmental disorder. Neither the DSM-5 nor the ICD-10 require sensory issues as a symptom, but sensory processing disorder is often (not always) comorbid with AS/ASD.

He-loOOoOo - the "developmental" impairments are a RESULT of the faulty sensory processing. Autistic Behaviors don't appear out of thin air, they are caused as a reaction to something.

It's easy to read about a behavior and say "Hey - I do that!" It's another thing entirely to ask yourself "WHY do I do that?" But if you simply look at the behaviors and reactions described by members here over a period of several years, it becomes patently obvious why, because they ALL describe the same internal sensations and emotional responses and they are all directly attributable to sensory processing issues.

Even Autism Speaks, with whom I rarely see eye-to-eye, describes Autism as a sensory processing disorder. Look at every video on YouTube made by Autistic people to demonstrate to the NT world what Autism FEELS like and they ALL are depicting it as a sensory processing problem. Every "developmental" problem or "behavioral quirk" associated with High Functioning Autism can be explained within the context of sensory processing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M20DIK1Yt3A[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plPNhooUUuc[/youtube]

ritualdrama
Toucan
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30 Sep 2013, 4:33 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:

Your so-called psychologist needs to find a new profession. And why are they so quick to slap an ADD/ADHD label on everybody?

Probably because it gives them an excuse to infect you with their FDA drugs.

skibum
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30 Sep 2013, 5:33 pm

I don't think meltdowns and high intelligence are actually required to be Aspie. Neither is the opinion of a psychologist who does not know what she is talking about.

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Opi
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30 Sep 2013, 5:36 pm

skibum wrote:

I don't think meltdowns and high intelligence are actually required to be Aspie. Neither is the opinion of a psychologist who does not know what she is talking about.

/slamdunk

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katkore
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30 Sep 2013, 5:53 pm

The original title is a little misleading, at first I thought "can you bark yet not be a dog? WOOF! :lol: "

but since it's a more serious matter then that... yes, you can most definitely have AS traits and not be an Aspie, until you do not fall in the criteria. I've had a look at DSM-5 and there are parts in there where you have to fit in to fit the criteria with like 3 of the following or 2 of the following, let's say you fit in 2 and 2 you're very likely to have an AS-like way of thinking yet not fall in the criteria for help purposes.

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Aspendos
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30 Sep 2013, 5:54 pm

Willard wrote:

Developmental disorder and sensory processing disorder are distinct psychological/psychiatric terms used in the diagnostic manuals for different diagnoses. They are not interchangeable and they don't mean the same. If you use sensory processing disorder in a sense other than that of the diagnostic manuals you owe us a clear and precise definition. A video or two won't do. All I've learned by reading here about people's experiences with sensory overload is that there's a wide range and consequently no clear and precise definition and that some people on the spectrum seem to experience it and others don't or to a much lesser degree. It's not a diagnostic requirement.

If indeed autism is a neurological difference one is born with it, i.e. autism is there from the beginning; it is not "caused" by anything other than one's brain structure (which is different from those people called neurotypical) and possibly the genes one inherits or whatever other prenatal reason may be uncovered in the future. That's not "appear[ing] out of thin air".

katkore
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30 Sep 2013, 6:07 pm

Aspendos wrote:

Ditto!

Wikipedia:

Quote:

Sensory processing disorder or SPD is a group of neurological disorders in which the neurological process known as multisensory integration[1] fails to organize input coming from multiple modalities, such as proprioception, vision, auditory system, tactile, olfactory, vestibular system, interoception, or taste; in order to adequately function. Different people experience a wide range of difficulties when processing input coming from a variety of senses. For example, some people find wool fabrics itchy and hard to wear while others don't and some individuals might experience movement sickness while riding amusement park games while their friends are having fun. However, Sensory processing disorder is characterized by significant problems to organize sensation coming from the body and the environment and manifested by difficulties in the performance in one or more of the main areas of occupation: productivity, leisure and play[2] or activities of daily living.[3]
Previously known as Sensory Integration, Sensory processing was defined by Anna Jean Ayres[4][5] who was both an occupational therapist and an educational psychologist[6] in 1972 as "the neurological process that organizes sensation from one's own body and from the environment and makes it possible to use the body effectively within the environment".

Quote:

Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger disorder (AD), is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. It differs from other autism spectrum disorders by its relative preservation of linguistic and cognitive development. Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and atypical (peculiar, odd) use of language are frequently reported.[1][2]

Quote:

The autism spectrum or autistic spectrum describes a range of conditions classified as pervasive developmental disorders in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). Pervasive developmental disorders include autism, Asperger syndrome, pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS), childhood disintegrative disorder, and Rett syndrome, although usually only the first three conditions are considered part of the autism spectrum.[1] These disorders are typically characterized by social deficits, communication difficulties, stereotyped or repetitive behaviors and interests, and in some cases, cognitive delays.

They are two distinct things. If sensory processing disorder is not considered a pathology per say and it is more likely a symptom of something else, this something may not be an Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Confusion may be caused in that many of those on the Autism Spectrum Disorder show Sensory Processing Disorder among other symptoms, still the Sensory Processing Disorder is a too generalized symptom to be associated with the Autism Spectrum in an exclusive way.

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katkore
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30 Sep 2013, 6:19 pm

I now found the interesting paragraphs:

Quote:

Relationship to other disorders

Because comorbid conditions are common with sensory integration issues, a person may have other conditions as well.People who receive the diagnosis of sensory integration dysfunction may also have signs of anxiety problems, ADHD,[39] food intolerances, and behavioral disorders and other disorders.

Autistic spectrum disorders and difficulties of sensory processing

Sensory processing disorder is a common comorbidity with autism spectrum disorders.[40][41][42][43] Although responses to sensory stimuli are more common and prominent in autistic children and adults, there is no good evidence that sensory symptoms differentiate autism from other developmental disorders.[44] Differences are greater for under-responsivity (for example, walking into things) than for over-responsivity (for example, distress from loud noises) or for seeking (for example, rhythmic movements).[45] The responses may be more common in children: a pair of studies found that autistic children had impaired tactile perception while autistic adults did not.[46]
The Sensory Experiences Questionnaire has been developed to help identify the sensory processing patterns of children who may have autism.[47][48]

SPD and ADHD

It is speculated that SPD may be a misdiagnosis for persons with attention problems. For example, a student who fails to repeat what has been said in class (due to boredom or distraction) might be referred for evaluation for sensory integration dysfunction. The student might then be evaluated by an occupational therapist to determine why he is having difficulty focusing and attending, and perhaps also evaluated by an audiologist or a speech-language pathologist for auditory processing issues or language processing issues. Similarly, a child may be mistakenly labeled "Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)" because impulsivity has been observed, when actually this impulsivity is limited to sensory seeking or avoiding. A child might regularly jump out of his seat in class despite multiple warnings and threats because his poor proprioception (body awareness) causes him to fall out of his seat, and his anxiety over this potential problem causes him to avoid sitting whenever possible. If the same child is able to remain seated after being given an inflatable bumpy cushion to sit on (which gives him more sensory input), or, is able to remain seated at home or in a particular classroom but not in his main classroom, it is a sign that more evaluation is needed to determine the cause of his impulsivity.

Other comorbidities

Various conditions can involve SID, such as schizophrenia,[49][50][51] succinic semialdehyde dehydrogenase deficiency,[52] primary nocturnal enuresis,[53] prenatal alcohol exposure, learning difficulties[17] and autism,[54][55][56] as well as people with traumatic brain injury[57] or who have had cochlear implants placed.[58] and may have genetic problems such as Fragile X syndrome. Sensory integration dysfunction is not considered to be on the autism spectrum.

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Marybird
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30 Sep 2013, 8:31 pm

Aspendos wrote:

Willard wrote:

He-loOOoOo [/i]- the "developmental" impairments are a RESULT of the faulty sensory processing. Autistic Behaviors don't appear out of thin air, they are caused as a reaction to something.

It's easy to read about a behavior and say "Hey - I do that!" It's another thing entirely to ask yourself "WHY do I do that?" But if you simply look at the behaviors and reactions described by members here over a period of several years, it becomes patently obvious why, because they ALL describe the same internal sensations and emotional responses and they are all directly attributable to sensory processing issues.

Even Autism Speaks, with whom I rarely see eye-to-eye, describes Autism as a sensory processing disorder. Look at every video on YouTube made by Autistic people to demonstrate to the NT world what Autism FEELS like and they ALL are depicting it as a sensory processing problem. Every "developmental" problem or "behavioral quirk" associated with High Functioning Autism can be

Developmental disorder and sensory processing disorder are distinct psychological/psychiatric terms used in the diagnostic manuals for different diagnoses. They are not interchangeable and they don't mean the same. If you use sensory processing disorder in a sense other than that of the diagnostic manuals you owe us a clear and precise definition. A video or two won't do. All I've learned by reading here about people's experiences with sensory overload is that there's a wide range and consequently no clear and precise definition and that some people on the spectrum seem to experience it and others don't or to a much lesser degree. It's not a diagnostic requirement.

If indeed autism is a neurological difference one is born with it, i.e. autism is there from the beginning; it is not "caused" by anything other than one's brain structure (which is different from those people called neurotypical) and possibly the genes one inherits or whatever other prenatal reason may be uncovered in the future. That's not "appear[ing] out of thin air".

Sensory processing disorder is caused by an abnormality in brain structure, as is executive dis-function and other developmental impairments common in autism.

The differences in brain structure that cause autism symptoms may be the result of many factors, which can be hereditary, environmental, genetic mistakes or a combination. There may be many types of autism that are diagnosed by the same set of symptoms.

Getting a diagnoses of autism depends on whether or not the symptoms are disabling.
If your symptoms are not disabling, or you don't have enough symptoms, you may not get a diagnoses of autism.

Currently you are diagnosed by diagnostic tests and symptoms that may have many different causes and may or may not be enough for a diagnosis and are also dependent on the subjective judgment the diagnostician.

All that considered, you may have autism symptoms and not have autism, may have autism symptoms and not have a diagnoses, you may have a diagnoses with or without enough qualifying criteria.

Last edited by Marybird on 30 Sep 2013, 8:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

skibum
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30 Sep 2013, 8:36 pm

And your psychologist might just be a moron. I once had a psychiatrist tell me that even though I have meltdowns and sensory issues and everything else, I could not possibly be autistic because autistic people don't have emotions. And they get paid so much more than I ever could. Go figure.

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btbnnyr
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30 Sep 2013, 9:24 pm

Yes, you can have autistic traits, but not be autistic.

Many people have autistic traits, but are not autistic.

Broad Autism Phenotype (BAP) is term for people who have autistic traits, but are not autistic.

iParents are BAP, and so are most of iRelatives.

(change topic)

Sensory perception in autism is important area of research, but understudied, so we don't know or understand much about sensory perception in autism, and we don't have specific assessments of sensory perception in autism.

However, many studies have reported atypical sensory perception in autism in negative and positive directions compared to controls.

Sensory perception is my favorite area of neuroscience.

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AA_Hamilton
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01 Oct 2013, 2:00 am

Hi! I'm on the same dilemma too. Im also looking for answers.

Pardon me if I plug myself in. I'm new here, Im desperately curious about if I had Asperger's. To those who clinical have it I hope you take time to read a post I made. Please comment your thoughts about the given facts about me if you have time to spare. Thank you so much. Since I'm new I can't put links here. It is in my profile. Thanks again.

Pogue333
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01 Oct 2013, 3:16 am

Hello......I've taken a few AS tests and come up somewhere in the middle.
The reason I took the test is because my AS boyfriend recognized quite a few of the traits in me.
I get the impression that it's harder to diagnose AS in women because a lot of the "traits' are less severe than in AS men.
I'm still not 100% sure though but it does answer alot of questions about why I feel so different to the average person
though

Shellfish
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01 Oct 2013, 7:36 am

I know several people who although aren't autistic, they are 'very left-brained'

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BigSister
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01 Oct 2013, 7:48 am

Yes, definitely possible. I myself am at least BAP. Although using labels in a spectrum is tricky. Because I have a lot stronger AS tendencies than most BAP people, even, but I'm still not quite AS, and I find I still lack an accurate word to pinpoint exactly where I fall in the spectrum...and I always will because it is a spectrum, after all, and you can't have individual words for every single place in that continuum.

But I digress. As everyone else said, your psych used some terrible logic, which is completely untrue. My advice would be to see someone else who deals with autism frequently...preferably someone who got their degree more recently because myths seem to persist even more so in older generations.

In the meanwhile, you can do what I do and say that you're at least BAP.

Good luck!

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