Autism Confusion

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I am the OP, my life has been pretty much like yours.

My original question wasn't really so much about people who look like they are doing well, but are struggling under the surface - it was inspired more by people who make posts that seem insulted when some of us talk about how badly we've been treated because those posters find it easy to get along in society and they find that they have no problem understanding people or making friends. They seem to go so far as to think that because life has been different for us, we are "downers" or obsessed with our Autism and that's why we have so much trouble.

Thanks. I got the quote wrong (but I hope it does not invalidate the gist of my message. I do not think it does..Your version is the correct one and I was looking for this on line and couldn't find it when I first used this quote on WP a few months ago. You have said some interesting things in your message about remembering which I would like to respond to, but no time right now....I will pm you when and where I do....

To Wozeree, I just read your most recent message and was astounded to see this is what you intended your thread to be about. I read the original message entirely differently. I thought you to be questioning the idea that not being able to learn social cues is genetic:-) more on this later, too...

Well when people started responding, I became interested in their POVs. Maybe a lot of people didn't understand what I was saying (woe is me). That was what originally inspired me, but I've learned a lot from the responses whether they understood that or not. While I totally understood that Autism is a spectrum and different people have different talents and levels of success, I did think that the one commonality was that ALL autistic people, like me, were unable to read virtually any social cues at all. It's enlightening to me to find out that's not really the case for everyone.

I guess even people who say they always make friends are somehow having some kind of trouble or they wouldn't be having Autism. They just sound like they aren't the way they describe themselves.

I hear people with more severe disabilities make friends easier and are accepted more easier and people treat them better. People who are higher functioning have it harder because people can't see they have a disability, they look too normal for anyone to know and have it be that obvious. I also noticed this in my childhood. I would see kids with disabilities get treated better and had friends and I had to be treated different and be rejected by my own friends. Even a girl with Down's Syndrome I was friends with had respect. She didn't have friends but kids still respected her and left her alone and she could get away with behavior that isn't nice. me, I didn't get away with it and kids would just get mad at me and call me mean. I couldn't understand how kids who are different could be so normal and I was normal but couldn't be normal. Mom told me in junior high and high school those kids were so different the school had to help them and kids left them alone but me, I look like everyone else and I don't look like I have anything wrong with me. But once I left high school, all the bad treatment has seemed to stop so it surprises me how people on here can still run into a bunch of people who have not grown up yet or are they exaggerating? I did run into someone last year and she was condescending towards me and I thought it was all in my head but it turned out I wasn't imagining it because I over heard my mother telling my father she didn't like how the real estate person treated me and she was weird and my dad said I probably asked too many questions and she didn't like it. I tell my husband she never left high school because that was the sort of treatment I got when i was growing up and in high school. The woman looked to be in her 60s and she acted like she was still in high school.

Perhaps people on this forum who can get along with people are more disabled or more severe while the ones who get bad treatment from people look normal or are higher functioning.

Just wondering, am I one of these people you are talking about? If I am I apologize because I don't remember ever making any posts to that effect. Nor do I remember ever thinking that way about anyone. I don't know if you consider me one of these people and I hope you don't because that kind of thing would go completely against the nature of the very core of what I believe and who I am as a human being. And it would hurt me very much if I ever came across that way. So if I came across that way in any of my posts, please accept my absolute and sincere apologies. And if anyone else felt that way about me please accept my apologies also. I would never ever wish to feel that way about anyone. Nor would I ever wish to give the impression that I did.

No - when I made the original post I was actually responding to a specific post somebody made, but I didn't want to call them out because I was trying to understand what was going on and I thought that would just start a fight as opposed to me finding out what they were talking about. The post I was responding to was not yours, but I have seen others (not you) make similar posts.

You are very upbeat and try to see the positive in people, which in my opinion is a very good thing. The reason I tried to think of you originally was not because you write posts like that but because I know you are married and have friends, so I thought about you.

I really enjoy reading posts by people (you skibum) are not the only one - who have a positive outlook on life. I just think that it's not helpful to be on an autism website where people come to discuss problems related to autism and have an attitude that "you are victimizing yourself." But having a positive outlook and saying that are two very different things.

But to League Girl - to answer your question - I get along with a lot of people on a superficial level. I don't actually fight with people often. But I have often been targeted by people who are just nasty. I think it has something to do with what you said about not looking so ill that they understand I don't read social cues. They think I'm just doing things on purpose (and when that happens, I honestly can't blame them for being frustrated). If I don't understand them, it's hard for me to demand that they understand me all the time.

But I also attract bullies who know that I am low status due to my social problems - and I think they feel that if I were to complain about them they could just say, YOU KNOW HOW SHE IS. Or something like that.

Also, I do tend to say things to people's face that most people I work with will only say behind their backs and people see that as confrontational. I see it as having enough respect to say it to your face so you know what my problem with you is. Society just doesn't work that way and they think I'm a malcontent (I think). Although I really hold my tongue a lot.

Oh, thank you so much for clarifying Wozeree. I was nervous that I might have offended or hurt people without knowing it and I always feel bad if I do that accidentally. Sometimes I do hurt people unknowingly because I don't always understand communication clearly. I guess we all have moments like that. So I wanted to be sure and apologize in case I might have done something that I did not realize I did. But thank you for putting my nervousness to rest.

I agree with you. I think that we all have a hard time whether we are LFA or HFA or anything in between. And being on one extreme of the Spectrum or the other each person's challenges are challenging to him or her. So it's not right or fair to look down on people because their challenges might be different from ours. We really need to support one another the best we can. And there are many things that people who are LFA can do much better than I can. But being different from someone never makes me better or worse, just different.

I wish that the people you are referring to would support the rest. It's so stressful that here on a site like this where so many, including myself, come to have a place where people can relate to me and we can support each other that there are those who cause more stress by not being supportive. I find that I come here when real life is overwhelming and I hope that everyone would feel like they can do that too.

But thank you for helping me rest assured. And I am glad that I can be an encouragement here. It is so important for me to be able to find encouragement here and I want to be a source of encouragement for others also.

[I know this was a comment to someone else, wozeree, but you did respond to my post in similar vein so excuse me for grabbing this one instead]

I responded the way I did because I thought I might have been one you were concerned about. I have made many posts where I talked about positive things I have discovered. They could come across, I suppose, as if I were saying 'no problem'. I have assumed a common backdrop of problem (else why would we be here trying to come to grips with it all?) and would be sad to think I have glossed over that to the point where it has disappeared. But it is definitely possible.

I am old enough to be the mother of most people here and even the grandmother of some. This doesn't give me any special distinction, except that I have (so far, anyway) survived a lifetime in which along a very difficult way I have discovered some life-rafts. I hope to impart the knowledge of this to others - not so much the specific things that have worked for me, but more a way of looking at life, options and so on in a different light - maybe slightly short-circuit the journey for others because mine has been TOO LONG and wasted so much - and to offer some hope that things can turn out all right, or at least some things can.

As I see it, the way to survive with AS in an ocean of NTs is to change how we see life, expectations, success and so on - to come at it from a different angle. We can succeed in our own terms, and perhaps the effect is to appear successful in the world as well. If that sounds like 'there is no problem' I have really failed in my communication efforts. The problem is not ASness, but there still is one: the environment within which most of us have to function, which is not ideally adapted to our AS neurotype and is actively hostile to those of us whose differences are invisible (covered so very well on these pages). One of the biggest problems I have had in life is everyone - just about everyone - telling me how much I have going for me. It has almost destroyed me on so many occasions it would be ironic indeed if I had unwittingly brought about the same insult here, amongst fellow travellers. I'm sincerely sorry if I have.


My longest and most important friendship spanning 30 years has been finished in the last week by the other party. She has not been able to handle my diagnosis. It made me realise that she has relied on her right to abuse me all this time, so the friendship was never really what it claimed to be. Her mainstay has been explaining to me what is wrong about my behaviour, and how many people I have pissed off, and most recently trying to prescribe exactly how I should behave. I resisted her control, then got diagnosed, and since then all she has been able to say is I went shopping for an "excuse for bad behaviour" - the last bit of nasty blaming behaviour she will ever do to me. So now I must suddenly see myself as a lifelong oblivious colluder in my own abuse and you can bet I'm looking forward to the job of rooting that out of my psyche - not. So yes, indeed you are right that our paths have been quite similar. Sorry to self-obsess here (another of my oft-cited crimes) but everything feels so raw at the moment.


Oh yeah. Right with you. I'm holding my tongue a lot these days, and practising my bestest brightest smile instead. Now they are sure to think I'm loopy. Perhaps it will help.

PS I do think it a mistake to focus on "diagnostic autism", to the exclusion of all else because it can interfere with getting on with life. If I have said that - and I know I have in different words, though never so baldly, always with plenty of context - the last thing I have wanted was to attack or dismiss people. Do you think it came across that way? It would be very upsetting to think so. I have never meant to suggest the DX is not important because for many it is essential in order to move on.

Sometimes it appears that people get stuck, as if the abstract thing we call "Autism" is the important thing, rather than what it teaches or facilitates. IMO it's analogous to obsessing about the wrapping to the point of missing out on the gift. We have to figure out the package in order to get to the contents, but if that becomes the whole thing it has transformed into a barrier instead of the temporary helpful tool it was designed to be.

DX should not be the stopping point. It should be the starting point. If we are here to help each other, that is part of the perspective shift I want to help with. If I am missing something, please feel free to say so.

Hi there High Plateau - I honestly don't remember the name of the person that wrote the post I was responding to - I know it wasn't skibum because I know skibum (kinda ), I would have remembered if it was her.

I wouldn't worry too much, my main problem with that thread (0r threads like it) wasn't that people come here and say they want to move forward, escape labels, etc. All those things are good. What makes me angry is when we discuss problems we are having that are ongoing problems and someone responds by saying something like we are mired in or obsessed with Autism or it's our label and it shouldn't be or we should get over it or whatever dismissive thing it is.

I don't actually hate being Autistic because I do associate a lot of my personality and enjoyment that I get out of life from being my Autistic traits, I just wish being with people was not always so god awful difficult.

I see a lot of people on this website dedicated to telling people what they should feel or think about their autism, how much they should dwell on it, etc, which to me is waste of thought and not for them to decide anyway. Also, I think it's pointedly dumb for people on an Autism website to tell people not to identify with it when clearly they are too or they wouldn't be here. That kind of behavior masks something else, lack of self confidence, or fear of their own psyche, I don't know.

If they have coping skills to share, that's another thing entirely and probably most of us would welcome it, but everybody's life journey is different and they shouldn't be directing anybody's but their own.

Also, there are some really differing opinions here on the "NT" (I still don't like that term) v. Autistics. Some of us, myself included think that we get treated differently because of Autism. Others en masse think that's not a fair thing to say because they are not treated differently themselves. Well I think it's great for them that they aren't, and I can understand how maybe that makes it difficult for them to understand our problems, it doesn't mean the problems don't exist. So fine, for the in their reality it is honestly not true, but in mine it honestly is.

I don't think anybody treats me differently because of "autism" per se, because most people don't know I have it, but rather for the behaviors that stem from it. I am seen as an outsider for sure. I'm sure it happens to people who aren't autistic too, but whatever.

Sorry, I'm rambling! Sorry about your friendship though, that's tough. I've been there. We - sorry I'm using a generality here, but I think it applies to many (but not all) Aspies - we have a certain vulnerability to that kind of friendship, it can be very painful. In my case I learned to accept that early because that's how my family has always and still does treat me - when they speak to me. It's a whole process of unlearning and when I don't accept it from them, they don't want to be around me. I think they literally have no other idea of how to approach me as a human - maybe that is the problem with your friend, but then that makes that her problem (mostly at least).

I really rambled this time!

See rewritten entry below. Sorry - got confused about whether it had posted successfully or not and now I can't find a delete button.

Last edited by HighPlateau on 13 Oct 2013, 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Highplateau, sorry to hear about your ex friend. I have had a very similar experience a few times and it hurts to the core. Those kinds of people don't deserve to be friends to anyone. Here's a hug.

As far as people dwelling on their autism or really going on about it, I think that it is important that people are able to do that if they need to. It's possible that for some this may be the only place they are able to express these feelings and if they need to do that to whatever extent is helping them than we should support them in it. And support can be in different ways, by responding to their posts with helpful comments or if we don't want to by just not responding. But I think that a lot of people need this very much for their own growth and healing and need to be able to express freely and completely what life is like for them. And we really can't know what someone's life and challenges are unless we are them or with them so we can't decide when someone is exaggerating or over dwelling on their condition. But I think that as long as we can refrain from attacking each other or making unwarranted accusations about other people's conditions we should let people vent or express themselves about how they are doing without harsh judgement. Wozeree, I think I remember the post that you were responding to in your original post and if it is the same one I am thinking of I remember feeling very uncomfortable when I read it as well. Fortunately I can't remember who wrote it and I don't really want to go looking for it. I think it's better not to. But even if we don't agree on everything with everyone, I think it's important to allow people to talk about their struggles as much as they need to. I know how much I appreciate it when I am allowed that.

And League Girl, you make a really good point about how sometimes it's easier for someone with a more obvious challenge or disability to make or keep friends. For me personally, when I was growing up it was really hard and it can be very hard even now because I look so normal that everyone expects me to be and act it. So people get more freaked out when I don't than if my disability was obvious. For example, the dinner that I mentioned earlier, there was a little incident that stressed me so much that I had a mini meltdown. Well the other couple knows that I am on the Spectrum but they have no idea what that means really. To them it's just a word since they don't know much about Autism at all. So when I had my little meltdown, the one actually got upset at me for having it because she could not understand why I had gotten upset because to her what happened was no big deal. So she was actually bothered by my meltdown because I look normal so in her logic what happened should not have upset me. And I get that all the time. People are always telling me that the things that are challenging for me should not be because I "look" just like them, meaning that my behaviors are close to NT behaviors in a lot of ways so they don't understand why I have a problem and therefore since they don't have the problem than neither should I so I should just stop having a problem because they don't see any reason for me to have one. If I had Down's Syndrome or Cerebral Palsy or something or if my Autism were much more sever and obvious to them, perhaps they would not expect me to act and respond like they do and they might be more understanding. But I am sure that many people with LFA get mistreated also as do many other disabled people so I think that we all get it in one way or another. But no matter how we get it, it hurts us all very much so I think it's important to keep the mutual support and encouragement strong at a site like this.

Last edited by skibum on 13 Oct 2013, 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Yes, I agree with you there needs to be acceptance of all approaches because everyone's path is different. Even so, I will never stop encouraging people to get on with life if they appear to be stuck, especially if they say they are stuck and ask for help. I would seldom state someone's perception of their own experience is wrong or mistaken - after all, their perception (i.e. the biochemical brew their brain is bathed in) is what they are subjectively living and must deal with, even if others would interpret things differently - but sometimes I might ask them to consider the possibility that something else is going on. Sometimes we all need a reality check and occasionally we even have the sense to ask for one!

We on the autism spectrum are particularly vulnerable to getting locked into ourselves, which is what most of us - rightly, I believe - perceive as the nexus of our difficulty interacting with the world. When our internal workings become our own 'special interest', we sometimes don't see we are doing it even while it is making us feel desperately claustrophobic. The right words from a friend can help us change that. I have experienced it. Perhaps I can help someone else in the same way.

I'm remembering one instance on WP where the OP was apparently describing a cycle of physical abuse in a romantic relationship and dangerously misperceiving her situation. Now, I don't know that I and others were 100% correct about that but, just going on the percentages, any risk to her of losing a could-be-okay-eventually relationship if she followed advice to get out and move on was surely far outweighed by the harm that might befall her if there were even a small possibility of its being genuinely abusive. In the end it came down to us trusting her story and then responding or not responding. Many chose to respond. We can't sit on the fence forever, and sometimes I believe it really is justified to put a strong view one way or another, even if it is not what someone wished to hear.

Perhaps after that it sounds contradictory to say it is definitely choices we need, not prescriptions. Maybe I have spoken inappropriately at times - almost certainly have, being born and trained to advocacy which tends to impart unintended vehemence to an already strongly-articulated view... and then there's the ASD intensity thing on top of that. I have nothing to compare it with; like everyone else I am stuck with my own 'reality', so I only know I've overstepped the mark if someone tells me. So, OP - and you seem like a very nice, thoughtful person to me - I still can't really tell if you are taking a different position or agreeing with me!!

Thank you for your quick response and (mostly, anyway, I think) personal reassurance. Sympathy, too. Some days are harder than others but things get better.

Namaste.

Edit: Thanks for the hug, skibum. Same right back to you. Virtual hugs are great!!

Last edited by HighPlateau on 14 Oct 2013, 12:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

HighPlateau you are right. And I think that what you speak of is also a form of very valuable support. I have really appreciated when people have helped me in those ways here on WP as well.

I was referring more to where people get upset at others or speak rudely to them or make posts that are not helpful but are rather just criticizing others for talking a lot about their issues. I think that may be what Wozeree might have been referring to as well, and Wozeree please correct me if I misunderstood you. But yes, support comes in many ways as does encouragement. I think it is great to give courage to others to help them get unstuck and move towards better in their lives. That is a valuable and important skill and one a true friend would do. And often times, even in posts, you can tell when someone is genuinely trying to help or when someone is just being criticizing and mean. But I really appreciate when people do as you do and give advice with a genuine heart and spirit to help.

Last edited by skibum on 14 Oct 2013, 12:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

Yeah I think the support is good and that's a great reason to tell our stories - just knowing we are not alone in the universe. How many of us thought we were
until we came here?

But also, we can work things out here that we can't work out by talking to ourselves alone. It's an important tool.

High Plateau - not your fault for not knowing if I was being sympathetic - I really went on a tangent! But yes I was.

skibum - not sure what happened but I feel from your description like I want to pop that woman. Not like hurt her badly, but a good swat, ya know>

Ah phew, skibum and wozaree. That's all right, then!! ! Better get back to work, me, but please keep chatting and I will catch up later. Who is it you want to swat firmly (though not lethally) on the chin? Do tell!!