So, starting to doubt my self-dx.

Post Reply New Topic

First of all I never talked about "worthlessnes"



I understand reasons where this isn't possible, but my personal view is that I don't see a self-dx as valid and have my doubts about it and this is my right to do so and have my own opinion on topics. Do you actually find it strange when someone is having another opinion on a topic than you?



I know ppl who got "miss-dx" with GID, had their surgery and were unhappy afterwards - one of them had a severe childhood trauma instead. So I think it's necessery to check the diagnosis befor you get surgery. I don't find it important for name change though because it's nothing you can't change back if you are unhappy later on.
I don't doupt a GID self-dx anymore after they live after surgery happy in their "new" gender for some time. I know a case like that, who managed to get surgery without any professional psychological opinion.

Actually, if the person is unhappy with their body, that is a problem with the person, not society, though it could be argued that societal influences can lead to the person being unhappy with their body. Nevertheless, among those who believe in things like the feminine essence theory of MtF transsexuality, the unhappiness with the body comes from within, indicating a belief that the problem is with the person.

right, I see it the same way as you beneficii, but couldn't have expressed it that well.

And to make it clear:
I personally find it natural to devide between "suspicion" and "diagnosis". I make an example: my psychiatrist had some suspicons about me in the beginning, but he didn't dx me with them. Some turned out right and he dx me with (ADD) and others were wrong and he dropped the thought and and others again it's still a suspicion: Bipolar. So evenghough it's a suspicion it still doesn't make sence that he dx me with, first it has to be confirmed.

The point is that gender dysphoria as a diagnosis does not stigmatize trans people for having a gender different from that expected based on their assignment at birth. This is a change from "gender identity disorder" which explicitly pathologized trans people's genders.

Many of the symptoms of gender dysphoria as described in the DSM-5 deal with how other people treat the person with GD. It doesn't say the person with GD has no problems, but rather that having GD in this society aggravates it.

The problems with being transgender are not strictly within the trans person or BS like this wouldn't happen as often as it does:

http://www.transadvocate.com/trans-stud ... ow-not.htm

Oh, and DSM-5 explanation of GD replacing GID:

http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Gender%20 ... 0Sheet.pdf

Last edited by Verdandi on 15 Oct 2013, 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No, you just said that self-dx is "never a good idea." If it's never a good idea, then what is it worth, exactly?



I am not telling you that you cannot hold whatever opinions you wish. Nor do I find it strange when someone has an opinion different from mine. However, even though everyone is entitled to their own opinions, they're not entitled to their own facts, and I do not think that "self-dx isn't valid" or "self-dx is never a good idea" are factual statements - made moreso by the absolutist framing of self-dx as invalid and never a good idea.

It's easy to counter such absolute statements just by providing an exception. I am an exception to both of those statements - for me, my self-dx was both valid and a good idea. Both in that every self-dx I had made was confirmed and validated professionally, and because the self-dx in the first place led me to seeking professional help for my difficulties. Suspicions weren't enough for me, even though a self-diagnosis does not mean absolute certainty.



I know people who did this too, but they didn't do it because a psychiatrist told them they were trans and thus they should transition. They, like people who are actually trans, primarily found a psych to seek that specific diagnosis and receive treatment for it.

My understanding is that the vast majority of people who seek transition self-diagnose themselves with GID (now GD) and seek treatment. Some never even see mental health professionals and gain access to treatment via "informed consent" as opposed to needing a psych referral to prove they are the gender they say they are.

I have encountered exactly one person out of the many trans people I have known who was told by her therapist that she was trans.

And are you really saying that someone with gender dysphoria needs to be told by a psychiatrist what their real gender is before they can claim it on their own? This is not what you said, but this is a logical extension of what you said.



Wow, huh. I can't respect that at all. The corollary seems to be that you doubt self-dxes if the people who self-dx don't get surgery? How many thousands of dollars does that cost now? How hard is it to obtain? Why is surgery the line to cross to prove commitment? That sounds pretty invasive right there.

I believe that everyone has the right to live their life as whatever and however they chose to live BUT also everyone has the right to have their own opinion.
I don't need commitment by society to do the things I do and also society doesn't need my commitment in return to do the things they wish.

I even believe that being independent from the decissions from society is sometimes very important.
Not everyone believed me being transgender when I started to transition. I didn't blaim them. I went on and also my own risk. Everyone makes their own decissions. I can't look others in their head and see their motives and others can't look me in the head. And that's alright. But it doesn't mean everyone had to believe me being transgender when I started to transition. My mom actually didn't for many years and many I know were first convinced after my name change and after I lived happy after the surgery and that's totally alright for me. It was their very own right to do so. I don't tell others how they are supposed to feel and there was the possibility that I'm unhappy afterwards, eventhough if it was very minor.

Last edited by Raziel on 15 Oct 2013, 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm not dx with the DSM-5 nor DSM-IV. I'm dx with the ICD-10 and I don't have to agree with every single opinion the DSM has.

I am totally on the same page with Verdandi but would take it even further (and don't necessarily expect agreement in return).

It is one of the great evils of our present society [opinion] that many people confuse fact with opinion [fact], whether deliberately or out of ignorance. Manipulation of thought along these lines has fuelled many a right-wing revolution [fact - just check the propaganda engines], and is presently being used (quite cynically, in my opinion) to cause confusion about the facts of global warming, perpetuate false generalisations about the many faces of Islam, and vandalise science by promoting educational "choice" about evolution or - my personal fave - fomenting the current "debate" about immunisation.

A big clue is where the words "right" or "wrong" are used, or "God" and "evil". This is often a signal that bigots are trying to enforce their worldview (opinion) on others who disagree. Bullies use these words a lot, as do extremely rich and powerful people and institutions. Those who disagree may themselves be reliant on unfounded opinion, or may be standing on factual bedrock. The enforcers are not motivated by accuracy; they are motivated by power, their primary tool being fear. Often the resisters are similarly motivated, the main point of distinction being that one lot has the upper hand and the other lot doesn't - not this week, anyway.

I don't know where we take this, except that, to my mind, knowledge is better than ignorance. I am completely with schoolgirl Malala Yousafzai on this one. If you don't yet know of her, Google the name. She is inspirational, for sheer clarity she is unrivalled, and I believe she is showing the way forward. That's only my opinion, of course.

You say that everyone has the right to their own opinion but then say self dx is not valid. Self dx is nothing more than that persons opinion and without knowing that persons intelligence, education and self insite it seems foolish and a bit arrogent to dismiss their opinion about themselves.

Hmmm...One could argue that it would be foolish to accept another's self-diagnosis without understanding the process that person used for coming to such a conclusion. LOL.

Please note, I am not arguing against self-diagnosis. I believe it can be done, with proper diligence.

I think that article is misleading. The girls weren't talking about being attacked, only that they felt harassed by the presence of a male in their restroom. It's very controversial whether transgender people should stick to unisex bathrooms or the bathrooms of their birth sex. Personally, as a transgender MtF, I don't go into women's bathrooms.

The one thing has nothing to do with the other.
I've the right to think that I'm Napoleon for example, but it still doesn't make it any more correct.
I'm against medicating and treating ppl against their will, just because they have another opinion than society. Because that's mind controll, eventhough if their opinion is propably incorrect. Just because everyone has the right to their own opinion, doesn't mean I've to believe it. Because also I have have the right for my own opinion, like they to them.
If I would automatically have to believe others, just because they have their right to their opinion, would mean that I wouldn't have the right to my opinion anymore. Wouldn't make much sence, would it?

Second of all, speaking about facts: about 80% of ppl who self-dx with AS and seek professional help are right having AS. I bet they who don't seek help, the number is much lower, but still if it would be the same, it would still make 20% who are incorrect. So I've to believe everyone who self-dx, also those 20%?

Third, especially over the internet - even if I wanted - I can't really proof any of those things you mentioned.

Fourth of all, I also doubt my own suspicions what I could have and couldn't have and I've at least a second opinion from the outside, because I strongly believe that we view ourselfs differently than others around us and that we have to put more than one piece together, eventhough if I might have been right in the end. I usually even get two independent psychiatric opinions until I believe the diagnosis about being right. I also always tell ppl to get a second opinion if they are not sure what their psychiatrist said and I don't think at all it's arrogant towards the psychiatrist just because you let proof that diagnosis again. Even very good experts in their fields can make a mistake. None of us is perfect and we actually should accept that as part of human nature.

So why is it arrogant if I think about others the same than I would about myself, being in the same position? Respecting other ppl doesn't mean I have to believe everything they say and dx a person with a "mental disorder" is a difficult process and even a high intelligent and well educated person might have subjective views about themselfs leading to the wrong diagnosis. Like over- or underestimating owns problems, favoring one diagnosis over the other (ppl less often dx themselfs with personality disorders or schizphrenia for example), not being able to recognise parts of the "mental disorder" (paranoia, delusions etc.) and so on.

Last edited by Raziel on 16 Oct 2013, 4:32 pm, edited 19 times in total.

I personally didn't transition because society is transphobe and I totally reject that thought. I also don't think that anyone should get surgery just to get accepted by others. You always should do it, because you want it deeply inside of you. We are not talking about wearing a sweater because of pressure peer groups who is one thing, we are talking here about a livelong decission and this should always be out of inner reasons and to accept yourself better.
The DSM-5 changed to not sounding transphobe anymore and not necesserely because of scientific basis. I personally don't know Transsexuals where their only motives of sex reasignment surgery is society alone and the paradox thing about it, I wouldn't have gotten my name change nor my surgery if this would have been my motives, because there they proof if it is a constant feeling insite oneself and not because of pressure of society.
Also of course the DSM shouldn't be transphobe, but I don't think that it is the right way by viewing Transsexualism from the outside and renaming it into "gender dysphoria", because then they give the impression the person just has problems with their environment and that's it. And this is not at all the case.

And of course many ppl are still transphobe, but I don't think it's the right way to change diagnostic criteria and giving the impression Transsexuallity would just be a problem between society and onceself, when Transsexualism starts in oneself actually. Because my gender identity lies deep and unchangable inside of me.

I also don't think that unisex bathrooms are the best way. I actually think if we had a more openminded society, we wouldn't need the discussion about unisex bathrooms for Transsexual(!) ppl in the first place. So I think we should work on a more openminded society instead of pushing Transsexuals further away from normality and into the spotlight of attention.

I don't think the person I'm seeing is an autism expert, they're just a regular ol' clinical psychologist, but there was a self-referral service to them through Outlook Southwest? Where are you based? It might be different depending on your area.



BAP I had never even heard of before I found this forum, and don't know well enough to comment on. ADHD is probably the closest thing to a *~differential diagnosis~* I am comfortable with, as it would explain a hell of a lot* but it probably doesn't cover everything. BPD... maybe would in some ways, but idk. It's something I go back and forth on whether or not it could fit me or not. I think I'm half just afraid of the stigma, and half hate how "emotionally unstable" sounds even in my own head. I don't want to jump to conclusions with things anymore though. That's sorta what got me into this mess.

(*Honestly, after a bit more research, I fit the description of an ADHD adult so well its almost stereotypical and I can't help but wonder how I never stumbled on that idea before because it has been literally staring me in the face my entire goddamn life. Like seriously, selective obliviousness, much?)

Trans women are women and should be able to use women's restrooms. It's only controversial to those who hate trans women and treat them like predators. This is despite the fact that there is no legitimate case of a transgender woman ever assaulting a cis woman or any child in any women's restroom. The whole thing is based on fearmongering, not anything that has ever happened in the real world.

That article was not misleading - that article was a fairly accurate description of what other articles had claimed about that trans girl (who should be allowed - and is allowed - use the girl's restroom in her school). They stated she was actively harassing cisgender girls in the restrooms. They weren't saying "They felt harassed because of her presence." They said she was actually harassing them. It turns out these stories were not fact checked, as can be determined by reading the article I linked.

You have all of my sympathies for believing the trans misogynistic and transphobic framework that says you are a second class woman and questions whether it's valid to call you a woman at all. I hope you can find a way out of that mindset because it is ultimately toxic and does no good for one's self-esteem.

I don't understand how this relates to what I said, since I didn't claim that these things are like wearing a sweater or that being trans is caused by society. I said gender dysphoria focuses on the distress caused by living in a transphobic society. It doesn't erase or refuse to address the fact that trans people are really the genders they say they are.

But it does step away from pathologizing them because their genders are not what is expected due to their assigned sex at birth. It also acknowledges that the treatment necessary is transition.



I don't think you understood what I said, which was that living in a society like this and being trans tends to cause trans people a lot of distress. But being trans is a real thing that is not caused by society. Being trans and, say, having a 16x greater chance of attempting suicide than the general population is something that is likely heavily influenced by society. Being trans and not being able to find work, or being told that your gender isn't real. Why am I explaining this?



That's not what it says, and that's not what I said it said.



That's not what it says and that's not what I said.



I agree with this.