I have to work like a dog pretending to be NT

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bumble
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20 Oct 2013, 6:15 am

yellowtamarin wrote:
bumble wrote:
doofy wrote:
bumble wrote:
I don't even fit in in mental health support groups as my depression manifests differently to theirs (ie they go straight to value judgements and giving each other hugs and positive thinking when they are upset whereas I want to find a practical solution so that I can solve the problem. If the problem is solved then I have no need to be upset about it...! !! !! I fail to see how someone giving me a hug helps? Can someone explain their logic to me? I don't find it comforting, it is annoying, I want a solution to the problem not a cuddle....a hug does nothing for me in that context and I'd rather they didn't hug me at such times thank you very much.)

Thank you so much for writing this


Do you identify?

I do. I've read a fair few of your posts and I reckon we would get along well. I don't think people who think in this way are able to find each other very easily, unfortunately. Or to realise they have found each other.


Indeed.



y-pod
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20 Oct 2013, 9:12 am

I always thought it's best to be yourself. I'm willing to put up a normal face for very important occasions, but I don't want to pretend to be someone I'm not. Autism is not evil and shouldn't be your skeleton in the closet. If someone gets close to you enough they might notice it anyway, and feel rather deceived.

Most people on the spectrum have anxiety or depression or both. Trying too hard is probably one of the main reasons. It's not wrong to want to be a better person of course. But the change need to happen within, from the core. Pretending doesn't make you better or erase the suffering and resentment you feel inside.


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Sedentarian
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20 Oct 2013, 9:34 am

Forevernuts wrote:
It's agonizing... it is totally exhausting but I guess it's worth it as I've improved a TON since my late teens at appearing fairly normal to most people (unless you get me on an off day).

It's been quite a journey getting here but I think at almost 24 years old I'm now able to blend in much better socially and have learned how to not appear "mildly autistic" these days.

Does anyone else feel the same?

Why do you want to appear normal?



ASPartOfMe
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20 Oct 2013, 3:22 pm

Even though I don’t agree with it you are an adult and make your own decisions. I am not in your body and mind, and I was 23 in 1980 not 2013 so who am I to judge you? I would just take an “off” day or a long weekend to refresh but that is up to you. Good luck.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 20 Oct 2013, 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aspie48
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20 Oct 2013, 6:02 pm

Forevernuts wrote:
It's agonizing... it is totally exhausting but I guess it's worth it as I've improved a TON since my late teens at appearing fairly normal to most people (unless you get me on an off day).

It's been quite a journey getting here but I think at almost 24 years old I'm now able to blend in much better socially and have learned how to not appear "mildly autistic" these days.

Does anyone else feel the same?
I used to think that I appear non autistic, but then i realized that i'm probably wrong. I learned more about social cues



JSBACHlover
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22 Oct 2013, 9:48 pm

Is this thread still open? I agonize over trying to act normal. It gets a bit easier with each passing day, but sometimes I don't know who I am deep inside. Or, more accurately, I try to protect that person inside.....



klausnrooster
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23 Oct 2013, 1:21 am

I'm 50 and have gotten better at not alienating people. Good thing too - it's stressful to be ostracized or put up with 'side-channel' communication (hostile-spectrum comments directed ostensibly at this/that but in reality at YOU). I have a real good NT friend, one of about 3. Long distance away from all 3 now. I see my BFF once a year maybe and even then a few hours continuous interaction and I need a break. I got a lot of mileage out of imitation. Copying mannerisms, speech, etc of ppl I work with. Sort of fake it 'till you make it. But I tell you, it wears me out. Lately I feel like letting my freak-flag fly, to quote the band C, S & N. Recently I told a coworker I was Aspy and not 2 days later he was doing the side-channel comments to say "...you're not 'Ass-Burgers' [he wore that one out], it's just your Personality..." Why he finds it necessary, i'll never know. I work closely with him and we do real well on the work stuff. I get all the social contact I want at work, and then some. Another good situation for semi-sociability is concerts. Chat before, after, and STFU in-between. BUT here's a point: I wish I had been working with people like you these past 30 years instead of the NT wad. I never heard of ASDs before Y2K. If I had, I would have found a career that put me around less-NT people.



JakeDay
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23 Oct 2013, 9:37 am

Until my recent HFA diagnosis, I spent the previous 40 years under the assumption that I was a perfectly normal individual.
With a few issues.

I did know instinctively that I was suss in some way. eg I had grave misgivings about getting a drivers license (responsibilty / motor coordination). Bullying. Confrontations with educators / employers / lovers. I never fit in, people thought I was a weirdo, or an eccentric at best. I was different.

I grew up in a pretty rough town and it was important to fit in. I never felt as if anyone understood me. I was having trouble relating to others. Everyone around me was so... suburban. I struggled to be acceptable, and I never really felt like I fit in. I was an outsider.

I was a pretty alienated teenager (which I intellectualised as normal), and once school was over, I sought out interest groups. It took a while to make friends, many people simply bored me too much. I couldn't connect. Eventually though, I found interesting exciting people who wanted to be my friend and engage in activities such as music, art, computers.

I found amazing exciting fun people via participation in community radio, where my bizarre and eclectic tastes attracted a small following. We developed a punk scene, and merged with the metal scene. We had some great times. But... as my stresses grew (social / work / volunteer commitments), my meltdowns increased until I was excluded by my friends. The upshot of this: I moved to my current city, about twenty years ago.

Over the years, I have gathered many social survival strategies from my experiences with living in share houses, playing in bands, and being involved in visual art and computers. By maintaining a friendly attitude, I was able to attract to me the people who were right for me. I always seemed to attract the zany people, the intellectuals, bohemians, arty folks, hackers, and post modern freakazoids. By those cultural standards, I seemed pretty normal. I occasionally felt like a real square and narc around some folks - usually modern primitives. I didn't realise my quiet differences were making them recoil. I had weirdness envy too, I think.

The most socially hazardous aspects I experienced regarding undiagnosed autism: I am easily influenced by others, and I adopt social masks to survive - "When in Rome..." Heroin was probably the most dangerous aspect of some sub-cultural involvements. I never became hooked as such, but for a time I was encountering individuals where use was a social expectation. I had to stop associating with heroin users. It was a painful lesson all the same.

In my hometown, I had problems with male-on-male acts of random violence. Which was one benefit of associating with punks. The incidence of attack was less likely among peers. I learnt one way to avoid this problem: if I had the feeling that someone was sizing me up for a fight, I would straighten up, look the person in the eyes, and offer them the warmest friendliest smile I could offer. Violence has never been much of an issue since I accidentally discovered that one. I was so ill-prepared for my own life.

Things that helped me access so-called "NT" folks:

interests (eg music was a way to bypass class barriers)
a friendly attitude
politeness
its ok to pick your friends (I like interesting people, it's a bonus if they find me acceptable).
I hate getting out of my comfort zone. But if you're socially motivated, you just have to do it anyway. You have to get out there, get involved in something that doesn't suck too much.

I've observed that fashion semiotics can be a useful tool (appropriate style opens some doors while closing others, socially speaking).
Also, having had a bittersweet adventure through life, I need to keep a lid on my negative opinions. Its important to have a few friends who can take it though. Or a counsellor.

Since getting a diagnosis, I definitely feel less pressure to act normal. I know WHY I am different now. I make it known that I have autism when necessary, because I think I need allowances made for me. It's not a crime to be different. We are special :D

I always wondered why I couldn't keep still at train stations, I just kind of sort of have to dance, y'know?



JakeDay
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23 Oct 2013, 9:41 am

One more thing - I did the rubber hand illusion for a science research thing the other day. I filled out a rehash of the Simon Cohen test. They made me pick a friend to do one. The areas where I rated myself low and dysfunctional, my friend rated me highly. I was pleasantly surprised.



JSBACHlover
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23 Oct 2013, 1:46 pm

Yeah, Jake, I really related to your post. Especially about thinking all the time I was normal even though I was an outsider. And then the sense of not connection. I love music and art, too. I'd love to talk about it endlessly but people just thought, "Oh he's trying to show off how smart he is." And then there is the fidgeting and the impatience. My job forces me to be in front of the public every day and only recently did a boss of mine have the courage/cruelty to tell me, "Are you weird? What are all your facial expressions and fidgets about?" Oh how embarrassing. I so wish I could have a do-over in so many ways. I wish I was diagnosed when I was 20, not just now at the age of 44. But I suppose this is my story.

I've learned that it's ok to talk about the weather and sports -- NTs like that! And I've learned to listen to people and not interrupt them. I've also learned to be polite and to avoid my quirky humor and to say very little.

Do you sort of know what I mean?



wozeree
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23 Oct 2013, 2:01 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:
Yeah, Jake, I really related to your post. Especially about thinking all the time I was normal even though I was an outsider. And then the sense of not connection. I love music and art, too. I'd love to talk about it endlessly but people just thought, "Oh he's trying to show off how smart he is." And then there is the fidgeting and the impatience. My job forces me to be in front of the public every day and only recently did a boss of mine have the courage/cruelty to tell me, "Are you weird? What are all your facial expressions and fidgets about?" Oh how embarrassing. I so wish I could have a do-over in so many ways. I wish I was diagnosed when I was 20, not just now at the age of 44. But I suppose this is my story.

I've learned that it's ok to talk about the weather and sports -- NTs like that! And I've learned to listen to people and not interrupt them. I've also learned to be polite and to avoid my quirky humor and to say very little.

Do you sort of know what I mean?


Your boss sounds really horrible!
Work is so much more difficult because of these perceptions.



JSBACHlover
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23 Oct 2013, 2:12 pm

Yes, he wasn't nice, but it did lead to a diagnosis. I have a different boss now. He's a very kind soul and he knows I have Aspergers.



wozeree
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23 Oct 2013, 2:29 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:
Yes, he wasn't nice, but it did lead to a diagnosis. I have a different boss now. He's a very kind soul and he knows I have Aspergers.


That's good!



JakeDay
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23 Oct 2013, 7:13 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:

I've learned that it's ok to talk about the weather and sports -- NTs like that! And I've learned to listen to people and not interrupt them. I've also learned to be polite and to avoid my quirky humor and to say very little.

Do you sort of know what I mean?


I do. Reading about your previous boss - that's very familiar. Next time someone asks me if I'm on drugs I can tell them the truth and enjoy their discomfort. I'm very happy with the diagnosis.

I still need to apply the things you've learned more often.



redrobin62
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23 Oct 2013, 7:15 pm

<--- Also works like a dog pretending to be NT. Getting better at it, actually.



wozeree
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23 Oct 2013, 7:45 pm

JakeDay wrote:
JSBACHlover wrote:

I've learned that it's ok to talk about the weather and sports -- NTs like that! And I've learned to listen to people and not interrupt them. I've also learned to be polite and to avoid my quirky humor and to say very little.

Do you sort of know what I mean?


I do. Reading about your previous boss - that's very familiar. Next time someone asks me if I'm on drugs I can tell them the truth and enjoy their discomfort. I'm very happy with the diagnosis.

I still need to apply the things you've learned more often.


This bothers me, this idea that we should stuff our true selves down some dark hole and only talk about things that are allowed, like there's some invisible list that non aspies have in their head.

Sadly I think it's partially right, but non aspies don't confine themselves to any imaginary list, they are free to talk about what they want with each other. They can be really boring though! Holy cow, some of them are very interesting though, others are just stuck in the my house, my spouse, my kid, conversation rut.

So what I want to know is how to know when it is correct to only use the "scripts," but also when and how I can be myself among them.