loyalty, betrayal & trust

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For the last 14 months, I've been going to therapy of all different sorts and been on many different medications. I was diagnosed with hfa in January last. So far no treatment or medication has helped in any small way.
My main difficulties are social anxiety and actual avoidance of individuals following rejection by them romantically. I also have very strong beliefs/principles regarding the aforementioned loyalty and trust.
Up until recently I blamed myself for most of the misfortune I have come across and on getting my AS diagnosis, I would have further blamed my condition.
However I have come to realise very recently that in alot of times in my life, I was not the one at fault when I got rejected or betrayed by others but it was those I had trusted and tried to be nice to who stabbed me in the back.
I don't want to sound really high and mighty about this but having discussed this with one of my therapists (who hadn't a great knowledge of AS), I posed the question that "in order for me to try to succeed in life, would I have to forget everything I stand for and believe in and drop my standards to how I see most NTs behaving"?
My therapist said I certainly shouldn't change my beliefs but couldn't answer how I move on in my present situation.
In the last 12 months, due to a short term relationship with a girl I barely knew, I physically avoid her at all costs as she rejected me and refused to give reason. I no longer talk to my best friend either who I've had since I was 5 also because of the girl I was seeing as he didn't think the break up with her was a big deal and I should just get over it. And finally I don't speak to my parents because they took the side of another girl who have clearly done wrong against me in my opinion
I'm sorry if I went on abit there but I just wanted to get some idea of how you feel I handled the situations. Would yous have done the same? And finally do trust and loyalty mean as much to all you guys as it does to mean?
Thanks for reading
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated

Well, that's fine if that's your coping mechanism.



You've fallen out with your best friend because of his opinion of your breakup?



You've fallen out with your family because they don't agree with you?



While I'm not in full possession of the facts surrounding your circumstances and reactions, I would say that from the information given you are being more than a little unreasonable.

These are not loyalty/trust issues, they are differences of opinion. Your friend and your family have not betrayed you.

Thank you for your opinions. I appreciate your input and it is nice to get an unbiased opinion.

I'll just give you some more of the facts about why I have had problems with my parents and friends to see can anyone see it from point of view. (Again, perhaps you will not change your mind and if your opinion that I am still being unreasonable remains, then I very much respect that).

My friend's girlfriend was friends with the girl. My friend didnt know her that well at all.They set us up together. We had been getting on great for about a month, then 30 minutes before a date, she just cancelled out of the blue. The next day, she just text me and said it was over. No reasons were ever given. Although I was very upset about losing the girl, as with my symptoms its not very easy to meet somebody and I take rejection very badly, it was the way in which she finished with me that really hurt. I thought she really did like me and I cant understand how anybody can be so cruel to just stop seeing somebody like that and never give a reason.
My friend knows how badly I had taken the break up with the girl, yet he has consistently maintained how she ended it was fine. Then he had a birthday party a while back. He knew I wouldnt go if she was there but she was invited anyway. That is where I feel he has betrayed me. Although I am supposed to be his best friend and he is aware of my problems, in my opinion, he has clearly chosen the girl over me. If the boot was on the other foot, I would never end a relationship the way the girl did and I would have stood by my friend. Maybe that has nothing to do with AS and thats just the type of person I am.

Its a similar thing with my parents. They admit somebody has done something wrong on me and are aware that person hurt me very badly, yet they are still very friendly with this person. I am aware I do think in very black and white terms but to me its either a case of me or that other person. And they have chosen that other person.
Finally I havent fallen out with my parents because they dont agree with me, I've fallen out with them because thay have showed no loyalty to me in continuing to be friendly with the person who hurt me.

Bear said:

If she had broken up with you differently, face to face with an explanation, how would things be different right now? How would you feel about her? Would you still avoid her? Would you still feel betrayed if your friends and parents stayed amicable/friendly with her?

I understand why you feel betrayed, although I don't really 'get' it as I wouldn't feel that same way. I'd be much closer to 'getting' your feelings of betrayal if the girl had done much worse to you, like if she'd been abusive throughout the relationship, yet everyone else thought nothing of it. (Even then I wouldn't fully 'get' it as I'd never been in that situation either, but it's much closer of an analogue for me personally.)

Neither your friend or your parents see what she did, breaking up with you without an explanation through a text, as a horrible thing. But you do. The problem is not so much that they're being disloyal to you, it's that they don't view you being jilted as warranting them being unfriendly to this girl.

My personal opinion is that you have placed far too much importance on 1 bad act that this girl has done to you. I think you will be far happier if you can manage to let this hurt go by viewing that what she did as not a horrible, awful thing. Whether or not you see doing that as coming down to the level of the rest of society and you'd need to change your morals in order to do so, I can only offer you different viewpoints that may make you see things differently.

Firstly, have you considered your parents' and friend's own morals? It's quite likely that portraying loyalty to you the way you'd like them to (by not being friendly to her anymore) would goes against what they feel the right thing to do is. They'd likely feel like as*holes if they ignored this girl or treated her poorly over something that they don't see as a big deal. By you separating yourself from these people, you're not only making a decision about them 'not being loyal to you', you're also making the decision that their own morals simply aren't good enough for you, therefore THEY aren't good enough for you.

Secondly, logically, I rather think it's silly how people take 1 incident of disloyalty or mistrust to break what has generally been a trusting relationship. Throughout your life, you WILL break someone else's trust yourself, quite possibly because your morals aren't the same as theirs, and it will really, really suck if they then choose to have that incident outweigh all of the other positive, trusting things that has happened throughout the rest of your relationship. And this is true with everybody. s**t will happen, and friendships will be broken. If you decide to keep your own morals strongly, which you claim are quite different from the rest of society's, broken relationships are going to happen A LOT for you. And what are morals if they aren't a code of conduct that's supposed to keep people happy? Are your morals worth giving up friendships? Is this incident worth giving up your relationship with your parents and your friend?

Again, just throwing something out there, are you sure it's not that their disloyalty that really gets to you, but rather that to accept that others will treat this girl nicely still hurts your pride? If you think about it as you acting too prideful, does that change your perspective on this?

Is it that you have problems separating yourself from your parents and friend so much that when you're at odds about something that hurts you deeply, you simply can't have them in your life?

I agree that breaking up with you without an explanation isn't proper, especially if the relationship was close. But I don't think it's so offensive to warrant that other people see her as a horrible person too. You can hold her to whatever standards you want as far as I'm concerned, it's your prerogative, but it's unreasonable to expect that your parents and your friend hold her to the same standards that you do, or to support you unconditionally. I do feel like I should say again though, that I suspect the happiest solution to all of this will be if you too adopt the stance that what she did wasn't all that bad.

Your relationship with this girl was for one month. In the first post you even said you barely knew her. After one month she didn't want to continue. There doesn't need to be a reason. There is nothing wrong with her just not wanting to. A reason would be warranted in a long relationship with somebody you grew to know well. But this? No.

Expecting other people to cut her out of their lives just because she stopped seeing you after one month is unreasonable. You are being disloyal to them!

Firsly thank you again for such a detailed reply. Again I really appreciate your views.

I just want to clarify though that the reason I have fallen out with my parents and friend is not over the same person but over similar circumstances with different people.

I think you have summed up really well how I am feeling and have a good understanding of what happened. However, I do think you are looking at it from a purely a NT perspective which is obviously how you are going to view it if you are NT. You are saying exactly what my parents and my friends would have said before they knew of my diagnosis and what I expect anyone else who is NT to say. Up until I realised I was on the spectrum, I would have told myself the same things you are saying and I would have blamed myself. In previous experiences I would have told myself, what the girl done is no big deal, I would have asked myself why was I making such a big deal of it, I would have told myself it happens to everybody and let it go.

However since I have been diagnosed (just 9 months ago at the age of 29), I now realise that I have major problems letting things go, that things hurt me more that they hurt NTs, that I am different to most people when it comes to emotional things like this. That is why I feel so let down. It was very hard to tell my parents and few close friends about my condition. At first they didnt even believe me. However now knowing what they know about my condition and how it affects me, surely you can see why I feel I have been betrayed by them. I have made it crystal clear to my parents/friend that I was really really hurt by those two girls and that further contact with them will continue to hurt me. I can not stress that point enough. And I will repeat my point from the previous message I wrote, that if the boot was on the other foot, I would stand by my friend or parents and do what they had asked. That to me is loyalty.

Lastly, I dont think this has anything to do with pride and I do believe that the manner in which the girl ended the relationship was wrong. I believe that if she had to give me a reason for the breakup and had the guts to do it face to face, they I would have accepted it better and got some closure. I dont want to give the impression that im some sort of saint who never does anything wrong but I do try to treat people as I'd like to be treated by them and I dont enjoy arguing with my parents and friend but as i've said many times I feel severly let down by them

Is holding grudges an AS thing or a bear83 thing?
Does it matter if it's one or the other?
It's hard to know what things we can change and what we can't about ourselves.
It's much harder to know what we actually want, or what choice will ultimately make us feel best.

I see now why you feel like you'd have to change your morals to fit in, as you say this isn't just 1 incident but an example of many.

You don't have to change who you are. But unfortunately it seems like you will have to change who you are in order to remain on good terms with a few people who are close to you. It's your own choice. Either isn't a morally bad or good choice, it's not like you're a sex offender who's upset that people are bothered by you raping people or something. Either decision is valid, although obviously one of these choices is more socially accepted. Or don't make it, you're allowed to remain in strenuous relationships with your parents and this friend too.

Thank you all for your responses.
It would appear that the majority, if not all of you think I am the wrong here so I can't really argue with that. I wanted to put the question out there because I've saw alot of docs in the past while and I think they tend to just agree with what you say just to try and keep you happy.
I really appreciate all your honesty.

In relation to the question about grudges. I know you were probably asking it sarcastically but I would freely admit I do hold grudges. If I feel somebody has wronged me, a friend, a family member, etc, I tend not to forget about it. Again that all depends on what your definition of wrong is (and mine seems to be different than most others) and I can't say for sure if holding grudges is an AS trait or just my own thing. Again it seems to be my own thing.

Finally in relation to the person who said the girl didn't need to explain why she was ending the relationship. Indeed she didn't but I would ask you how you would feel if you went into work one day and your boss said you were fired and when you asked why. He just said "no reason. Your just fired" I would guess you wouldn't be too happy and would like to at least been told why.

Anyway thanks again to everyone for taking the time to reply. I genuinely hope that none of my messages insulted anybody. I was just trying to be honest and explain my points of view

Hi bear I think I understand what you are going through. It's really the problem of NT people not being able to understand AS people and vice versa. Your family and friends simply will not accept that you are hurt to the degree you say you are and will not behave in a way you would like them to behave because that is not how they think - if they did, they would be AS too.

I think you have every right to feel hurt and betrayed but you also have to realise you are living in on a foreign planet so to speak, where everyone operates under different rules to you, even your closest family and friends. This is the hardest part of AS I think - when before you were trying to adapt yourself, now that you have a diagnosis you sort of feel like you don't need to do that anymore, but unfortunately, if you want to fit in the society, you have to do it by their rules for the most part - that bit never seems to go away. Sorry bud!

That did happen to me. I was fired within the 90 day probationary period that is common in U.S. companies. The non-reason given was "this just isn't working out". That doesn't explain much but then I didn't expect anything other than that since it is a standard answer when being fired within the 90 day probationary period. I was unhappy but only because it meant I had to go job hunting again, not because they didn't give a reason. They never (or rarely) do within that probationary period. For relationships- job or personal- that have barely started, "this just isn't working out" is the standard response.

She didn't say "this isn't working out" she just stood you up. That is rude and she should have told you it wasn't working out. But after such a short time, "this isn't working out" is really all that is expected. She didn't do that and she should have, but that pat phrase isn't really a reason.
But after such a short time (one month), it is quite likely she wouldn't have been able to formulate anything more detailed than "this isn't working out" anyway. A long term relationship that ends will be full of reasons, but if you don't really know each other that well, all there is is a vague feeling that whatever she was hoping for (which may be a subconscious emotion) just wasn't there.