How can I tell...

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Ok I should be going to therapy soon and want to analyse my social skills.

I have found this link on the differences between ASDs and Social Anxiety (I have not been formerly tested for an ASD and presently have a Social Anxiety diagnosis). I like the example they use in regards to the differences between the two issues:

"Think of a guitar player, and social skills being guitar skills. The person with social anxiety would know how to play the guitar. They’d just be afraid to. The autistic person would play the guitar wrong, or not play it at all."

As I am presently out and about trying to test my social skills so I can discuss my problems with my therapist how can I tell which one applies to me? How can I tell if its a lack of social skills or if I am just too nervous to make use of any social skills I might have?

Forgot link:
http://www.autism-world.com/index.php/2 ... nd-autism/

By observing whether or not people look at you weird or give you other signs that you are behaving unusually.

By visualizing socialization. This will eliminate at least some of the social anxiety. If you can't quite visualize what you'd be doing, that's a sign that you lack social skills. If the visualization goes more or less smoothly...could be social anxiety.

Of course, lack of social skills can lead to social anxiety...if you see signs of both, I suppose you would need to pay attention to which comes first; not knowing what to do, or the anxiety it provokes.

I don't really know if people think I act weirdly these days. I've been told I pull my face around a lot but I am often very reserved in public unless I forget and talk to myself (a bad habit that has gotten worse since I have been spending so much time alone). People mostly think I am aloof or elusive, snobby, stuck up or unfriendly. I have been called eccentric, a weird one, odd, strange etc but that is mostly from people who have tried to get to know me rather than strangers. I am quirky.

When I talk to strangers the conversations mostly dry up.

I also get bored with social chit chat after a while and keep trying to disappear somewhere by myself.

I may or may not feel nervous...(or I may or may not be aware of feeling nervous).

I don't know, it's confusing because I get lonely because I don't have friends, but when i try to make friends I either fail or if I do make a friend I can never keep the friendship going anyway.

The social stuff is too hard.



I can socialise in my head when I fantasise but I only really fantasise about having a boyfriend to socialise with rather than lots of girly friends. I have not had a girly friend in 20 years...all my friends have been male, but the friendships fell through when i didn't want sex with them.

Girls don't really talk to me...what do women of 38 to 40 years talk about these days? Ie what am I visualising exactly? I know old people talk to me, they tell me all about life in their day or stuff that happened to their elderly friend whilst I am stood at the bus stop. I smile and nod, smile and nod and use comments like "I guess things have changed" and "oh that is terrible" and "I know how you feel". The conversation lasts a few moments then ceases or we get on the bus. I don't talk to people when on the bus, I can't really hear them over the noise of the engine and everyone else talking at the same time. Well sometimes I can but oftentimes I can't.

The same at parties or in groups when everyone is yapping at once. I have had entire evenings talking with people and not heard a word anyone has said...I just smile and nod smile and nod smile and nod. Hopefully in the right place.

It may be anxiety...perhaps i am too anxious to focus on the conversation.

Someone once said I was like one of those nodding dogs people have in cars. I just smile and nod but don't speak.



I have no idea if I have issues with both. I get anxious mostly with people my own age because I have been bullied at lot...school, work, and online in the past. Makes me wary of people...

Old people are fine though, they always seem very nice so I talk to them...well they talk to me. I let them natter. I like old people.

I keep clashing eyes with people whilst I'm out lately as I am trying to observe social interactions but can't figure out why people are looking at me. So I stopped looking today because it's annoying. I don't think I look weird, I am not wearing odd clothing and I don't have odd hair or anything. Maybe social anxiety making me feel self conscious? People look but don't speak. Why do they look and don't speak?

Sometimes I can tell why they are looking at me, ie at a check out when its my turn to go up to the till (I can be a bit slow sometimes as i am often lost in my thoughts so don't always notice these things much to the annoyance of the people behind me..) but other times I am not sure.

I don't think I am talking to myself at the time (I really have to stop that! I'll be walking along and either start talking my thoughts about things whilst Im walking as though I am talking to someone who is not there or I will see something and make a comment to myself out loud about it ie "oooo that is pretty" etc. People probably think I am schizophrenic. I don't hear or see things that are not there though...I am processing my thoughts. I do the same when i read...i read loudly too. Just can't think quietly.

i wonder if i need to join a group or class..?

I did make friends at college 20 years ago. It took months but eventually my grade average got around and people would ask me for help with their work. I would help them (I don't mind) and they would talk to me at lunch time and things. They seemed to think I was funny back in those days. The friendships did not last longer than the college course though.

Im confused.

You can have both.

I'd say the best thing is looking for other symptoms of autism. For example, sensory symptoms.

Ok, so you have trouble understanding speech in environments with competing noise, are bored by small talk, are mainly interested in a boyfriend in an ideal social situation (your visualizing), are out of step with your peer group, get suspicious looks from strangers and don't know why, can't tell when you feel nervous, can't keep a conversation going, sounds maybe like you were used by schoolmates to help with schoolwork and didn't realize it, thought you had friendships with guys who actually wanted sex, feel lonely but don't put forth the effort to keep typical friendships going (loneliness not alleviated by typical interaction?), think socializing is hard (rather than scary? which would be more typical of social anxiety), zone out in public, and talk out loud to yourself.

Sounds more like autism to me.

Both ASD and NT can have Social Anxiety. If an NT is negatively socially adapted they can display behaviours similar to ASD. The difference is in the neurological development. ASD do not have the neurological circuitry to intuitively perceive and process social interaction as an NT would. If the NT became positively adapted they would be able to intuitively process social encounters. An ASD must not only be treated for any negative adaptation, but also learn further skills to rely on as they will never intuitively appreciate the social interplay. That being said, much of the ability to interact socially is learnt behaviour for both NT and ASD. Social potential varies from person to person. ASD is just at the more severe end of the human spectrum, where their inherent difficulty becomes clinically significant.

It can be difficult for one to observe themselves and tell the difference. This is in effect asking them if they are aware of what they are not aware of. At the more severe end it may be more obvious, but at the milder end, especially for females who tend to be generally more emotionally aware, they my be better able to compensate. They may still be experiencing confusion and anxiety, but it's not so obvious as to why.

Sometimes as one progresses through treatment it becomes more obvious which it is, altering the diagnosis as they progresses. Because there is no pathology test to determine which it is, it can only be determined by observation of behaviour. Behaviour alone can be ambiguous as it could be caused by may things. I assume this is the reason for the “and must be from no other cause” clause in the diagnosis. If nothing is apparently causing it, then it must be neurological. We can't actually test for it.

Once a child grows beyond about 8 years old, they start to rely increasingly on adaptation. By the time you are an adult it can be difficult for an observer to determine if a behaviour is learnt or innate, until a course of treatment is pursued and its outcome tested. If the behaviour is due to adaptation, then the cause is psychological. If the behaviour is innate, then the cause is neurological. In this case labelled ASD.

Ultimately the purpose of treatment is to progress and achieve a better quality of life. From a medical perspective this outcome is significant, while the exact cause or its label are not.

Obviously each person and their potential, and even to some degree which treatment is most beneficial, varies by the specific factors of their case. But I believe this is the fundamental difference.

I don't know, I am confused and stuck.

I am supposed to figuring out what I want therapy to do for me and I don't know because I don't even know what the problem is. I don't know why people don't like me or why I cant find a partner or a friend. I've tried my best but nothing works and when I post about my frustration people just keep accusing me of not doing anything to help myself or of not wanting to change the situation.

Sometimes people try to befriend me but I can't cope with them. Their need for me to reply to them instantly and then their resulting personal attacks and complaints when I don't answer straight away.

Their belief system and ego obsession which makes it impossible to just enjoy their company. Their belief that it is shameful or bad to not be good at something, their unrealistic expectations, their inability to accept personal difference without trying to change it, their tendency to push themselves until they make themselves ill because they can't seem to accept being human and their belief that others should do the same, the constant need to keep talking because otherwise people think you are too quiet, the complaints about talking too much about the same thing when you do speak, their expecting you to just drop everything you are presently doing just so they can witter on at you about unimportant stuff like some gossip they just heard (I am not talking about when someone clearly needs assistance...I don't mind dropping what I am doing to help under such instances), their inability to entertain themselves and their need for company all the time.

Socialising is constant pressure. Pressure pressure and more pressure. Do this, be that, play stupid social games, obsess over social status, don't do this, don't do that, why? because that is the way it is...um? Why?

People constantly asking me what I am doing
People constantly expecting me to be trendy when I don't give a s**t about social trends and am more into doing what I actually enjoy with my time. People constantly accusing me of being dull because I don't give a s**t about said trends.
50 conversations a week about the weather. Perhaps I should develop an interest weather systems...that might shut them up, especially when I go into the technical stuff.
My not being able to get people to understand what I am talking about
People making assumptions about me

People accusing me of things I have not done, or insisting I have intentions I don't have such as being deliberately socially difficult when I don't even know what the hell I've done wrong and why exactly.

I am really confused, really tired today and I have no idea what to write down for the therapist because without know the exact cause of my problem I can't possibly know what they can do for me...

I don't even have a brain that works like others...or at least it didn't develop in quite the same way (my development was advanced in some ways but behind in others compared to my peers) so when it comes to being normal how in the hell am I supposed to be something I have never been or don't even understand.

What can the therapist do for me? I don't know. I don't know!

Socialising with the general public is often akin to going to a zoo and watching a group of chimpanzees make noises and fling s**t at each other.

It just seems pointless with all the stupid game playing. Do I really have to go through all that just to find someone nice to be with. I only really want a loving partner whom I can share some of my interests, intimacy, cuddles and mutual affection with and maybe one or two very close friends who are secure enough to enjoy life without being ego obsessed.

I have no desire to want to hang around with packs of girls trying to be trendy or cool. That is boring and I just end up wondering off to go do my own thing eventually anyway (don't try to maintain such friendships due to lack of interest in that kind of social interaction).

I don't always avoid social interaction because Im anxious, I can also avoid it because it bores me or I am just not interested.

Warning: sounds harsher than I mean it too from this point onwards.

Nor do I want to hang out with the worthless brigade. Not that I want to be mean to them, I don't but I can't empathise with them so am not able to offer them the comfort or whatever it is they need. Being around people who hate everything can be depressing and their constant need for reassurance is too hard for me to cope with. It stresses me out. I appreciate they are depressed but my mood responds to a change in circumstances whereas theirs does not. I cannot understand this in a way that allows me to be able to help them. For me it's quite simple..if you are upset over something solve the problem or change it if you can and then you won't have to be upset anymore because the issue is resolved.

They stay depressed no matter what so there is nothing you can do to help them anyway and the same therapies that work for them will not work for me. I need to solve the problem and I will obsess about it until I do.

i will no longer visit depression support groups. I am frustrated by their inability to accept the fact that I am ok with making mistakes (I see them as learning curves not crimes), do not have a fear of failure (I may dislike the consequences of failing and try to avoid them by succeeding where I can but I am not afraid of failure itself...it does not mean I am useless, or worthless, or stupid...it just means I need to review things, tweak them, continue my learning so I have more information to work with and so on...it is another learning curve) and I don't understand exactly what they mean by feelings of worthlessness.

Worthless in what way exactly? Compared to what? Based on what criteria? Where is the evidence for this? They don't make sense. Their belief system is illogical, impractical and weird. Sorry but it is...it is very very strange to me.

And why does beating oneself up help with the problem solving process? Personally I find it highly distracting and would rather focus on ascertaining the problem in a factual manner and then finding a practical solution for it. What difference is beating myself up going to make and how does it help me find a practical solution to the problem exactly?

Beating myself up isn't even a sign of remorse if I were to hurt someone or make a mistake...it's a sign of being obsessed with my own ego as opposed to showing genuine concern for the person I accidentally harmed. You are not helping that person or showing remorse by sticking your head up the arse of your own ego and wallowing in your own s**t. You are only showing concern for the self. It is a selfish approach to take basically. I appreciate you might be feeling bad over what you did, but If you want to show genuine remorse apologise sincerely and do something nice for the other individual, or try to make amends as best you can. Beating yourself helps no one and changes nothing! It is just a waste of time and won't have any real impact on anything other than wasting hours of your life insulting yourself unnecessarily.

Apart from which if it was an accident it was an accident..sometimes accidents can't be helped and no one is blame or should feel bad.

I am also sick of the new age mumbo jumbo that is going around. I don't need people to tell me to be kind to myself, I am often not as harsh as I come across in my writings online. I take a practical approach yes, but it is a gentle understanding one.

I do not push myself before I feel ready
I do not judge myself
I do not hate myself or want to hurt myself
I am not angry with myself

I am frustrated with my life and all things social. I am trying my best to do what I can at this time. There is no reason to be hard on myself. I can't do more than is physically possible for me and I am not going to push it to the point that I start to become physically ill as that is not being kind to myself at all. That is just being stupid and unwise.

If we lived in the paleolithic most people with the push yourself till you make yourself sick philosophy would have died out. Why? They would have weakened their own physical health to the point that they would have been picked off by predators. Chronically pushing yourself past your limits to the point of illness to live up to some man made culture BS is not a marker for wisdom or intelligence or even strength. It is more of a marker for idiocy.

As is beating yourself up because you can't live up to ridiculous or unrealistic expectations and making yourself sick that way.

Culture is just that...a culture. A set of beliefs defined and/or lived up to by the people who live in it. It is not some great truth about the nature of existence and all life on earth. A lot of it is bollocks actually and I can't understand how people cannot see they are being brainwashed by rubbish that has no real foundation in the reality beyond that created by the human imagination and its own egocentricity.

Ego I do what I can but within my limits. If I am too tired to chit chat, I am too tired to chit chat. If I am not feeling energetic enough to go out and party, I am not feeling energetic enough to go out and party, if I get stomach ache each time I eat pizza, I don't eat it..my body is trying to tell me something. I listen.

This is not self indulgence as people call it...its common sense.

My therapist is going to hate me because I will tear her belief system apart and nit pick.

bumble: I can understand and identify with a lot of what you have said here. You have said quite a bit so I wont respond directly, and it may not have been your expectation to. Needless to say, if you copy/paste your posts and print it out, I think you have your list to take to your therapist as a starting point.

I know what you mean about the “rub up against you like a bonobo to make you feel better”. Although they do it psychologically rather than physically. I doesn't work, and doesn't solve the problem. Ultimately nobody can tell you if therapy will be beneficial or not, and it is completely up to you. But maybe going into it open, without expectation, and seeing where it leads you is the better approach.

Indeed, but it is a hard one to take given that I have tried and failed with therapy before. They just don't understand my particular set of problems and even this therapist said I had a complicated presentation but they may be able to help with a few things.

Basically I take that to mean they don't really understand my problem or my various difficulties. They don't even understand why I don't get physical symptoms with my depression or chronic anxiety...all my physical symptoms went away when I took all chemicals out of my life and changed my diet. I only have a few sleep issues left over now and a once a month migraine with my menses.

I do not experience things like muscle pain, fatigue, lack of physical energy, joint pain, dizziness, palpitations etc or anything like that anymore. I do not have panic attack or have trouble breathing.

I might occasionally sweat in certain contexts (such as during a job interview) if I am very nervous at the time but that is about it.

Rather than getting traditional anxiety symptoms such as panic attacks when I am upset I tend to have temper outburst instead which amounts to my ranting, screaming, shouting and hitting myself on the head (not in public if I can help it...very rarely have I had such episodes in public, usually I feel it coming as I can feel myself becoming too overwhelmed, although sometimes it can surprise me. I will tend to avoid things that trigger me in order to stop them from happening at all...such as not letting myself get too upset so that I don't feel overwhelmed by my own emotions). I have had milder ones in supermarkets where I mumble to myself, slam my basket down and storm out because it was too noisy in there and there were too many people. I just get around that by shopping at quiet times or wearing headphones to shut the noise out.

I also threw my mp3 player in public recently and ranted to myself because it broke and I always have to have my music when I go out...I can sometimes put up with not having it if the battery goes flat and I can temporarily bide my time until I can recharge it but this one was broken and I didn't have the money to replace it for a few days so of course it upset me. This happened on the bus and I don't want it to happen outside again because I am sure people must have thought I was a lunatic.

I will probably buy a second mp3 player which I will keep charged up as a spare to get around that one.

I always have my music when I go out...in case it is too noisy. I also like to listen to tunes when I walk.

I am worried they might want to stop me from using avoidance. This will not work...it will over stimulate me, my emotions and set my episodes off. Eventually I have so many I burn out and go the other way...at such times I cant function or process anything, all i can do is sleep it off.

Therapy has been a nightmare for me in the past.

Interesting it said many autistic people don't have social phobia because it always seems like they do when they say how they get anxious in social situations. So that means they will be in social situations and not get anxious because they don't care about how they come off as or even think about how to act. I have suspected lot of people with ASD also have social anxiety because they are aware of their social deficits so they worry too much how to act and what people will think they avoid those situations.