Why I have to be honest and disagree with some on this board

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You are genuine and I can understand your anger.

I also know you would love to be in employment but it has not worked out for you and not for the lack of trying.

It was a struggle for me six years of getting fired it could have gone either way.

What we share in common is we have put in the effort but it will not always pay off.

But people should not give up before they even try.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but to generalize that we are all lazy is idiocy.. No one in there right mind would choose to live in this sort of poverty. I agree that if you can get a Job you should, but the way something's in this post were said I felt attacked. As I said in my first post I would give anything to not be here.. I can't handle stress, and become explosive and outright dangerous when under it. As a child I permanently disabled my aid, at work I've have had outbursts so bad that it made people flee and the police come. I've caused board meetings, been fired from more jobs then I can count and i stared trying at 18.. I have had outburst so bad on the phone so bad that sallie Mae called me psychotic in court and now no longer deals with me. Autism and the problems it's caused destroyed my life.. But dang it I tried even if I failed I tried which is more then a lot of people can say. So when some suggests I am lazy it bothers me.. In the end would you want to work someone like me? Sorry if I offended anyone I just don't appreciate being generalized as lazy..

I don't think anyone did this though.

I don't think that anyone is implying that. I can understand you feeling the way you do because so many people with disabilities are accused of that. I do believe that there is a small minority of people on disability who do not neccessarily need to be there. not because they are lazy, but because of actually being taught that they cannot. I also believe there are many on disability who would love to work if there were accomodations.

I think for some autistics self-employment might be the key [except for when self-employed, I NEVER made more than minimum wage and constantly was laid off] At the retreat in a couple of weeks, we are going to have a well-known blogger who teaches "Autistifying Your Life" I have heard that people have been able to make profoundly positive changes utilizing her methods. Last night I was thinking about self-employment [ a discussion topic at the retreat] and I am going to ask Kassianne if she has any ideas for autistifying self-employment.

When I had my own licensed daycare it was EZ to do my taxes.[ you get help with EVERYTHING you could imagine if you are a licensed daycare. Plus,little more than a sneeze will earn you a grant]] My other endeavors? Well, to tell the truth, I MIGHT have worked off the books. And maybe not. [in case anyone from the IRS is here on WP] Bookwork, keeping track of everything is SOOOOO hard for me, and I suspect for other autistics. I am hoping that Kassiane will be able to help change that for myself and other autistics, because some of us [not all of us] could do great with self-employment. Of course government assistance could make it less of a challenge, but hey, I'm not holding my breath.

I remember my mom being so proud of me when I was looking for a job while I was on SSI. I wanted to work and wanted to since I was 15 but I wasn't allowed to work. Now I was out of school, I wanted to work more hours and make more money and I didn't like being at home feeling like I'm lazy because I knew since childhood everyone has to work or you're lazy. I was shocked when mom told me how some people abuse social security by not getting a job even though they are capable of working. It always infuriates me when I see anyone say they don't want to work because it's a waste of time or they can't find a job they like or they wouldn't be able to do anything they want to do and have to miss out on events and stuff and they won't be able to have time for their interests. You do it on your days off or when you get home from work or before work. Also I would rather work minimum wage than have no money at all. At least I have a job and I would be living at home still if I didn't get any disability payments and I would apply for section 8 and other programs that are out here to help me with my finances and screw anyone who says this is abuse and screw if anyone is against adults still living at home with their parents.

I am not talking about people who are unable to work or can't find a job. Some people do need support getting one and need help to get their life together and move forward and that is nearly impossible to do if you have parents who don't help you so you are stuck at home doing nothing because you don't know where to start.

Also I can't even not work or I would get bored because of too much time on my hands so I need employment and part time is enough for me to not feel bored and I won't feel I have too much time on my hands. My husband hates not working and he can't work due to his condition and it was him trying to work full time is what got him this bad so they laid him off for safety reasons because of his feet and seizures and it was a health hazard and safety hazard for him and higher risk for death. I know lot of disabled people who are not able to work do want to work and wish they could so I am sure it would be insulting for them to see anyone with a disability saying how they don't want to work for the reasons I already listed in my first paragraph.

It is all very easy to say in hindsight, that if X had been done then Y would have been the result. But it is not so clear, and at best a crapshoot.

I was oblivious to my shortcomings and blamed my family for their reactions to and treatment of me. I was very rigid and obsessive in my thinking. But the flip side of my obliviousness was that I kept on going no matter what. I didn't realize that my lack of friendships were my fault, I just figured that other circumstances were what made people have friends with others except me. I didn't think that lack of romance was because of me, I figured it was because I was a different nationality (despite others of my nationality hooking up just fine). It never occurred to me that my behavior drove people away or made people want to hurt me, because if they teased me, I figured it was because they didn't like me because of some other arbitrary reason. This thinking had its positives and negatives. It caused a significant delay in my being aware of my own behavior with other people and how offensive I may have been. The lack of insight made me make the same mistakes over and over again, unable to form a real relationship with a person and deep friendships. Being a girl, I could get laid but I couldn't keep anyone's interest. I looked to books and advice columns to help me. I was 27 before I had my first real serious long-term relationship. If I had known back then that I had a diagnosis, I think it could have affected me adversely. I think I wouldn't have had the same sense of being able to determine my own future nor be as willing to take risks. And without taking risks I wouldn't have been able to learn from mistakes.

I started working when I was 13 as a cashier. It was a huge boost to my self-esteem. I didn't have the people skills but I was good with memorizing numbers and was proud that I was fast on a cash register and could make change in my head. Unfortunately I did get sexually molested on the job, but again, I was so oblivious for years I thought that it was normal and I was smart and the one who determined my path, despite my incomprehensible feelings of shame that surfaced years later. But this experience made me realize that I could do a job well and was employable. Subsequent failures at jobs were never thought of as failing because I couldn't do it. Many times it was exactly that, but I brushed myself off and looked for the next job. As a kid, there are endless jobs that grownups don't want to do, so I was eager to do them all and make money if I could. This overconfidence had some positive points and simultaneous negative ones. People did try to inject reality into my head but I felt they were just trying to hold me back, and I would get angry at them. Maybe it was simply the luxury of youth to be able to fall flat on one's face over and over again, I don't know. I do think though, that in safe environments, having autistic kids learn some sort of job or trade at an early age is good policy, as most adults would be more forgiving of a child than an adult making the same mistakes, and it is good preparation for the long term. Even if it is sweeping floors in the neighbors' garages or raking leaves, every positive experience builds upon the next. I plan on teaching my kids early too, as soon as they learn the connection between money and their special interests

Just going to add that I didn't think anyone was implying anyone else was lazy.

The original question in the other thread, though, was not whether or not the OP in that thread should get a job, pay his own bills, etc. The issue was whether or not it was appropriate for the physician to tell him that he should, and do so in a rather insensitive way. The physician is no more qualified to comment on that person's life, finances, job prospects, etc. than a plumber who comes around to fix the sink, or the mechanic that does a bit of automotive repair for the family. If the family had a cleaning lady who said that sort of thing, it would be considered totally out of line. A physician should be no different. That kind of treatment from a physician is abusing a position of trust where there is a significant power differential and is professionally inappropriate.

The intentions of the physician are irrelevant. The road to hell, etc. etc. At most, a gentle inquiry into the patient's actual circumstances might be appropriate IF it is related to the physical complaint. A lecture about being a leech is not.

Summary:

1. People, themselves and for others, should always treat things like SSI as dealing with symptoms, not from a diagnosis, and as a last resort.

2. To make the first half of (1) more explicit, some people with autism have symptoms that will prevent them from being able to work; some don't. The diagnosis doesn't tell you which set someone is in. Every person should not assume the diagnosis says you are in EITHER set.

3. People do go through and try. Needing to go into mandatory poverty is not fun. Sometimes its the best option for people because they are not capable of working.

4. Sometimes people are able to work after not being able to work.

5. Encouraging people to figure out how to be the best at they are for themselves is good. Saying that people in general shouldn't be on SSI is bad.

6. Realize what you are doing if you're applying for SSI. It is mandatory poverty.

7. People should not be lectured for being lazy.

This is what is scary.

Your last parent dies.

You are bundled up in a car and dropped off at the local emergency room with an envelope given to you by a sibling say, "He's not my problem. Going back home (out of state), you deal with him now."

Your parents left the sibs the house. Not you. All you have is whatever in that backpack of yours.

No job.
No friends.
No relatives.
No place to go.

You are 58 years old.

This happened at our hospital. The guy probably did have Aspergers. He lingered around for two weeks before the was make a ward of the state and placed in a group home.

I'm guessing the parents thought the sibs would let the brother stay in the house.

I've seen this go on with senior citizens. It's called grandma dumping. Happened at my ER more than a few time.

I had that same kind of lecture when going to a doctor (actually they were a nurse practitioner). It was mean and insulting and just made me give up on finding the medical care which they did not give me.

I feel the same way about work. I'd be lucky to get a minimum wage job and keep it and neither ssi or a minimum wage job would let me support myself. I figure that I can't live on less than $1200 a month if my mother was gone and I had to support myself and even that might not be enough. My simple imaginary budget is just rent, utilities, phone/internet, and food.

This post has been reposted at this link:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5900428.html#5900428 and the post immediately thereafter.

Last edited by Verdandi on 08 Feb 2014, 2:57 am, edited 3 times in total.

The above post is hidden because of the links I included to cite information I included in my response to LostInSpace as to why the "millennials are lazy" nonsense is wrong and misguided, and requires ignoring actual history in order to even see it as remotely plausible. I included ~12 links to articles about the US economy citing the shift from a manufacturing economy to a service economy, the existence of programs that provided jobs for people who needed them and that paid living wages. Cited how corporations are siphoning off taxpayer money by paying workers a subpoverty minimum wage that requires them to turn to government safety net programs to make up the lack. Cited how the union busting over the past couple of decades have made it harder for employees to exert any leverage, how corporations even punish employees for trying to organize with unions. Cited how there are three people looking for work for every available job there is, meaning that unemployment for many is guaranteed.

I forgot to include fun things like how businesses have started to do credit checks on prospective employees, which bars even more people from work - especially all those college students who can't afford to pay their student loans back because they can't get a decent job, and because tuition is too high. Okay, I did include that. Also, that the bottom 80% of the population has 7% of the wealth while the top 1% has 42% of the wealth. And the top 20% has 93% of the wealth.

Basically, if you think the problem with unemployment is that people do not want to work, it is impossible for you to be correct in any way.

Congratulations, America is a corporate dystopia. But people actually believe the problem is that millennials are too lazy. Congratulations again, you were conned into believing lies.

Also, I'm 44 years old. I'm "generation X." I am not a millennial myself, so I am not even arguing this because I have any investment in how millennials are characterized (or rather, mischaracterized). I am just gobsmacked that people can actually believe all those things.

Oh yeah, you can just quote the post to see it in full. I'll see about putting it on a blog site or something that isn't guarded by captcha incompetence.

I agree with this. It's a good summary.

The OP of the other thread whose doctor told him to not be lazy and get a job ect. perhaps could NOT work because of his particular symptoms and situation.

Also, invoking the argument that "kids today are lazy, not like they were 50 years ago" in a thread on a forum aimed at people whose demographic is 90% unemployed or underemployed because it is extremely difficult for them to get hired and keep those jobs once hired for a long list of reasons is unnecessarily harsh.