Getting a bit sick of the Pro-Marijuana culture...

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Toy_Soldier
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11 Apr 2014, 11:45 am

neobluex wrote:
1) "Anti" movements also are blind, like political ideologies.

2) When I say "blind" I refer to an ideology that won't accept opposition despite adverse consequences (Example: ther have been studies about the adverse effect of cannabis, but some people don't believe them or try to refute them using fallacies).

3) Obviously not all "Pro" and "Anti" people and use the mentioned methods.

4) I prefer to make a decision considering the pros and cons, the context, and the long-term effects ("I'm against..." or "I'm in favor of..." sound less strong than the other "absolute terms)


Well said.

Lets call it what it is. Yes there are probably beneficial uses (ie. Medical), but that is not what the vast majority do and shall use it for. It is basically just another drug to get high off of and/or self medicate with. As such it joins Tobacco and Alcohol.

So the ATF will become the AWTF.

I don't have a problem with that. Its about the same level drug as alcohol and yes will likely have bad side effects. But that should be an individuals choice, not government's. And prohibition doesn't work.

But do hold the line against what is objectively harmful, counterproductive, etc. (such as prohibiting driving while intoxicated, or drinking on the job, etc).



OddFiction
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11 Apr 2014, 1:41 pm

I have a very simple problem with weed.
My neighbours downstairs sell and smoke the stuff every day.
It comes thru the air vents.
It comes out their door and thru the hall and into my apartment, under the door.
I can't open windows to air my place out because it is (or was) winter (40 below zero).

And it has seriously affected my mind, my concentration, and even my ability to sleep. The fact of this is not up for debate.

Plus it smells.
And I have to listen to them "hua hua hua" coughing until 3 in the morning...

So I'm against legalization until we remove inconsiderate neighbors from the planet.
Which means you should be able to legalize it by the year 3048. After the Apocalypse.



Callista
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11 Apr 2014, 2:00 pm

It's not just weed. It's loud music, chain-smoking, wild partying after midnight, not dealing with your flea or roach problem... General asshattery.

I don't think keeping weed illegal will stop people from being inconsiderate to their neighbors. I don't think legalizing it will cause people to be more inconsiderate.

It does need to be covered in "secondhand smoke" laws, though. People shouldn't have to breathe it unless they want to--especially since, as you note, it causes some degree of impairment. It makes driving unsafe. People who are unwillingly exposed to secondhand smoke may be totally inexperienced with weed in general and have no idea how they're being affected--may even be particularly sensitive. That's just asking for trouble.

I don't think making it legal would change things like nasty neighbors sending it through the air vents, but other legislation aimed at making sure people only get exposed to it if they *want* to be--that makes sense to me. Getting high off somebody else's joint just does not sound fun to me--I like my brain the way it is, thank you; and besides, caffeine is my drug of choice.


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RobKarmic
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11 Apr 2014, 2:00 pm

Willard wrote:
I don't have an issue with MJ itself, gods know I smoked acres of it in my youth and had a grand old time doing it. I don't have a social circle these days, so there's no access to it, but I'd certainly be grateful to have it available to me as an anxiety med, though you can't use it and drive anywhere.

That said, after all these years that it has taken the American public to come around to understanding that it is not the dangerous narcotic that their government led them to believe that it was, I thought it would actually be a great thing when it was finally decriminalized. Now that such a thing seems more imminent than it has since the 1960s, I have mixed emotions about seeing the prohibition end.

On the one hand, marijuana is physically and mentally harmless, and there's no doubt about that. I did my share of judicious experimenting over the years and there are far more toxic and harmful consciousness-altering things, chemically speaking, that one could ingest recreationally, not the least of which is alcohol.

On the other hand, I fear that it is being intentionally used as a political tool, at a time when we have a generation of young adults more materialistically spoiled, more socially complacent and more politically ignorant than this nation has ever seen before. A generation that neither fully understands nor values the liberties guaranteed to them by the United States' unique Constitution, and who are oblivious to the current undermining of that entire system by elitists quite literally intent on enslaving them.

I think it's happening at this particular time, not because the public is demanding it - the media is telling the public that they're demanding it - frankly, if the pot smoking public had had the motivation to get off the couch and demand it, it probably would have happened decades ago - rather, it's being pushed now as a tool to keep the masses dulled and unconcerned and non-resistant as the last of their freedoms are removed.

And that is not something to be celebrated.


Well I agree with you do a point but saying that marijuana is physically and mentally harmless is simply untrue and impossible for ANYTHING you could put into your body. I dunno if anyones actually said this before but I say it a lot

"Everything is poison; the only thing that changes is the harmful dose." - Me

Everything ESPECIALLY mind altering drugs are addictive.. hell, if you drink twice your normal water intake for 2 weeks and try to go back to your normal amounts you'll show signs of addiction TO WATER! and if you drink too much water you'll die of a chemical imbalance(same thing the Chinese nobility killed themselves with only they used sodium instead of water) yeah I drink and use weed when I can get my hands on it (a difficult thing for an aspie to do I bet you know) but I'm not stupid if you smoke it you're putting particles of smoke into your lungs which isn't absorbed at a safe rate(ever met someone with lung cancer?) now of course other ways like vaporizing and eating it are safer but that doesn't mean they're risk free you'd have to be a clueless fool to think so but the dangers of weed are essentially the same from smoking a cigarette or drinking they'll all kill you eventually



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11 Apr 2014, 2:10 pm

Everything's dangerous. Yeah, salt can kill you; it's been used as a murder weapon.

I don't like the way people ignore the risks, acting as though it's a panacea for everything, never hurts anyone, and is generally so beneficial that it might as well be a vitamin. That's unrealistic and kind of stupid. And it doesn't help their case any, to be spouting such unrealistically positive things. Nobody buys it, because it's just not true.

There are risks. Teenager spends all his time getting high; teenager's grades drop; teenager fails at school. There's a risk. Or he goes and gets in his car, and his reaction time's too slow for him to hit the brakes and avoid hitting the stupid pedestrian that just ran out into the road in front of him. Another risk. Some people are sensitive. There are mental illnesses that can be made worse. Some people react to it with paranoia and general panic, which isn't pleasant. And yeah, you're putting smoke in your lungs--not as badly as a chain-smoker, not so many chemical additives, but yeah, it's still smoke and it's still not going to be kind to your alveoli.

A thing doesn't have to be totally safe to be considered for legalization. If that were true, it'd be illegal to drive a car without an extensive training course that certified you as an expert driver. We'd have to outlaw swimming pools, pets, and any food product that could possibly ever be contaminated with bacteria. We'd be passing laws that say everybody has to eat healthy and exercise. The question isn't: Is it risky? But, Is the risk acceptable?


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11 Apr 2014, 2:11 pm

RobKarmic wrote:
Willard wrote:
I don't have an issue with MJ itself, gods know I smoked acres of it in my youth and had a grand old time doing it. I don't have a social circle these days, so there's no access to it, but I'd certainly be grateful to have it available to me as an anxiety med, though you can't use it and drive anywhere.

That said, after all these years that it has taken the American public to come around to understanding that it is not the dangerous narcotic that their government led them to believe that it was, I thought it would actually be a great thing when it was finally decriminalized. Now that such a thing seems more imminent than it has since the 1960s, I have mixed emotions about seeing the prohibition end.

On the one hand, marijuana is physically and mentally harmless, and there's no doubt about that. I did my share of judicious experimenting over the years and there are far more toxic and harmful consciousness-altering things, chemically speaking, that one could ingest recreationally, not the least of which is alcohol.

On the other hand, I fear that it is being intentionally used as a political tool, at a time when we have a generation of young adults more materialistically spoiled, more socially complacent and more politically ignorant than this nation has ever seen before. A generation that neither fully understands nor values the liberties guaranteed to them by the United States' unique Constitution, and who are oblivious to the current undermining of that entire system by elitists quite literally intent on enslaving them.

I think it's happening at this particular time, not because the public is demanding it - the media is telling the public that they're demanding it - frankly, if the pot smoking public had had the motivation to get off the couch and demand it, it probably would have happened decades ago - rather, it's being pushed now as a tool to keep the masses dulled and unconcerned and non-resistant as the last of their freedoms are removed.

And that is not something to be celebrated.


Well I agree with you do a point but saying that marijuana is physically and mentally harmless is simply untrue and impossible for ANYTHING you could put into your body. I dunno if anyones actually said this before but I say it a lot

"Everything is poison; the only thing that changes is the harmful dose." - Me

Everything ESPECIALLY mind altering drugs are addictive.. hell, if you drink twice your normal water intake for 2 weeks and try to go back to your normal amounts you'll show signs of addiction TO WATER! and if you drink too much water you'll die of a chemical imbalance(same thing the Chinese nobility killed themselves with only they used sodium instead of water) yeah I drink and use weed when I can get my hands on it (a difficult thing for an aspie to do I bet you know) but I'm not stupid if you smoke it you're putting particles of smoke into your lungs which isn't absorbed at a safe rate(ever met someone with lung cancer?) now of course other ways like vaporizing and eating it are safer but that doesn't mean they're risk free you'd have to be a clueless fool to think so but the dangers of weed are essentially the same from smoking a cigarette or drinking they'll all kill you eventually


Actually studies seem to indicate marijuana is safer than cigarettes and drinking....but of course it still has dangers. Never heard of anyone dying from marijuana as a direct cause, but ciggerettes are linked to lung cancer and alcohol can cause liver damage.


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11 Apr 2014, 3:58 pm

It's a matter of degree. It's much easier to die from too much cyanide than too much water. And, I suppose if you really wanted to, you could kill yourself with too much THC... but you'd have to purify it and drink it by the cupful, or put it in an IV or something, because you'd probably pass out before you got a lethal dose.

Dying from poisoning yourself with weed is just really hard to do, hard enough that it probably hasn't been done; hard enough that direct toxicity isn't going to be the issue that we need to address when we talk about the possible dangers. More likely, we'd have to look at interactions with prescription drugs, the effect in people with neurological and physiological illness, the effect of slowed reflexes and impaired judgment on driving and other processing-intensive tasks, the possibility of adverse reactions, the possibility of psychological addiction. (I am told that physical addiction is uncommon, and weak even if it does happen, and have no reason to doubt that; but psychological addiction is possible and probably common.) There's also the problem of people self-medicating instead of getting more useful and effective medical or psychological care.


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11 Apr 2014, 4:03 pm

if carl sagan [RIP] were not a lifelong pot smoker, I wonder if he would have lived longer. he died of blood cancer. he was only 63. I think it would be illuminating if a longtitudinal health study of pot smokers versus non-smokers in general were done.



Acedia
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11 Apr 2014, 5:42 pm

Not entirely against it, but I have seen people become addicted to it and their mental health deteriorate. So I'm not entirely pro either.

I guess like all things, moderation is important.



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11 Apr 2014, 5:53 pm

auntblabby wrote:
if carl sagan [RIP] were not a lifelong pot smoker, I wonder if he would have lived longer. he died of blood cancer. he was only 63. I think it would be illuminating if a longtitudinal health study of pot smokers versus non-smokers in general were done.


i invested in a vaporiser for the sake of my lungs--it's made a huge difference already and i've only had it for a few weeks now. :thumleft:



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11 Apr 2014, 5:57 pm

maybe a vitamix would be useful to turn it into pot juice- a euphoric elixir, as it were.



mr_bigmouth_502
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11 Apr 2014, 6:35 pm

auntblabby wrote:
maybe a vitamix would be useful to turn it into pot juice- a euphoric elixir, as it were.


Doesn't THC have to be heated or cooked into something to work though?



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11 Apr 2014, 6:42 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
maybe a vitamix would be useful to turn it into pot juice- a euphoric elixir, as it were.


Doesn't THC have to be heated or cooked into something to work though?

a vitamix makes stuff boiling hot through the friction generated by its hammermill blades.



mr_bigmouth_502
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11 Apr 2014, 6:49 pm

auntblabby wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
maybe a vitamix would be useful to turn it into pot juice- a euphoric elixir, as it were.


Doesn't THC have to be heated or cooked into something to work though?

a vitamix makes stuff boiling hot through the friction generated by its hammermill blades.


I just looked it up, and I have to say, that's pretty amazing! I never would have known it would be possible to make a blender that can also cook things.



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11 Apr 2014, 6:51 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
maybe a vitamix would be useful to turn it into pot juice- a euphoric elixir, as it were.


Doesn't THC have to be heated or cooked into something to work though?

a vitamix makes stuff boiling hot through the friction generated by its hammermill blades.


I just looked it up, and I have to say, that's pretty amazing! I never would have known it would be possible to make a blender that can also cook things.

if you have a cool $500 burning a hot hole in your wallet you too can have one of your very own.



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11 Apr 2014, 10:33 pm

I don't believe there any real drawback to marijuana besides maybe to my short term memory, there certainly isn't any reason for anybody to be opposed to it in my opinion. I believe it helps me medicinally and I use it for recreational reasons as well. It's helped me socialize with my brothers immensely, there was a time where we couldn't be in the same room together. It helps me not to think so rigidly and from other perspectives, to be more self-aware, helped me stop drinking(something I thought I was bordering on a real problem) and makes my boring dull life not seem so bad for a couple hours. I honestly wish I started smoking years before I did, I think almost anybody could find benefits in it if they wanted to. I don't think it works miracles or anything, I still would go to the doctor if I had to.

And not liking Bob Marley? Come on man!