Getting a bit sick of the Pro-Marijuana culture...

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vickygleitz
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11 Apr 2014, 11:12 pm

My son is alive because of marijuana. That to me is a miracle.[ yes. I live in Colorado]



Sweetleaf
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11 Apr 2014, 11:37 pm

Callista wrote:
There's also the problem of people self-medicating instead of getting more useful and effective medical or psychological care.


At the same time sometimes they are self medicating with it because the pharmaceutical psych meds don't work, so I think in some situations the marijuana is the more useful option and tends to have less side effects than a lot of them. Of course there are some self medicating with it that maybe could have more effective treatment....then there are maybe people in physical pain that can't get a prescription for pain pills might turn to cannabis as an option. I don't know self medicating is fairly complex as far as reasons why it happens or whether or not there would be a more effective medication for instance.

For instance I have an aunt who self medicates with cannabis(she might have her mmj card now though), if she doesn't medicate with cannabis she'd have to take 3 pills that she can't function on....with the cannabis it takes care of her issue so she can function well.


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Rascal77s
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12 Apr 2014, 5:24 am

Let's not confuse self-medicating with substance abuse, as is so often done. Humans have been self-medicating since we've been humans. Widespread access to organized medical care has only been around for less than a century. That's a tiny fraction of human history. Most people in the world today Self medicate. I don't know how this term came to have negative connotations. Do people think that humans who self medicated for 200,000 years, and survived just fine as a species, became too stupid to know what makes us feel better in the last hundred years? When you drink a cup of coffee you self medicate. When you drink a glass of wine to relax at the end of the day you self medicate. When you take an aspirin because you have a headache you self medicate. Yet all of these things will kill you if you abuse them. See the difference?



Verdandi
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12 Apr 2014, 8:05 am

Oh but see, doctors are too quick to prescribe medications, and self-medication is bad.

Apparently, homeopathy is the only logical solution.



Adamantium
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12 Apr 2014, 8:53 am

Verdandi wrote:
Oh but see, doctors are too quick to prescribe medications, and self-medication is bad.

Apparently, homeopathy is the only logical solution.


You are forgetting the breatharian solution!
Cures 100% of problems if you just give it enough time. Truly effective self-medication.



Sweetleaf
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12 Apr 2014, 9:43 am

starvingartist wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
if carl sagan [RIP] were not a lifelong pot smoker, I wonder if he would have lived longer. he died of blood cancer. he was only 63. I think it would be illuminating if a longtitudinal health study of pot smokers versus non-smokers in general were done.


i invested in a vaporiser for the sake of my lungs--it's made a huge difference already and i've only had it for a few weeks now. :thumleft:


I got a vape pen, so I can try and go a little easier on my lungs since thus far I have only really smoked it, have had edibles a couple times. I don't plan to entirely switch to vaping but I like to have the option...only problem is this one only works with wax(a type of hash for people who don't know) I'd have to get another one for if I wanted to use it for smoking bud.


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Sweetleaf
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12 Apr 2014, 9:45 am

Rascal77s wrote:
Let's not confuse self-medicating with substance abuse, as is so often done. Humans have been self-medicating since we've been humans. Widespread access to organized medical care has only been around for less than a century. That's a tiny fraction of human history. Most people in the world today Self medicate. I don't know how this term came to have negative connotations. Do people think that humans who self medicated for 200,000 years, and survived just fine as a species, became too stupid to know what makes us feel better in the last hundred years? When you drink a cup of coffee you self medicate. When you drink a glass of wine to relax at the end of the day you self medicate. When you take an aspirin because you have a headache you self medicate. Yet all of these things will kill you if you abuse them. See the difference?

+1


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RobKarmic
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12 Apr 2014, 10:57 am

Callista wrote:
It's a matter of degree. It's much easier to die from too much cyanide than too much water. And, I suppose if you really wanted to, you could kill yourself with too much THC... but you'd have to purify it and drink it by the cupful, or put it in an IV or something, because you'd probably pass out before you got a lethal dose.

Dying from poisoning yourself with weed is just really hard to do, hard enough that it probably hasn't been done; hard enough that direct toxicity isn't going to be the issue that we need to address when we talk about the possible dangers. More likely, we'd have to look at interactions with prescription drugs, the effect in people with neurological and physiological illness, the effect of slowed reflexes and impaired judgment on driving and other processing-intensive tasks, the possibility of adverse reactions, the possibility of psychological addiction. (I am told that physical addiction is uncommon, and weak even if it does happen, and have no reason to doubt that; but psychological addiction is possible and probably common.) There's also the problem of people self-medicating instead of getting more useful and effective medical or psychological care.


You know I bet the reason why nobody has killed themselves with THC is related to not remembering what you're doing I mean I think if you consumed enough you might just get lost into the walls or something and stop consuming it



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12 Apr 2014, 11:03 am

auntblabby wrote:
maybe a vitamix would be useful to turn it into pot juice- a euphoric elixir, as it were.


I've only had edibles once and it took 45 minutes to notice anything and it was so small I was actually questioning if it was just a placebo or not well about 2 hours later I was still sort of high but not really so I ate another of the firecrackers(I had zero tolerance and it was about .5 grams per was scared of getting too high) and I was blazed for the rest of the day was really nice

I can only imagine a drink like alcohol but instead of having alcohol it was 40% THC and drinking a shot of it then not feeling anything for an hour and then trying to drink more... oh god you'd be freaking out



RobKarmic
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12 Apr 2014, 11:06 am

vickygleitz wrote:
My son is alive because of marijuana. That to me is a miracle.[ yes. I live in Colorado]


I'm assuming you're talking about a self harm case?



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12 Apr 2014, 11:18 am

RobKarmic wrote:
You know I bet the reason why nobody has killed themselves with THC is related to not remembering what you're doing I mean I think if you consumed enough you might just get lost into the walls or something and stop consuming it


The only possible way I really see for someone to die from marijuana is if you concentrate the THC(a very, very strong concentrate) and make it into an inject-able form and take it that way, but I am still not sure if it would result in death or if they'd still just throw up and pass out. There are memes on the internet of 'stop injecting marijuanas' or I think one said 'I injected 2 whole marijuanas and died' essentially I think its joking about how its supposedly a highly dangerous drug and how the government has it classified as being up there with heroin...also though a number of those psychedelics should not be classed with that either but they are all scedule 1.

Intresting thing about cannabis is while it can help nausea if you have too much it seems to have the opposite effect.


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Callista
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12 Apr 2014, 11:54 am

There's an LD50 for THC tested in rats, and it's actually less than pure alcohol (meaning that pure THC is more poisonous than pure alcohol). Thing is, there's much less THC in marijuana than there is alcohol in an alcoholic beverage. You could easily kill yourself with pure THC, but as for the actual plant, a person would be too dozy to smoke more long before it got toxic, and as for eating it, the human stomach simply won't hold enough to kill someone. It's the same reason you can kill yourself by swallowing a bottle of caffeine pills, but not by drinking a gallon of coffee--there's not enough room in your stomach for a toxic dose of coffee. But of course that's just acute toxicity. Long-term, smoking anything will damage your lungs. Plus there's the possibility that it changes brain chemistry after prolonged heavy use.

But this has been gone over a dozen times. Can we agree that acute toxicity really isn't the issue here? Long-term exposure, side effects, interactions with other drugs, and stoned drivers with slowed reaction times are much more of an issue than that. And it does suppress nausea, which is a good thing for chemotherapy patients and people with AIDS, but not too good for someone who needs to throw up to get rid of, say, a bellyful of too much alcohol.

It's not safe. It's not unacceptably dangerous either. We have to weigh not just the risks of legalizing it, but the risks of keeping it illegal. Whichever one actually happens, I have no desire to try it; it just doesn't appeal to me. Even medicinal use may come with unacceptable side effects for many people. When we take psych meds and they make us feel sleepy and loopy, we don't usually like that because we're trying to get on with our lives. Same goes for medical marijuana--those side effects might be desirable for recreational users, but they're not going to be very useful for everyday life. Maybe a chemical can be found that is similar to the naturally-occurring stuff, which allows for the positive effects without the undesirable change in cognition.


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Sweetleaf
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12 Apr 2014, 11:59 am

Callista wrote:
But this has been gone over a dozen times. Can we agree that acute toxicity really isn't the issue here? Long-term exposure, side effects, interactions with other drugs, and stoned drivers with slowed reaction times are much more of an issue than that. And it does suppress nausea, which is a good thing for chemotherapy patients and people with AIDS, but not too good for someone who needs to throw up to get rid of, say, a bellyful of too much alcohol.


Not so sure it works quite like that, based on observation and experience you simply might not feel the nausea making but you're still likely to throw up if you drink too much just may not feel it coming on and end up throwing up somewhere embarrassing..


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12 Apr 2014, 1:16 pm

From my experience and observation it is no worse then alcohol as far as negative effects and side effects.

One of the best arguments for legalization to me was removing it as a money maker for organized crime. It seemed that keeping it illegal only promoted and increased gangs/cartels much like 'Prohibition' did in the USA in the 1920's and 30's.

I had friends wearing those NORML T-shirts back almost at the beginning. I remember thinking it was only a matter of time before it was legalized, for decriminalization came fairly quickly in some states. But I would not have guessed then, that it would take so long.



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12 Apr 2014, 1:34 pm

were it not for the oil companies, it would likely NOT have been banned in the first place.



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12 Apr 2014, 1:59 pm

I'm middle of the road on this issue. I have no interest in trying it or any other drugs/alcohol myself because I've got a lot of family members who are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol and have basically ruined their lives, so I choose to stay far away myself. However, I know it can be very helpful for some people, is fairly safe, and legalizing it would cut down on illegal activity and free up jail cells for people who commit worse crimes.

I worry about second hand smoke. I've been so glad that cigarette smoking has been decreasing but now marijuana smoking will be increasing if it's legalized. I can't stand any kind of smoke, and I don't want to breathe it in or smell it in public places. I also worry about an increase in dangerous driving and car accidents that it might cause because not everyone is responsible.

So yeah, middle of the road and so I probably just won't vote on the issue if it comes up in my state.