Falseness in People
14 May 2014, 7:46 pm
Quantum wrote:
Oh great...
It's quite irrelevant to steretype the majority of the human population when their brains social function differs a lot. You can't assume that NT's are like this and that, that would remove the complexity of our psychological behaviour and that would cause it to be simplyfied to the degree that everyone is similiar to each other which is very absurd. So please stop assuming that every Aspie is like this and that and NT's this and that.
We're just inferiour creatures, we even allegedly assume that we are to be considered as being intelligent creatures, but it's a matter of fact that it might be the other way around. My only logical point is that us, humans, stereotyping and categorizing outselves won't serve us anything, it's only problematic for us in that case as we express our narrow way of thinking. Just stop it, DON'T stereotype.
Yeah I might be an NT, does that differentiate me in comparision with a functional Autistic person? Yes it does on a neurological scale if you're excluding the brains appearance itself. We're still the same non the less. Humans. We're all different on a certain degree and I forgot to mention something, WHO cares about you, me or us? No one, we are just matter, so therefore stereotyping is just plain bad if you're very expressive about it.
Do you really think that having sub-categorized races based on humanity is an exeptionally good suggestion? No, we're all the same. The "Bla bla vs Bla bla" is really infuriating, in this senario about you that actually appreciate that way of thinking, congratulations, you just described yourself as an NT, because "NT's are doing that particular act, for example, wanting to be social and fitting in the society". No difference.
It's quite irrelevant to steretype the majority of the human population when their brains social function differs a lot. You can't assume that NT's are like this and that, that would remove the complexity of our psychological behaviour and that would cause it to be simplyfied to the degree that everyone is similiar to each other which is very absurd. So please stop assuming that every Aspie is like this and that and NT's this and that.
We're just inferiour creatures, we even allegedly assume that we are to be considered as being intelligent creatures, but it's a matter of fact that it might be the other way around. My only logical point is that us, humans, stereotyping and categorizing outselves won't serve us anything, it's only problematic for us in that case as we express our narrow way of thinking. Just stop it, DON'T stereotype.
Yeah I might be an NT, does that differentiate me in comparision with a functional Autistic person? Yes it does on a neurological scale if you're excluding the brains appearance itself. We're still the same non the less. Humans. We're all different on a certain degree and I forgot to mention something, WHO cares about you, me or us? No one, we are just matter, so therefore stereotyping is just plain bad if you're very expressive about it.
Do you really think that having sub-categorized races based on humanity is an exeptionally good suggestion? No, we're all the same. The "Bla bla vs Bla bla" is really infuriating, in this senario about you that actually appreciate that way of thinking, congratulations, you just described yourself as an NT, because "NT's are doing that particular act, for example, wanting to be social and fitting in the society". No difference.
I don't like the term NT either. But I think as we're trying to figure things out, we're gonna generalize and categorize, and try to put everything in order. I just don't alienating myself from someone who is "NT" because I don't understand their behavior. I suppose anyone can "learn" how to socialize, and those "NTs" who are behaving in ways I don't understand, they just learned how to to do it. And I'm on the outside, observing, and see it as strange or whatever, maybe if they were on the outside, observing, they may also see what we're describing in this thread as "fake." They may also see it as fake, but it may not bother them, they may see it as neccessary.
I guess another way to explain what I just said, there is the analysis of the behavior the OP described. If some of us are very rigid with rules, then the "fake" behavior is incorrect. And if some of us are very strict about morality, then the incorrect behavior is also immoral. Which leads to the emotional reaction to it by calling it "fake" and emoting over it. We don't know the motivation for why the person is fake or lies, that person could be motivated by fear of not being liked, the person is protecting themselves from a percieved threat that doesn't exist. I grew up with kids who lied about everything, they weren't trying to manipulate me, they were trying to protect their ego from pain.....so....I dunno, Im not sure aboiut this whole NT thing either.....
_________________
?Being happy doesn't mean that everything is perfect. It means that you've decided to look beyond the imperfections.?
15 May 2014, 12:19 am
People's falseness has always bugged me too! I have been in so many situations where people have suggested something, I have indicated I am not interested in their suggestion or otherwise disagree with it and then they pretend it was just a joke to begin with! I would much rather approach it head on and make actual progress on the topic and use our differences to develop a better understanding of one another...
It also becomes frustrating to me when everyone is speaking about something in a removed way or in metaphor not because it is better or more eloquently explained that way, but because it is somehow seen as a more socially acceptable way to say what they are saying... My response to this has usually been to drop the pretense entirely and just say what I am thinking about what everyone is saying in an open and direct way, but this seems to shock people and make them rather angry. Why make a big song and dance about pretending you're not doing what everyone knows you are doing? To me it is absurd.
knowbody15 wrote:
I agree. And sometimes it bothers me, and other times I just don't understand it. For me personally, thinking about myself as an objective observer, I can take these kinds of behaviors in and examine them without emoting. It's someting that most of us wouldn't do, but other people do, for some reason. And then the "why" becomes interesting, and you've taken yourself out of the emotional "reaction" and into logical observation....if that makes any sense lol
I often do exactly this, but I pretend the people are monkeys. For some reason it all makes even more sense when I do this.
Quantum wrote:
Oh great...
It's quite irrelevant to steretype the majority of the human population when their brains social function differs a lot. You can't assume that NT's are like this and that, that would remove the complexity of our psychological behaviour and that would cause it to be simplyfied to the degree that everyone is similiar to each other which is very absurd. So please stop assuming that every Aspie is like this and that and NT's this and that.
We're just inferiour creatures, we even allegedly assume that we are to be considered as being intelligent creatures, but it's a matter of fact that it might be the other way around. My only logical point is that us, humans, stereotyping and categorizing outselves won't serve us anything, it's only problematic for us in that case as we express our narrow way of thinking. Just stop it, DON'T stereotype.
Yeah I might be an NT, does that differentiate me in comparision with a functional Autistic person? Yes it does on a neurological scale if you're excluding the brains appearance itself. We're still the same non the less. Humans. We're all different on a certain degree and I forgot to mention something, WHO cares about you, me or us? No one, we are just matter, so therefore stereotyping is just plain bad if you're very expressive about it.
Do you really think that having sub-categorized races based on humanity is an exeptionally good suggestion? No, we're all the same. The "Bla bla vs Bla bla" is really infuriating, in this senario about you that actually appreciate that way of thinking, congratulations, you just described yourself as an NT, because "NT's are doing that particular act, for example, wanting to be social and fitting in the society". No difference.
It's quite irrelevant to steretype the majority of the human population when their brains social function differs a lot. You can't assume that NT's are like this and that, that would remove the complexity of our psychological behaviour and that would cause it to be simplyfied to the degree that everyone is similiar to each other which is very absurd. So please stop assuming that every Aspie is like this and that and NT's this and that.
We're just inferiour creatures, we even allegedly assume that we are to be considered as being intelligent creatures, but it's a matter of fact that it might be the other way around. My only logical point is that us, humans, stereotyping and categorizing outselves won't serve us anything, it's only problematic for us in that case as we express our narrow way of thinking. Just stop it, DON'T stereotype.
Yeah I might be an NT, does that differentiate me in comparision with a functional Autistic person? Yes it does on a neurological scale if you're excluding the brains appearance itself. We're still the same non the less. Humans. We're all different on a certain degree and I forgot to mention something, WHO cares about you, me or us? No one, we are just matter, so therefore stereotyping is just plain bad if you're very expressive about it.
Do you really think that having sub-categorized races based on humanity is an exeptionally good suggestion? No, we're all the same. The "Bla bla vs Bla bla" is really infuriating, in this senario about you that actually appreciate that way of thinking, congratulations, you just described yourself as an NT, because "NT's are doing that particular act, for example, wanting to be social and fitting in the society". No difference.
People catagorise and label things and people for many reasons, some of which are to better understand them or to make it easier to discuss them. I have been the victim of much stereotyping in the past (and still am) and I have pondered the subject a reasonable bit.
One day I realised that people doing this out of prejudice was completely natural and I should not demonise it. To explain - imagine damn near everything on Earth is new to you. You encounter what you do not yet know to be a switched on electric stove element, it's glowing red colour and the heat it is radiating intrigues you, so you decide to touch it. You are met with pain! You decide pain is not something you like, and decide to move on. In your later travels you encounter another glowing red piece of metal in an entirely different setting, you do not know anything much about it, but in an attempt to understand what it might be your brain draws parallels between it and the stove element - both are the same colour and both radiate heat. You decide not to touch it in case you are once again met with pain. This is prejudice in action and in my opinion it is either the basis of all learning or at least it's practical application! It was indeed prejudice that lead you to decide not to touch that piece of metal but your decision was not wrong at all, it was just the way you understood the situation and applied your past experiences to it. It is best I think to give people the benefit of the doubt (without being a fool about it) but in saying this, everyone has prejudice and that prejudice is not without reason. Try and open people's minds, otherwise try and accept their prejudices and your own.
I'm not advocating someone making their prejudices into other people's problems as is the case with open racism etc. just saying that prejudice itself is not only natural, but a great and useful thing without which we would struggle to function! People on an autism related forum discussing their (probably skewed and biased) view on "neurotypical" people seems to me to have a lot of potential to allow people who otherwise feel alienated to connect and relate to other humans and that is invaluable... telling a "NT" that you think they are evil because they are not autistic on the other hand would be crossing the line and be decidedly less productive and more offensive.
19 May 2014, 2:49 pm
There's a huge lack of awareness in aspies of the crucially determining factor of hierarchy. No one mentioned on this thread that falseness is directly proportional to how much x personally needs y's positive regard. Falseness is not for all people, it's only reserved to those people with power over the quality of your life. If that reporter suddenly won a trillion in the lottery, do you think he'd still be laughing at her bad jokes? No, it'd be the other way round, she'd be laughing at HIS bad jokes. There's a great episode of the Tom and Jerry cartoon that shows this so wonderfully: the dog and the cat manage to get hold of the hammer at different times, and each time one of them has the hammer in hand, the other portrays a fake wide smile to appease him. This scene is in a nutshell what society is all about: hierarchy. And hierarchy means faking niceness to those with power to harm you or advance you.
If you want to belong to society, you have to play its game and apply their rules. You have the choice to remove yourself as much as you can from society. Both options have a big price to pay, neither the faker nor the truth teller is the better man.
At least the fakers don't come to your world and try to play in it by their rules, criticizing yours.
_________________
There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats - Albert Schweitzer
19 May 2014, 3:20 pm
Moondust wrote:
There's a huge lack of awareness in aspies of the crucially determining factor of hierarchy. No one mentioned on this thread that falseness is directly proportional to how much x personally needs y's positive regard. Falseness is not for all people, it's only reserved to those people with power over the quality of your life. If that reporter suddenly won a trillion in the lottery, do you think he'd still be laughing at her bad jokes? No, it'd be the other way round, she'd be laughing at HIS bad jokes. There's a great episode of the Tom and Jerry cartoon that shows this so wonderfully: the dog and the cat manage to get hold of the hammer at different times, and each time one of them has the hammer in hand, the other portrays a fake wide smile to appease him. This scene is in a nutshell what society is all about: hierarchy. And hierarchy means faking niceness to those with power to harm you or advance you.
If you want to belong to society, you have to play its game and apply their rules. You have the choice to remove yourself as much as you can from society. Both options have a big price to pay, neither the faker nor the truth teller is the better man.
At least the fakers don't come to your world and try to play in it by their rules, criticizing yours.
If you want to belong to society, you have to play its game and apply their rules. You have the choice to remove yourself as much as you can from society. Both options have a big price to pay, neither the faker nor the truth teller is the better man.
At least the fakers don't come to your world and try to play in it by their rules, criticizing yours.
Disgusting, pathetic, stupid. Id rather die then give up self respect to appease someone.
You come eye to eye with people in hierarchy. Through expressing yourself freely you should get what you want.
Only genuine people are rock solid.
_________________
In order to prevent being blasted into the stone age by an asteroid we better start colonizing space as soon as possible.
Just look at the dinosaurs, they died out because they didn't have a space program.
19 May 2014, 4:20 pm
Moondust wrote:
There's a huge lack of awareness in aspies of the crucially determining factor of hierarchy. No one mentioned on this thread that falseness is directly proportional to how much x personally needs y's positive regard. Falseness is not for all people, it's only reserved to those people with power over the quality of your life. If that reporter suddenly won a trillion in the lottery, do you think he'd still be laughing at her bad jokes? No, it'd be the other way round, she'd be laughing at HIS bad jokes. There's a great episode of the Tom and Jerry cartoon that shows this so wonderfully: the dog and the cat manage to get hold of the hammer at different times, and each time one of them has the hammer in hand, the other portrays a fake wide smile to appease him. This scene is in a nutshell what society is all about: hierarchy. And hierarchy means faking niceness to those with power to harm you or advance you.
If you want to belong to society, you have to play its game and apply their rules. You have the choice to remove yourself as much as you can from society. Both options have a big price to pay, neither the faker nor the truth teller is the better man.
At least the fakers don't come to your world and try to play in it by their rules, criticizing yours.
If you want to belong to society, you have to play its game and apply their rules. You have the choice to remove yourself as much as you can from society. Both options have a big price to pay, neither the faker nor the truth teller is the better man.
At least the fakers don't come to your world and try to play in it by their rules, criticizing yours.
True. Well written.
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