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Autism and Morality

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Unmixed
Tufted Titmouse
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29 Jun 2014, 2:08 pm

i have been at my job for almost five years. there are several people who do not complete the tasks involved. they do not finish cleaning up, in other words there are simple details like collecting packing slips and dumping the trash cans. packing slips are just pieces of paper at the workstations. these are required for the office to do the billing..[ I work in a 'receiving dept.' at a huge warehouse ]
Last Friday they were in the office fooling around, having a 'good ole time' as i came in to drop off the packing slips i had collected from my end of the building.. their end of the building had the packing slips still at the work stations as well as the full trash cans.
I went into the office and the lead for our shift called me a nilly or something. i was upset that they were in the office laughing and talking while i was still at work finishing up. the lead said to me, 'high five'.. 'don't leave me hanging!'
I feel like a fool for doing the job so thoroughly. They were all in there and I had been out on the job, finishing up.... what kind of person am i? i feel like a fool. feel as though i am a weirdo because i felt so angry... the lead was in there too. i had been out there, doing the work, like a fool.
yes, i am following rules.. but feel so hurt i don't know if i can keep on living life. so many people dont' follow the rules. i feel ashamed for doing it
i feel lonely and this deepens the lonliness
so many people just deepen the lonliness
sorrowful is what i am, so sorrowful
i don't know if i can go on
i want to stop being so alone
i need care and kindness and consideration but have only rejection
so alone am i that i feel like crying a lot
i feel so rejected :help:



jbw
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30 Jun 2014, 7:16 am

Unmixed wrote:
i have been at my job for almost five years. there are several people who do not complete the tasks involved. they do not finish cleaning up, in other words there are simple details like collecting packing slips and dumping the trash cans. packing slips are just pieces of paper at the workstations. these are required for the office to do the billing..[ I work in a 'receiving dept.' at a huge warehouse ]
Last Friday they were in the office fooling around, having a 'good ole time' as i came in to drop off the packing slips i had collected from my end of the building.. their end of the building had the packing slips still at the work stations as well as the full trash cans.
I went into the office and the lead for our shift called me a nilly or something. i was upset that they were in the office laughing and talking while i was still at work finishing up. the lead said to me, 'high five'.. 'don't leave me hanging!'
I feel like a fool for doing the job so thoroughly. They were all in there and I had been out on the job, finishing up.... what kind of person am i? i feel like a fool. feel as though i am a weirdo because i felt so angry... the lead was in there too. i had been out there, doing the work, like a fool.
yes, i am following rules.. but feel so hurt i don't know if i can keep on living life. so many people dont' follow the rules. i feel ashamed for doing it
i feel lonely and this deepens the lonliness
so many people just deepen the lonliness
sorrowful is what i am, so sorrowful
i don't know if i can go on
i want to stop being so alone
i need care and kindness and consideration but have only rejection
so alone am i that i feel like crying a lot
i feel so rejected :help:


You should not be treated the way people treat you at work. Your anger is justified. I would also be angry in this kind of situation.

You are no fool, and you should not be ashamed of yourself for doing proper work. Your colleagues should be ashamed.

Is there anyone outside work who you trust and who may be able to help?

I hope you find some kindness and care here on WP. I can offer a big virtual hug.



Unmixed
Tufted Titmouse
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07 Jul 2014, 6:42 pm

i want to thank you for responding to my post. virtual hug accepted.



B19
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07 Jul 2014, 9:32 pm

It may be that generally, our morality is different because our values are different (from NTs generally).

The big 3 NT values: power, status, money.

The big ASD value: commitment to truth (whether it offends social niceties or not). The truth as one believes it to be, even if "ultimate truth" about something is inaccessible. I think that loyalty is another ASD value, and fairness. (Oh boy, that got me into a lot of trouble when I was young :(.. Openmindedness seems to be an Aspergers value, contrasted to conformity (should have a capital C!) in the NT tribe.

So there is a vast values gap between the two tribes.

Morality is based on values, stems from values, and ultimately as people, we are our values (unless we are social hypocrites, but that's somewhat more common in the other tribe - I think).



timf
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08 Jul 2014, 8:43 am

Aspies live a more intentional life. One result of this is that immoral acts are considered more before they are acted upon. Usually consideration of immorality reveals flaws in the action that leads to its being rejected rather than acted upon.

An intentional life also contributes to the outrage Aspies can feel as a result of injustices to others. An Aspie can more easily understand someone who steals because he is hungry than someone who steals from hungry people just because he is greedy.



jbw
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09 Jul 2014, 6:59 am

B19 wrote:
It may be that generally, our morality is different because our values are different (from NTs generally).

The big 3 NT values: power, status, money.

The big ASD value: commitment to truth (whether it offends social niceties or not). The truth as one believes it to be, even if "ultimate truth" about something is inaccessible. I think that loyalty is another ASD value, and fairness. (Oh boy, that got me into a lot of trouble when I was young :(.. Openmindedness seems to be an Aspergers value, contrasted to conformity (should have a capital C!) in the NT tribe.

So there is a vast values gap between the two tribes.

Morality is based on values, stems from values, and ultimately as people, we are our values (unless we are social hypocrites, but that's somewhat more common in the other tribe - I think).

The three NT values you mention are a major (or even THE main?) source of irritation on both sides in the interaction between neurotypicals and autistics. If you ignore power, status, and money, you are perceived as arrogant, rude, and sometimes worse. I think the autistic approach to morality can be traced back to the autistic approach to perceiving and understanding the world. It is based on first-hand observation and validation, and it assumes that people communicate to exchange knowledge and related evidence, rather than for the purpose of conveying implicit messages about social status or for the purpose of manipulating social status.

Autistics are on a life-long mission to understand the world. Neurotypicals seem to be on a life-long mission to collect power, status, and/or money. No wonder that communication across the gap ranges from extremely difficult to impossible, leading to quite different perceptions of what is "wrong" and what is "right". Because autistics are consciously aware of their unique individual perspective, they also tend to be aware that "wrong" and "right" is matter of individual perspective, and not one of cultural conformance.



GlennBecksTears
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09 Jul 2014, 3:41 pm

nirrti_rachelle wrote:
I've been wondering about what are the differences in moral judgment and development in people on the autism spectrum. My sense of morality has always been strong. Even as a 6 year-old, I found it hard to misbehave like the other kids in the classroom because I couldn't understand why anyone would want to be "bad" on purpose. I also never hit back kids who hit me since it never occurred to me to hurt anyone. The fact that people hurt each other for pleasure has always been a concept I never understood.

I've been looking for research about moral development in people in autism but it seems every article puts a negative spin on it. I'm not comfortable with trusting scientists since they already accused people on the spectrum with lacking empathy which isn't true. But I can't find anything written by autistic people.
This.


_________________
Your Aspie score: 173 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 40 of 200


Magnanimous
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09 Jul 2014, 5:12 pm

I have standards that I live by... but that is all they are: Standards.

I'm strictly amoral.
I'm strictly opposed to morality. It is merely a tool for controlling the weak-minded.
I generally base my judgements on efficiency and practicality instead.



Leigh0810
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14 Aug 2014, 10:22 am

Recently a 17 yo family member who was diagnosed with Asperbergers/high functioning Autism since he was much younger had a sexual encounter with a 12 yo friend of another family member. Is this something that can occur bc the Aspie is unable to understand morals and recognize how wrong a 17 yo being sexually interested in a 12 yo is? His case manager is giving therapist info to the parents to address this issue. Would he not grasp the gravity of the situation bc he is immature bc of his Aspies? I am still learning about this diagnosis and I am trying to understand. I don't want to be the bad guy by not allowing him in my home bc of concerns I have with my own family.

Thank you.